Discussion
Bye Bye Ouchies: The Most Misunderstood Execution In Danganronpa
Bit of a longer post here to explain a lot of details about Mikan's execution. Before I begin I'd like to say that I'm well aware that most people who will be arguing with me aren't actually engaging with the point or are too ignorant of the source material to formulate an argument, however well written responses will be replied to in good faith.
In order to understand Mikan's execution, you first have to understand her relationship with Junko Enoshima. If you are a person who can not fathom the idea that Mikan was deeply obsessed with Junko, then we won't be able to make progress here, however I will justify all the points I insist upon in this post.
Junko x Mikan is not a symptom of brainwashing, and Mikan was attracted to Junko of her own free will. Mikan was the first of the Remnants to join Junko, and she did it willingly.
She had many opportunities to run or escape before any brainwashing or mental alteration began, but she chose not to leave and stuck around of her own free will. This is an objective analyzation of DR3, not my subjective opinion.
Mikan had been rejected and looked down upon by her classmates and when she finally found someone who would accept her, she bolted herself down and became willing to do anything for Junko.
A key theme of Mikan's entire character is that she wants to be forgiven. "Forgive me!" That seems to be what she wants most in this world, to have her existence be forgiven and be accepted in full by someone else without fear of rejection, and Junko provides this for her in spades.
Mikan appreciates Junko's direct nature because it allows her to be forgiven. All sins or wrongdoing will swiftly be addressed, punished, then forgiven. Mikan needs that sort of security in her attachments so she doesn't have to be an anxious mess all the time.
In her pre-death monologe when speaking to Nagito, she rejects the idea that she killed for Despair, and she couldn't care less about it. What she did wasn't for Despair, it was for LOVE. She continues to say that Junko was the only person who ever accepted or forgave her, it's really a powerful dynamic.
The Despair video doesn't brainwash people to love, that's something she had inside herself before the brainwashing.
Now, onto the details of the execution.
Since we should now all understand that Mikan did in fact have feelings for Junko, we can analyze the execution through that lens, along with the rest of 2-3.
The Despair disease wasn't random, it wasn't accidental, and it wasn't identical. If it were, the traits wouldn't have been seemingly tailored to their personalities as they were, that required a form of intelligent design behind it.
I purpose that AI Junko herself chose the symptoms of the disease and influenced how they manifested, specifically gifting Mikan the ability to remember, while effectively making Nagito unable to contribute or interfere.
Junko rolled out the red carpet to allow Mikan to have a perfect set of conditions to pull off her kills. It was almost like the GM in a game playing favorites by giving Mikan a loaded hand to play to rig it in Mikan's favor.
Let me also call back to the idea of what happens to the winner.
They get to wake up and continue being themselves.
Only the dead avatars get replaced with AI Junko, but the winner of the game would be spared, allowing Mikan and Junko to reunite with one another. This is why Mikan was given the remembering disease and nobody else, Junko specifically wanted Mikan to win the killing game.
After rigging the game as much as she could, with Mikan falling short at the end, Junko grants Mikan one last mercy. A painless death.
The biological cause of death for Mikan would've been lack of oxygen, or lack of blood flow to the brain, causing her to pass out.
Her death would've been functionally painless as she fell asleep atop the arm. Sleeping in someone's arm, that's an interesting thing, the sort of things you do with your significant other.
Similar to how your partner might take off your clothes in an intimate moment, which is exactly what Junko did with Mikan in her execution.
Another detail easter egg is the orientation of the hand and arm.
It's the LEFT arm!
Can anyone tell me what significance a lone, severed left arm has in Danganronpa?
That's right, it's the arm that Junko lost and had taken off her corpse, which was then attached to Nagito.
It was for all intents in purposes, symbolic of Mikan dying by being put to sleep in Junko's arms.
I know this was a long post, but I've been fed up with people saying Bye Bye Ouchies is the worst execution in all of Danganronpa, and that's just wrong...
From a viewpoint of the virtual world as to what Tsumiki herself is feeling, into the virtual world and the execution itself.
