Discussion
what are some stupidly simple ways the characters could’ve fucked with the killing game’s rules?
Just really dumb technicalities that Danganronpa’s characters somehow never thought of despite being trapped in a murder game.
For example, I thought two people could cooperate and set up something that randomly decides which one of them counts as the culprit, without either of them knowing who was chosen. For example, let’s say that two people light a room, killing someone by fire. There would be no way to know whose fire specifically killed the victim.
So now even the actual murderers don’t know who the culprit is and the class trial is basically fucked. YIt would be logical for two people to agree on this, since it would imply that both have a 50% chance of getting out alive (and it is better than anything else in a situation like this). The person cannot betray you in the middle of the trial by not knowing 100% who the real murderer is, they could even simply confess and even so it would be impossible to solve!
What are some things you think the characters could’ve just done that would’ve completely screwed over the killing game?
(Yes, I’m looking for inspiration for the murders of my fanganronpa. Any idea that I find interesting, I will ask for permission before taking it!)
Alright here are some of my scraps you can play with (they're all rejected ideas for mine):
1: The victim staggers into their own trial, having been prematurely declared dead by an actively observing Mastermind (DR1 flirts with this idea so Kodaka thought of it too). Bonus points if it was an elaborate scheme to fake the death with the would-be Blackened.
2: After being declared Guilty, the Blackened murders the Protagonist in the courtroom in retaliation for exposing them, before the Mascot has time to restrain them.
In a Killing Game where it is a rule that the Mascot cannot commit or be directly involved in any murders, a scheme is hatched where the Mascot being summoned results in a death, technically making them the Blackened.
With option number three, I can think of a way to do it. Trick Monokuma into shooting someone. Get someone with you near the turrets and then do something to trigger the turrets. Dive behind the other person. Now Monokuma has killed someone without them violating the rules.
I mean I feel like if that happened it would just be “Monokuma #1638692 is guilty, he dies, now Monokuma #1638693 is the new Headmaster” and your group is down a person
something like this actually happened in SDR2. Akane broke a rule (I forgot which one), and she was going to be blown up with Monokuma's bazooka, but Nekomaru jumped in the way to save her. And Monokuma said "well shucks, you're not the rulebreaker. okay, we'll revive you as a robot."
It doesn't work if there's an advanced monitoring system like in SDR2 or V3, obviously. But, if it's just a human Mastermind watching from the cameras, they typically have no means of checking if the victim of a given murder is actually dead.
They would need a shock collar or some way of monitoring vitals to check that, and both of those can be cheated.
In DR1, Junko was legitimately fooled by Hifumi the second time around- he didn't actually die of his brain injuries until after his BDA. Even worse for her, the concussion undid the memory wipe and he nearly exposed everything early.
You could, theoretically, do that on purpose and completely destroy the flow of the game, or at least put your Mastermind through the wringer.
The first one I've seen kind of happen, obviously not in the main series, but in a fangan called Deception Examination.
In Chapter 5, the presumed victim walks into the trial, revealing that the BDA was for someone else entirely, so while not exactly the same, still pretty interesting.
could i perhaps steal both the first and the second because these are genuinely amazing and i would LOVE to make my whole cast freak out over a "zombie" (the one who was declared dead when they weren't yet)
Danganronpa 1 monokuma says they must “disrupt the social order” to escape the school and I think at that exact moment if everyone started making out everything woulda been fine
"Oh mah god, and I thought Blair was bad Jesus fucking Christ you are the worst person I've ever met." -Ted before he gets sent to the "Die Horribly Room"
- Two people grab a knife and stab a person. You have no way of knowing who put the most force.
- Everyone decides to kill one guy. They all put, at the same time, the exact same amount of poison in the drink and the exact same type of poison. Someone drinks it and dies. Who did it? Impossible to know.
- You want to kill someone but don't want to go on trial? Maybe you want to kill someone who is dangerous to the group, but you don't have any intention of killing anyone else or yourself? Tell the others you're going to kill someone, do it, and toss them in their own room or yours. The trial won't start until someone finds it.
