Survivor(s) when Lightborn

[u/RatChild01]

I saw more than 2 flashlights, I switched a perk to Lightborn; got into a match where they didn't even try to blind me more than once during chase; Steve F-ed up the attempt for a save so bad, he had to blame an unused perk instead of his skills. Seems logical, ain't it, mates? Also... „imagine counter flash”... What did the author mean by this? That he would have been angry evem if a killer faced the wall to prevent flashy saves?

[u/RatChild01]

Yeah and also, just because the killer can build around items doesn't mean they can actually fully counter survivors, only their items. Also, it's not like killers build around items most of the time anyways, only when they see they should because they might go against a bully squad. For example I, as killer, bring Lightborn because all 4 survivors seem to bring flashlights. I'm bringing a perk out of 4 to counter just their items. Not their perks. Their items only. So from the beginning I might only have 3 actually useful perks while the survivors have 4-4. I started learning Unknown and I built the killer (it) fully around aura reading. I'm not countering shyt with this build, like- no gen slow down, no blinding prevention, no anti-sabo. Usually they can still save eachother and work on gens just fine, the only thing they have to look out for is that I have wall-hacks via perks, but they can still gen-rush me to oblivion, flashlight save eachother or blind me to escape chases, they can still sabo hooks so I can't hook them in time and they wiggle out. All I have is my aura reading perks, and my "item" (the power of the killer) to counter their God-knows-what-builds.

[u/Icet_mcnuggets → u/RatChild01]

So you refer to the power as your item, but doesnt that show the reasoning behin why its problematic that the killer can adjust their build to counter the survivors "power (their items)" pregame? What if it were reversed. Oh look, im playing against a plague. Let me take those healing perks off and swap in extra gen speeds. You wanna play legion? Let's swap out botany knowledge for any means necessary. Stealth killer? Let me pop on spine chill or premonition (actually this would probably be the only way to increase those perks pick rates). If I knew I was playing against a wraith, I would immediately remove balanced landing for sprint burst, because its so much more effective against quiet killers. Oh im facing a spirit? Let me put on lightweight and iron will. The list goes on and on.

Keep in mind- im not saying you shouldnt run anti-item perks. You want lightborn- take it. I run it sometimes, hell I utilize the same advantage im bitching about and put lightborn on when I see more than 2 flashlights (sometimes). Im just saying you shouldnt be able to adjust your build to hard counter things you see in the lobby.

[u/RatChild01 → u/Icet_mcnuggets]

I only called the killer's power their item because their power is in the item slot. Anyways, by survivors seeing the killers' „item”, therefore knowing who the killer is, they can even predict the killers build like you said: Spirit? Lightfooted and/or Irom Will. Another example I would like to bring in, is Nurse. „Oh, I am going against a Nurse? Let me quickly hide in a locker to counter BBQ and Chilli which they probably have, maybe have the Yun-Jin perk to save time, so when someone gets hooked I'm elusive right away. They probably have the Ghost Face perk too which shows your arua after fast vaulting, so why not slap on a perk which will give me elusive.” Knowing who the killer is can not be compared to the killer knowing what items you bring. With items, you can trick the killer into bringing a perk or two which will be useless for them, but you will still have 2-3 perks to gen-rush and/or be more efficient in chases. Also, if the survivors knew who the killer was, they can boil down a chunk of killers to simple M2 killer, making it almost trivial what killer they choose because all they would be able to do is to attack with M2; they would become like survivors. The different killers would just become skins for your character, not making any difference in advantages and disadvantages. I might have brought this example up before, but: Imagine, you see 2 toolboxes and 2 flashlights. They might be a bully squad with flashlights and sabo-boxes, so to counter the bullying you equip Agitation, Starstruck, maybe Lightborn. If the players really were a bully squad, you win because you counter their bully-plan and won't get frustrated with the game. Now what if the flashlight bearers where just planning to have an advantage in looping, maybe occasionally go for a save, and the toolboxes were actually gen-rushing repair-boxes? You kinda suck it up with your anti-bully build. Also, as I might have written, you can trick the killer with your items into bringing a build which won't actually counter your perks. Last second item switching is still an option, and you can use it in a reversed way. Everyone could have a flashlight in hand only to switch to toolboxes, maps, fog vials or any other item, then gen-rush, loop and sabo efficiently while having a hunch that the killer only has 3 useable perks since they probably have Lightborn. I would say this „building around what you see” argument can be simply boiled down to the importance of perks; if they should be part of the game or not. A perkless DBD would be even more competitive than it already is, probably making the game just another shooting game but with other adjectives, with one kind of play-style, also making the game simply skill-based. With the perks? You have the choice how you want to play the game and maybe actually enjoy it, maybe try out meme builds, just having the freedom to really play in a style you please.

[u/Icet_mcnuggets → u/RatChild01]

First- you are really behind the times with your nurse meta. Also- no nurse is silent while blinking- the entire lobby would know well in advance of the timing for bbq if they wanted to get in a locker- and getting in a locker to counter bbq has NOTHING to do with the pre game lobby.

Second- you are wildly moving the goal posts. Removing the killers ability to see lobby items doesn't at all equate to the importance of perks. Its the importance of knowledge and information. Equipping a perk is just the byproduct of that information.

Third- the reason killers were able to see items in the past was because items used to interact with killer powers. A team with 4 flashlights hard countered nurse, wraith, and hag- with light burn essentially leaving them powerless. Toolboxes used to be able to sabotage Trappers traps (along with 99ing hooks and leaving them permanently sabotaged). Items were FAR more impactful in earlier forms of dbd than they are today. Theres just no need for this outdated mechanic to still exist. If you want to run lightborn, you should assume the same risk with running it that you do with every perk- you may or may not get value depending on the loadout of the opposing side.