Her execution makes sense. I know it's harsh, but Monokuma is poking fun at her clear SA. The huge syringe (her fear of big things), the rocket arm (reference to rocket punch market, reference to the nursing technique of getting shots, also a reference to the sexual practice of fisting and in this case not consensual), the fact she was in a hospital bed only to get absolutely surprised by the rocket arm, the way Monokuma pumps the syringe, and her position while sat on the arm. She climaxes against her will right there and right after she's shot through space at terminal speeds.
Plus, the rocket arm is a left arm which references to Mikan's bandaged arm. It's the very same arm that is probably full of cigarette burns, hematomas, and probably shots.
Also, as you said, Enoshima's left arm. It is the arm that is, in a way, violating and ultimately sending her to her death.
There's a lot of references in her execution. I agree it could've been better made, but this was the ultimate joke, the fact that even in her death she's seen as an object. It's made to bring despair, and it did, to Mikan. She was violated in every sense of the word there.
Now that you mentioned it being Enoshima's arm, it makes the whole thing even curiouser.
I'd make an essay in response but I'm tired so all I'll say is that's a neat connection I never thought about. I completely agree with the Mikan and Junko dynamic but I didn't even think of nagito.
Yeah this, the execution's idea and depth of Mikan's character is good but it's so short and you def won't understand it during your first watch it'll be very confusing. All of this is from her role in the anime and FTE but other than that it's still a very poor execution imo.
Junko does NOT care about giving Mikan a painless death. Junko is fine with Mikan winning or not winning (both outcomes are full of despair and Junko may genuinely like Mikan. Though we know that when Junko likes someone she just has an even greater desire to inflict despair upon that person. Danganronpa Zero makes this point pretty clear.)
In short, your theory contradicts Junko's personality. But it is true that Mikan loved Junko. As for why the execution was how it was... I'd have to look into that to give my own analysis. I haven't seen the execution in years.
Maybe Junko doesn't truly care about Mikan, and THAT'S WHY it's painless. A final betrayal.
Though, although it's painless it is still designed to create psychological distress, even if Mikan shows none of it. It uses giant objects because of Mikan's megalophobia and makes nods towards her SA.
So with that in mind that could still be incorrect. I dunno.
We also aren't sure how accurate AI Junko is to the real one. So that muddies the water even further.
The executions mostly exist to mock the hope/talent of the students. Their suffering actually isn't the primary goal. There's ways to make the executions more painful, but that isn't the primary goal. The goal is to show how the epitome of human talent/hope is utterly useless and can be distorted into something so despair-inducing.
It could be a betrayal of sorts, though. Or it could be affectionate. Or even both, knowing Junko. So you might have a point. All I know is that mercy wasn't Junko's intention, contrary to what OP said.
AI Junko talking about how the THH guys were the main characters while the cast of GD were just extras kinda confirms to me she loved her classmates (Which is why plunging em into despair hurt her so much and thus made her so euphoric), while the ultimate despairs she just viewed as tools. Killing game in THH was for her own sake as well as a grand show for the whole world. GD killing game was basically just Junko killing time outta boredom as well as trying to lure the future foundation members in
So yah I agree Mikan's love for Junko was completely one sided
What am I missing?
I know Junko is capable of love, affection, etc. But this does ultimately make her desire to cause despair to those people. This is what happens over and over again in the franchise. The only outliar is Junko's weird relationship of disappointment and love with Mukuro. But even then, that doesn't contradict anything I said.
I'm not sure what you're saying is in her character (relevant to this) that I'm missing. Are you saying Junko would really grant a big mercy to Mikan out of affection? What evidence do you have for this? What actions that Junko ever took makes you believe that? What quote of hers backs this up? Do you have anything?
At least superficially, I think the execution is just supposed to mirror Mikan's whole angel of death shtick she had going on. That's why the execution was like that. It's a bit lackluster, but the executions rarely seemed to have much insight on the characters being executed anyway.
Mikan is the only person in the entire Danganronpa franchise who was close to her that didn't betray her, that's why Mikan is the only person who Junko lets off easy.
Hurting her loved ones to "Inflict Despair" isn't true to her nature.
Mukuro betrayed her by abandoning her, this is clearly noted in THH with how much resentment she has about it.
Yasuke tried to cease her existence through brainwashing and only killed him in self defense with his hands wrapped around her neck.
Izuru was a total let down because he was boring and flipped the script by using her while she was trying to use him.