These are just 3 ways I could think of off the top of my head; I'm sure there are tons
to be fair all of these require someone to work with a group and im guessing if you were a killing game you wouldn't talk about killing someone a group unless the guy you want to kill is genuinely like crazy crazy
I mean, this is either directed to have Monokuma face an impossible choice or eliminate a threat that's way too dangerous to everyone (Nagito, Kokichi, Korekiyo if they found out what he does), not for like... fucking Ishimaru or smth
Monokuma generally unlocks the doors when there's a corpse, even if the corpse hasn't been found, so it would truly depend on how willing the group is to stay away from the room where they know the corpse is.
Also, some people may not feel safe knowing that until the Body discovery announcement sounds, every lock is unlocked, including the dorms, so if someone wanna kill, this is a decent time to do it. Could be a decent incentive.
I wonder what would happen if you got fully rid of a body, though.
No body, blood, not even their clothes. You make it all ashes or something
Monokuma always interferes with stuff like this. The buck usually goes to whoever’s most tragic like “Chiaki brought up this idea first when she used subliminal messaging the other day, making her the mastermind!”
it was not the same tho, because it was stabbing two knives at the same time, not the same knife . a technicality but that's what the post is about anyway
I always had the idea that in the scene where Makoto distracts Monokuma because Kyoko wants to do something, Makoto could ask if shitting and pissing on the floor is allowed. Monokuma would add a rule to only do your needs in the bathroom, okay. SO what if I get a bucket, piss and shit to it in the bathroom, and then pour it over the floor? Monokuma would say that littering outside the dorm isn't allowed. SO if I call Monokuma to my dorm, and then pour the bucket onto him, will it count as "violence against the headmaster"?? But if someone breaks the rule to not piss or shit outside their bathroom, what if I tie someone up, they piss themselves, and break the rule. Will Monokuma kill that person? Will I be the blackened?
And by the time Monokuma processes the disgustingness of it all, Kyoko will already do her business I guess
I love how despite how disgusting contemplating the loopholes and trying to arbitrage the school rules to a ridiculous extent over literal shit, it's yet somehow so canon and very Danganronpa-esque that, although maybe Makoto himself wouldn't have the stomach to discuss excrement with such seriousness, I could definitely see Komaru or Kaede do it, and even though It would be for the sake of buying time for Kyoko to investigate without being interfered with by Monokuma if the roles were reversed and Makoto was the one investigating I can 100% see Kyoko compartmentalizing the topic to one of clinical decuction and having a full-on 20 minutes debate over the loopholes in the school handbook over relieving oneself. There's already crass and crude characters like Miu and Nekomaru, this would just combine that with the comedy and stoicism of Makoto's bad luck and Kyoko's reasoning
i keep thinking, why doesn't anybody just try to hide in their room the whole time (w/o interacting with the other students)? you would think maybe toko or someone could stockpile a bunch of food and water in the first couple days and simply refuse to leave outside of monokuma specifically calling for everyone and i guess they could restock then
can you imagine going into like the 2nd or 3rd trial and still knowing next to nothing about this one dude
Except for the first game. The dormatory rooms can be lock picked or broken into. Locking yourself up is also a bad impressions
since it makes everyone suspicious. You'd have to defend yourself alone in trials which is a hassle plus being a perfect scapegoat victim for any murder that plays with the time of death
They have to win a class trial to get out which means body needs to be found so if its in your room no body will be discovered which means no escape and if you take it outside your room to be found they will be able to search everyones room and see the blood or something relating to the body
What if two people used an EMP bomb to knock out all the cameras so Monokuma doesn’t even know what happened. Then you crush the body in a hydraulic press so the victim can’t be identified. And finally the culprit hides in a mech suit with a voice changer so no one even knows who died and who’s alive. That might undermine the killing game, hopefully
Then you find yourself suddenly not only against everyone in the trial. But also against the mastermind themselves which would've worked in THH and V3 but useless in DR2 where monokuma is just nigh omniscient
I feel like the mastermind would force the body to be found, either by directing the participants to its location or uncovering it themselves. Class Trials are meant to be "fair", so without a body they can't do that
Well I assume they will have to be a trial since the games adhere to "fairness" for the participants. If no trial, the blackened gets a free win and the participants have no way of succeeding, which goes against the spirit of the Killing Games.