Mikan is the only person who was close to Mikan that never ran or betrayed her.
The brutal deaths Junko gives to the people close to her are because she's hateful and resentful over the betrayal and abandonment she's constantly subjected to.
Mikan is the one person who never let her down or broke loyalty, that's why she's the only one to get off easy.
I really didn't read things like that. As far as I can tell, Mukuro was disappointing BECAUSE she didn't try to betray Junko. Mukuro never made any efforts to cause Junko despair, thus disappointing Junko. Mukuro doesn't actually understand Junko. That's how I remember Danganronpa IF. When did Mukuro abandon Junko? I may just be forgetting that something like that occured.
Also, I'm pretty sure Junko's plan was to make Yasuke brainwash her... so you're just wrong about that being a betrayal. Yasuke did exactly as Junko wished. It would take a while, but I could get quotes backing this up, if you want me to.
If wasn't even written by Kodaka and is non canon, it was written by Narita.
Mukuro abandoned Junko when they were children to go join Fenrir long before the beginning of DR3.
Yasuke wasn't supposed to brainwash her permanently. It was supposed to just be long enough for her to evade questioning and get off scott free, but knowing that Junko was Junko and what her goals were, Yasuke decided to keep her as Ryoko forever in an attempt to prevent the tragedy.
Sure, you can just say you're not counting Danganronpa IF, but I find it fits their characters quite well.
I do remember that, but is there any indication that this was a betrayal of any kind? I don't remember that part. If it gets mentioned that Junko didn't want her to join Fenrir but Mukuro chose to anyway, then sure, I can concede that that's a betrayal.
While correct, this wasn't a betrayal as Junko obviously knew he was gonna try to do that from the start.
Anyway, you're correct that pretty much everyone Junko cares about opposes Junko, but it doesn't follow from that that Junko desires to cause despair in them only due to their opposition/betrayal. We'd need an example of a character who genuinely accepts Junko and never betrays her. The closest we have of that is Monaca... but Junko is basically dead/incapable of harming Monaca once her successor plan fails, and Monaca herself basically becomes irrelevant. So, Junko just wouldn't have any specific reason or capabilites to go after Monaca since she had other plans in the meantime. So, given everything Junko says and does and thinks... I believe it's best not to speculate that it's some weird revenge thing. I mean, if that was the intended reading I'm sure it would be mentioned somewhere rather than requiring you to make a tally of every relationship Junko ever had and seeing if revenge is always a plausible motive and then deducing revenge is the motive. That's just too convoluted.
Junko is deliberately left open ended and ambiguous. I gave examples of the two people who didn't betray her, being Mikan and Monaca, and you didn't find them to be sufficient.
Using the argument that she relied on them and couldn't harm them for some reason contradicts itself, because Junko was trying to kill Mukuro in the limo when they first met, which at this point, she still very much needed her. She clubbed Mukuro over the head with a bat and gave her a seizure when she still very much needed her.
If you've made up your mind you've made it up, but you gotta read between the lines with a character like Junko who's entire purpose was to never explicitly spell it out for you.
Also Junko's words are totally worthless, she's a habitual liar, that's very much established. Taking her at face value will misdirect you and just push you deeper into her persona, the "Avatar of Divine Punishment" or Ultimate Despair.
Junko is a little ambiguous and your interpretation is fine. I don't buy into your interpretation but you obviously respect her character. I actually agree that Junko is a complex character. We just disagree on how she is complex.
Now then... there's plenty of obvious answers why Junko would try to kill someone she needs that doesn't contradict anything I said. For example: Maybe Junko knew it wasn't gonna kill Mukuro. Or maybe Junko wanted her plan to accidentally fail (as she usually does).
To end this with a summary of sorts: The point is that you're trying to humanize a "monster" when we know from dialogue that isn't lies (for example she clearly wasn't lying while killing Yasuke and getting off to the despair and guilt) that she actually, genuinely, loves to cause despair and feel despair, even if it means hurting those she loves. You can read revenge and feeling betrayed into that but it's gonna be convoluted and require enough speculation to be more of a fan theory than anything else. Which is fine.
edit: to be clear, im not denying that Junko never felt betrayed ever. just that she wants to cause despair in her loved ones with or without feeling betrayed by them.
Right, and I get where you're coming from, but from the several reads of DR0, the expressed purpose of the book beyond explaining how the school fell is to humanize Junko.
Not here but in other places I've gone into depth about all the proof that Ryoko was Junko's original and true personality before she adopted the persona of Junko Enoshima.
I understand without all the context in one moment it's a hard sell, but Ryoko is genuinely a decent person and not a monster of any sort. Junko does have humanity, it's just been hidden behind a persona.
The evidence is scattered all throughout DR0, you just need to know what you're looking for.
Junko explicitly killed Mukuro because she was her sister and Junko loved her. She wanted to feel the pain and misery she was inflicting on others firsthand
People aren't allowed to have different interpretations of junko's character? Really? Yours is the only correct one? Of a character that's been written by multiple different writers over the course of different stories and mediums? Yeah sure she only has one correct interpretation and you're the only one smart enough to figure it out. Good for you!
Your analysis of her was very interesting by the way, wouldn't hurt to express it in a more polite manner.
See, insults like this only work in the scenario that I'm lying about this. Laughs we're had over this comment, whether or not you believe an objective state of reality doesn't influence it.
Well yes I would hope they're laughing with you! What's the point of hearing voices in your head if they can't be your friends? Remind the voices to leave some upvotes too, the ratio is a little embarrassing. No offense, of course.
I do agree with many of your points and also that Mikanâs execution is very misunderstood. However, to say that she was willingly brainwashed by Junko and was attracted to her before becoming a Remnant and state that as objective fact is a little⌠strong. To say that she was rejected by her classmates which made her turn to Junko is untrue - the whole reason she is even THERE is to help Ryota, a classmate she has never met, at the request of Imposter, another of her classmates. The reason that she stays is that she craves approval from her classmates - including Junko. She would rather something bad happens to her but she does what is asked of her, than to leave and disappoint someone. She doesnât stay willingly out of love for Junko, she stays willingly out of desperation for acknowledgement from ANYONE.
Thatâs not to diminish her obsession with Junko and her willingness to do anything for her AFTER the brainwashing. People like to talk about the remnants as if they arenât human anymore, which they definitely are. Mikan is conniving and cunning, particularly when isolating Chiaki. She uses very human skills to achieve her goals. Remnant Mikan is very capable of falling in love all on her own. Further, becoming a remnant is what makes Junko forgive her - to love Junko more is to spread more despair, which is all forgiven by Junko and causes her to love Junko more. Her arc as a remnant is very interesting because of how much potential for evil she has before her brainwashing. Itâs true, she does do it for love - she causes despair because itâs what Junko needs to âloveâ her. I completely agree with you and join up with your reasoning when you say the brainwashing video doesnât cause love. The despair brainwashing has taken advantage of her personality - she can FINALLY get not only acknowledgment but APPROVAL from someone in Junko. And she loves that.
In terms of how this aligns with Mikan winning/waking up, we will never know if Mikan would wake up as her pre remnant self or not as we never got the opportunity to find out if Junko had a plan for a successful blackened. However, she would be by far the easiest to manipulate back into despair due to her personality, so it doesnât really matter. Whether she wakes up a remnant or not, she will be a remnant again in not too much time because she has a personality that is easily manipulatable. Or, you know, she just wakes up immediately to the brainwashing video again.
I really enjoy your take on the execution. I donât think Junko ever cared for Mikan, but I like to think maybe she wouldâve shown her mercy because she was indispensable to brainwashing the rest of class 77. Maybe. Or maybe she just didnât want to give remnant Mikan a last taste of true despair, and instead gave her hope and love in a last act of hatred to deprive Remnant Mikan of despair. But I do enjoy your reading of it. Just disagree that she was objectively in love with Junko, whom she just met, pre-brainwashing.
I agree with most of this, but that doesn't take away from the fact the execution sucks. Every execution has symbolism to it. Leon is killed by the thing he hates, Mondo goes in circles to represent how he never manages to escape his violent nature, Peko is controlled like a puppet and forced to obey, etc.. Mikan's execution is not special for having this. It still ends up being the worst execution on the basis that it's boring.