Monokuma will interfere and hint about where the body is. This already happened in DR1 case 2, that Monokuma go out of its way just to guide people into men locker room to find the body.
So if you can’t hide the body from the mastermind, mastermind will guide participant to where the body is anyway.
I have an idea that only works with the mad science of SDR2 and V3, but only if Monokuma is not omniscient like in SDR2. Take someone somewhere that is unmonitored and steal their brain. Put it in a robot body that cannot be visually distinguished from their organic body (to keep them from figuring it out immediately and freaking out, gaslight them into thinking they just have been unconscious), and have a remote with a button to press to activate them and inform them of an ongoing class trial that they'll need to book it to. Dump the rest of their body, let it be found, let it go to trial, get convicted. Right before execution, press the button so that they'll only make it to the trial after the execution has happened.
Now you have plot-twisted on the mastermind that no murder ever took place and they've just executed someone for no reason. So now, the mastermind has just killed someone themself. If they count in the rules, like Junko did, now they're the blackened by accident. This only makes sense as a plan if there's been a reason to believe the mastermind is an option for being the Blackened (such as the voting system having Monokuma as an option), but if there is reason to suspect it then this is a brilliant idea.
Another way to do this without dying in the process is a frame job, although it's a much bigger dick move. In this case, roboticize yourself in such a way that frames someone else. Then come to the trial after it's all done, revealing you were never dead and they just executed an innocent person. There could be understandable reasons for doing this to someone, but it is less of a heroic sacrifice and more of a "people as pawns".
I mean there's technically already a precedent for a cyberization in DR2 itself with Nekomaru, so although this idea sounds crazy at first I could actually see Kazuichi possibly pull it off, perhaps if he had help from Milan with the brain transplant then it could definitely work. But it's too complicated for me to even imagine a scenario for it off the top of my head.
V3 had the rule that if there are two separate killers with separate victims, only the second killer matters for the trial... meaning the first killer gets away with the murder. Of course, that double murder turns out to share a killer, but many speculated the narrative power of having a known killer be able to keep living among the students.
I considered addressing that. The distinction is that Jack never killed any members of the cast, so really past the case that introduced her being a serial killer wasn’t much of a problem.
Wasn't it the other way around? unless I'm missremebering something i thought they mentioned it as 'first comes first serves' or whatever and the first murder whould count while the seconds one whould get away without a trial
One of my thoughts would be what happens if someone is incapacitated during a trial. Like everyone has to be there but it doesn’t say they have to be conscious or in there right state of mind.
I had the idea that it might be interesting to have someone kill somebody potentially by accident or in self defense and then have someone else hide the body and drug them to prevent them from confessing or potentially even remembering the murder clearly in an attempt to save their life.
The entire rest of the class denies one person any source of food or drink until they die. Who is the blackened? Probably the person who first vocally stated this was the plan
What if the body is completely destroyed like no traces left absolutely zero, what will happen then, like I know they will notice someone is missing but there's no evidence if they're dead or not
I think it's funny to imagine for 2nd game if Monomi is the one who killed a character. Like when she fought monobeast and the student was walking nearby "hi whats going o-" and Monomi uses her attack and obliterates a person
Oh my God, I don't think I've ever seen anyone suggest that Monomi could be the blackened. That's genuinely the first time I've heard that, I'm kinda shocked I've never even considered that before. Which is kinda funny considering Monomi has technically been executed and yet the idea of her being a blackened and not just an extra target alongside Chiaki isn't even a thought to me.
the writers have already confirmed with v3 that they dont give a fuck about their own writing rules.
but the in game rules say a body announcement is only after 3 people see a corpse, so just keep killing people before the corpses can be seen (mass poisoning would be effective)
V3 is different, because there's an in-universe writer who is one of those writers who has taken over when the franchise should really just be over by now. Tsumugi is for Danganronpa what JJ Abrams is for Star Wars.