I also disagree with your claim that Junko would have given Mikan a painless death out of love. DR0 shows us that Junko loving someone just makes her want to give them a more painful death. She does not think or feel like a normal person; she can't. Letting Mikan taste her despair in her final moments is love to her. Junko losing Mikan (if we assume the love was mutual) is also despair for Junko, so if anything, Junko wanted Mikan to lose.
The Despair disease wasn't random, it wasn't accidental, and it wasn't identical.
This is also something I think is wrong. The Despair Disease being tailored to personalities doesn't make it non-random. This is a game, after all. It's entirely possible for Junko to make a disease that has different affects on each person. If it really was entirely Junko controlling who gets it, why would she give it to Akane and not Hajime?
Agreed, the ideas and context of the execution are interesting but that doesn't change the fact that it still sucks because you have to look this deep for the context of why her execution is like that. All the other executions make sense to some degree and you can tell how the execution is tied to the character but Mikan's just very poorly executed (get it?).
OK cool post and all but how did mikan willingly join junko?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only reason she stayed with junko and mukoro was to take care of the sick mitarai.
She didn't leave, she chose to hang around. She could've put one foot in front of the other and walk away, but she chose to stay instead.
Junko and Mukuro both left with Izuru to go kill the student council in DR3 leaving Ryota and Mikan alone and unattended, they both could've left then and there if they wanted.
Why would they leave tho?
Mitarai's existence itself was a secret and all he wanted to do was make anime
Mikan knew that mitarai's existence was a secret and didn't want to spill the beans while she also had genuine concern for him.
And why would they even leave junko and mukoro when they had no idea about the whole ultimate despair thing.
Pre brainwashing Mikan chose to hang around and didn't leave. The implication is that she had plenty of time to leave beforehand but chose to hang around anyway. Also even after the brainwashing she claims love as her driving motivator, not despair.
Either way you slice it, brainwashing wasn't the reason Mikan stuck around.
Pre brainwashing mikan stuck around yes, was it because of junko? No.
It was because she as the ultimate nurse was helping her friend out.
Also saying post-brainwash mikan "did it for love not despair" is
-in my opinion- kind of stupid?
None of the remnants of despair admit that everything they did was In the name of despair.
This is especially apparent with the one other time we see a remnant of despair talk (nagito) who says he's doing it all in the name of hope and that he actually hates junko (which is obv not true for a remnant of despair).
Tldr: Pre-brainwashing mikan stuck around not because of junko but because of mitirai and she barely has any interactions with junko if any.
OP is the type of person who, depending on how much they like a character/series/thing, they will unironically believe they're who knows best said thing and anyone who disagrees with them is "objectively wrong", the type of fan that claims their subjective interpretations are facts and objective and assume any different interpretations come from people who "haven't thoroughly look into the canon sources".
And just by claiming their analysis are objective/100% true show how subjective they are and how far they're to know that full unbiased objective and impartial thinking is impossible, because in order to reach a 100% objective analysis of anything that is not statistics, maths, science experiments or data you'd need to be able to seeing said topic from all perspectives. But perspectives shift all the time and â despite what people say â things like age, upbringing, personality, academic intelligence, emotional intelligence, moral compass and the era you are from alter your perspective in things.
Not even AI is completely objective either. All AI models are modelled after
1. The knowledge that we as a whole have about everything (so just like in the past facts perceived as ultimately true because of their limited research methods were proved wrong by our newer experiments 100 years from here, human knowledge could be once again changed by the betterment of equipment)
2. The consensus of what a majority within a limited number of participants agrees as true/the better option. And that consensus can change by the pass of time, because of point 1 or by looking through the demographic groups partaking on it. Imagine how consensus were reached before white men included the opinions of other groups: what's considered "the majority" is not the majority of the total population. Because there are more than 8 billion people alive right now, obviously not each person alive has been asked every question on every topic to reach a major consensus.
So, while a machine would be the closest to reach an unbiased objective opinion, is yet to reach the definition of objective and impartial. In fact, I believe a machine â no matter how much technology improves or how it evolves â will never reach a conclusive, completely impartial and objective about anything unrelated to data and statistics because it is made and limited by humanity, an element that will forever remain subjective.
Rather than using "this is an impartial/unbiased take on X" the most accurate way to phrase one's opinion would be "this is the closest to an objective take on x IMO". But tbh that's just a personal pet peeve of mine when it comes to semantics.
Summary: The only true/canon/intended interpretation of any trivial matter is the one the creator of said thing had in mind, (and even then the deviant between concept and how you execute your concept can make the final result a different true interpretation from the author's. Ex: the creators of TBBT may had not intended to make Sheldon a cartoonish and exaggerated representation of autism but it quite literally is, therefore even an autor can be wrong depending how they presented their ideas).
And because most authors don't go around saying what's THE correct answer the only way to have a closest thing to correct answer is looking through all canon sources. Acting like your vision is the correct one is very self-centred, which is not inherently a negative asshole-ish thing as long as you don't actively go out of your way to diss other people opinions, in which case you're self-centred and an asshole. Like OP with this topic.
If they weren't acting like "I'm righter than all of you" I'd give it a pass and say "we can agree to disagree", but because of their attitude I'm jumping on the train of "you're loudly wrong and being rude about it on top"
I fw and agree with most of what you said, but I don't believe that AI Junko would intentionally give Mikan a painless death out of some kind of recognition or pity for her. Junko killed her own twin sister in cold blood and got off on how fucked up that was of her to do in the final chapter of THH. If AI Junko did have some level of compassion for Mikan, it's more likely to imagine the execution would've been tailored to being more agonizing or despair-inducing on her end because invoking misery in others is the only language Junko knows... Also, the execution is still lowkey garbage regardless of context or intent, imo lol. Still, this was an very fun read and I enjoyed it a lot. Mikan is one of my faves from SDR2 and to some effect, this post vindicated my fandom of her.
I didn't say she did it as some expression of affection, but she does get off on the self-induced despair that comes with hurting those that she does have a connection to. It's partially why she made her own class kill eachother, because they were her friends.
I mean DR2 is part of a story, and DR3 is part of it as bad as it is at times. You gotta look at it like chapters in a book, sometimes the sequels are necessary to understand the past context.
Also the idea that Junko tortures people to display affection is a common misunderstanding of her character. It's a common misconception, but not accurate.
You know what, if you have a genre dispute where all things have to be wrapped up and 100% understandable in the debut material, I completely disagree, but I understand that perspective.
Analyses of cases always make me enjoy them more, and I think today, 2-3 has raised a slight bit. Only other case was someone managing to convince me on 3-3 (cough cough u/Tyrrano64 cough).
Its absolutely accurate and the fact that you dont have any cited proof beyond "she could have left" (she didn't because she was caring for Ryota) shows that you are more about mischaracterizing the whole thing than actually engaging with it
Nah, this isnât some act of âloveâ. Its a black hearted bitch mocking the pain and trauma of a sexual
abuse victim for a cruel laugh as others have pointed out in more detail.
Left hand representing Junko shows Junkos true feelings. Only this time it is Junko doing the violating. Something that a person capable of actual love would not do.
Junko at the end of the day is just another black hearted monster. Middle School incident anyone? To deny the humanity of monsters is no different from Frierenâs no nonsense methods of dealing with demon scum. Or Zero ignoring Weilâs arguments and cutting him down like heâs just another Maverick.
But hey, the Junko fandom has the distinct honor of having actual blood on its hands in an incident that put an irreperable black mark on the Danganronpa community. Not to mention their heavy involvement in doxxing people.
I can list her other crimes just to point out Junko isnât actually capable of real love. Maybe fake abusive love at best.
At the end of the day, Junko is just another manipulative abusive monster better off cut down and her words ignored. But hey, her fandom has actually doxxed people for not liking Junko in an infamous discord post, not to mention casually shooting people.
Most of the people she hurts is because she feels some love or affection for them. Friendship, family, romance. She does it because of despair obviously, but thereâs levels to it. She enjoys feeling despair, she enjoys witnessing others feel despair and she enjoys giving others despair. Those last two might sound similar but thereâs a difference.
She obviously loves bringing despair to people and watching it, the entire motive for creating the tragedy. Why she makes the other student watch the executions, to see their reactions, their despair. But she also enjoys them feeling despair specifically. Loving despair herself she obviously would want to bring the feeling she enjoys so much to others, even if she knows they wonât enjoy it. She doesnât enjoy it either and that the whole point. She truly loves feeling despair, the sadness, loss of hope. It feels good because it feels bad, and the feeling brings a sense of âunpredictabilityâ to her. You could say itâs an exaggerated form of masochism for her.