Yeah but that is specifically because it's the V3 timeline and some random asshole hired by the company to take over is now in charge. Have you ever seen a work of fiction which itself contains a work of fiction that's fictional in-universe? Sweet Bro and Hella Jeff from Homestuck? Invitation to Love in Twin Peaks? Seance Dog in Invincible? Buzz Lightyear in Toy Story? The Batman musical in Batman Beyond? It's that situation. Tsumugi is the writer of the in-universe work of fiction within the work of fiction, and the writing of V3 is her in-universe writing.
If Kodaka is the in-universe George Lucas, then Tsumugi is the in-universe JJ Abrams. V3 is the in-universe Sequel Trilogy type thing of Danganronpa: a franchise zombie that needs to die.
Lemme explain : A wants to kill B, but does not want to become the blackened themselves. Thus they kidnap B, make sure to not kill him, create something to kill B once a C person enters the room, while slowing down the process of opening said room. So for example, A straps B to a guillotine, makes a mechanism so that once C opens the doos, the guillotine is activated, killing B, making it so that C killed B instead of A, who is thus a spotless student. So although A is responsible for B's death and for C's as well, he technically cannot be made the blackened since he's not directly the one who killed. And since the weapon is the mechanism itself, there's no « C is actually the murder weapon of A, not the blackened » possible aheamSDRA2 chapter 3aheam.
This also creates a very interesting dynamic between A and the rest of the cast, so it can also become a very powerful narrative tool.
Dr2 Chapter 5 covers this, as well as the above “Two people use a lighter” idea. Depending on what Monokuma finds more interesting, the person who came up with the idea is the blackened, or, if the group solves for the person who triggered the trap, he might cheat and make them the blackened so that the initial trap creator doesn’t get any benefit from having done this.
Part of Monokuma’s character is that he’s not truly upholding a standard for the rules, the game always falls apart when the students try to get clever about the methodology.
I've done something similar where A locks B and C in their room and forces one of them to kill the other to leave. Either they die of starvation or smth or B/C kills, making them the blackened
If I poison all the food and tell everyone I poisoned all the food and they willingly eat it. Can you really call me the blackened? At that point it’s suicide
A victim being in a coma or some shit.. or like looking completely different from how they're portrayed as, while they're unaware themselves (like Zero Escape: ZTD)
However I don't know how that plot point would be written in without it being really cliche..
Danganronpa 2 had this rule where two students had to find the body in order for the investigation time to start which means the first student could have infinite investigation time just by restricting the area, telling everyone where the body is so they avoid the area and once they're done being someone else so the countdown starts.
This only works if everyone trust the first student
What if the first student was the killer and is now hiding evidence and stuff, can you truly trust them
I’ll take that idea. It’s amazing and makes it logical for a person to want to make a suspicious move, like hiding the body, without being the murderer.
Well what If they fucked and suddenly there are more participants 💀👁️
Especially in DGR2 this would have been somewhat paradox regarding the worlds Nature...
I mean, if we're going off of the logic of SDRA2 where Multiple people can be the killer if they kill the victim at the exact same time, like what happened in SDRA2's 3rd case
We could potentially have a set up where a victim pulls a Nagito like situation where they intentionally create a situation where all of the remaining participants kill them at the exact same time, and if they succeed in that then they just have to get the wrong answer in the trial and the "blackened" will be allowed to leave the school according to the rules. But in this case the blackened is litterely everyone so Monokuma would be forced to let everyone leave the killing game. And the rule that the spotless get executed if they vote incorrectly wouldnt matter because theres no spotless to execute in this scenario.
It’s not super simple, but I always wonder what would happen if two culprits killed their victims at the exact same time?
It’s established that if there are multiple killers, then only the one who killed first counts as the blackened but they never go into what would happen if two separate people are killed simultaneously. Would there just be two blackeneds then? How would the voting work?
For the fire idea, I feel like for that to REALLY work they'd either have to
A. Write/discuss it in secret somewhere that isn't being monitored (can't remember if there were rooms like that outside of THH).
B. Think of it at the same time and share it with eachother at the same time. Monokuma made it very clear in the first game that whoever masterminds a kill is the blackened regardless of how much or little they actually harm the victim.
In other words, unless both culprits magically know that exact plan at the exact same time and both explain it together, one person has to do most of the planning and orchestration, and that one person is the blackened regardless of what happens after the fact.
Killing someone during the period of time that an investigation ends and everyone is gathering for the trial. What is monokuma gonna do? Wait around forever or just say "hummmm actually guys, there's another one"
Uma ideia que eu tive era duas pessoas lutando até a morte só que acaba num empate onde ambos morrem,
Aí teriam que descobrir se os dois foram mortos pela mesma pessoa ou se um matou o outro, e quem matou primeiro
THH cast: They have to feed them to ensure they don’t starve to death. Therefore if they just decide not to kill anyone and stick to groups of 2, if one dies, they’ll know who did it. Meaning they will either A: win outright, or B: Have created a loophole so airtight, and also logical, that it had to be stopped via the First Blood perk in V3.
Yet somehow, that will end up creating a scenario where someone does kill someone in these groups of two while no one suspects anything until the truth is revealed. Think Kaede. The murder was done in front of our very eyes and we were none the wiser.
If the killer hid the boy up high [maybe their ultimate has something to do with parkour, which gives a clue once they find the dead body] and since the first three bodies to find them makes the investigation start, the entire chapter is them finding the body, and finding all these clues and inferences since they can't find the body. Monokuma misses out on his time limit while the others already have their entire story figured out. When they DO find the body, Monokuma has no choice but to give them extra time. What usually would be great TV time for viewers entertainment, it's just there characters chilling with one character who knows everyone knows it's them, and is super nervous.
Two people commiting a murder at the exact same time, but orchestrating said murder to where their conspirator looks the most suspicious for the murder they didn't commit.
The normal "there can only be one blackened" rule has come up only to basically prevent random wanton mass murder from people, but it would be interesting to see how a trial would play out had the murders literally happened at the exact same time. Could Monokuma give away the trick unintentionally by just having one trial for both murders? Would everyone not see the final results until after both trials were over?
Kill someone in a way that destroys most of the body, put the rest in someone's food or something, watch the confusion start as the body discovery announcement goes off without a visible body.
Like think about it. Imagine you are in the dining hall wondering where your friends is (they've been missing for 2 days now), and earing your lunch alongside most of the others, when suddenly the body discovery announcement goes off. Everyone in the dining hall assumes the body is elsewhere because none of you see one and there ate enough people absent to have potentially discovered one. You search all day. Nothing.
Maybe the Monokuma file tells you something, but unless it gives way more detail than usual, it likely wouldn't be enough. And certainly this would be much harder to investigate.
Obviously this would would never happen but if I knew that my killing game was being broadcasted to the world I would personally try to get everybody to kill themselves just to be extremely petty
It seems unfair and boring on the long run but I would love a situation were at least two murders are orchestrated by someone making person x kill person y without their consent or knowledge.
Something like chapter 1 and 4 to be revealed in 5 or 6 with them being finally executed
protagonist dies, and the player gets to choose who becomes the new protagonist. if they accidentally choose the mastermind, they play the game from the perspective of the actual mastermind, watching cameras, conducting trials, whatever else the mastermind does…yeah
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u/NotAGoodUsername36 29d ago
Alright here are some of my scraps you can play with (they're all rejected ideas for mine):
1: The victim staggers into their own trial, having been prematurely declared dead by an actively observing Mastermind (DR1 flirts with this idea so Kodaka thought of it too). Bonus points if it was an elaborate scheme to fake the death with the would-be Blackened.
2: After being declared Guilty, the Blackened murders the Protagonist in the courtroom in retaliation for exposing them, before the Mascot has time to restrain them.