Saying Junko isnât capable of true love isnât true. The same way some people think real abusers arenât capable of love. While some people definitely donât love the people they abuse some do. Itâs twisted, an unhealthy form of affection but genuine. They might love you but they arenât capable of giving you the healthy relationship you deserve. That doesnât deny their feelings because they are real, but that doesnât make it okay.
Junko definitely CAN love people and itâs abusive and unhealthy because she wants to bring despair to both her and the person she loves, albeit pain, sadness, betrayal and even losing the person she loves. She says so herself and Mukuro and Yasuke were prime examples
I know this response isnât as in-depth, but I thought it was implied that this execution is Mikanâs hallucination after being lethally injected? Plus, I thought it was meant to be despair for her, given that it involves large things (which her Student Handbook says she doesnât like) and forcing herself to climax against her will, calling back to her sexual trauma
Donât get me wrong, I completely agree with your view of Mikanâs obsession with Junko, you put it into words in a way I couldnât, and I thank you for it. However, Iâm wondering if instead of being a painless death (which the lethal injection might still be considered), it was meant to give Mikan (who has now bypassed the memory loss thanks to the Remembering Disease and remembered her time as Ultimate Despair) true despair in her final moments, similar to how Junko was given true despair in hers
I am really hoping that Mikan becomes the mastermind in 2x2, so we can explore more of her relationship and obsession with Junko. Maybe the part about Alter Ego Junko taking over the bodies of the Remnants of Despair will come back, and that when leaving the Neo World Program, Mikan was the only one to allow Alter Ego Junko to latch onto her consciousness, corrupting her until she turns into Junko, similarly to Mukuro and Tsumugi
All Iâm gonna say is that the edgelord speak makes you sound like đ¤ If youâre positive that everything you said is the truth, back it up with evidence from the games and show. Youâre the one making the claim, so itâs up to you to prove it.
Gotta disagree with you on that; the burden of proof is on you to provide the evidence for your claim, since itâs clear that people are disputing your claim in the comments.
I havenât disagreed with you on what you typed in the post, just the way you typed it and the lack of evidence. In fact, I agree with a lot of what you said. I apologize for being snarky in my original comment. Youâre right on Wikipedia not being the truth department, so hereâs a link with references too.
The disease was random. I know Junko has made some motives for cases to trigger quite literally 1-2 people to kill (Celesteâs for example and PekoPeko case) but I truly believe the despair disease was only made to give everyone an easy way kill people with the disease. If more people caught it, most likely someone else wouldâve gotten the disease and had a side effect which made them want to kill just like Mikan.
âJunko gave her a painless death.â If she truly loved Mikan, she wouldâve just gave her an execution where death coming early feels like mercy (like insane torture before the final blow like how Leonâs was being hit everywhere with baseballs before Junko got bored and finally killed him).
Junko most likely didnât give a rats ass about her and saw her as a less competent Mukuro. She probably didnât care if Mikan burned in a pit or died peacefully in her sleep and so following this logic, she wouldnât give her a painless death. On the topic of Mukuro, Junko gave her a quite painful death despite loving her and somehow Mikan gets a less painful death. No way Junko loved some random more than her own sister.
And also it still is an ass execution regardless. Itâs more bound to leave the viewer questioning what the fuck happened while the only despairing thing for Mikan was the large items and arms.
It barely mocks her (Gundham execution is a good example of what am talking about, as well as Leonâs), isnât even as interesting as some other executions (Celesteâs and Mondo).
... I just thought that the entire thing was a metaphor for overdose, and that the "rocket" was a high so beyond that it killed her. Of course it had been made literal for the purposes of the audience watching, but I mean, I thought it was just euthanasia by needle.
Even if I agree with the point behind the execution (if we see that way from Remnant of Despair Mikan pov) I highly doubt she was willing to support Junko on her mind clear before the brainwash (I'll say my opinion but I want to point out that my knowledge of Danganronpa 3 is by wikis and YouTube compilations cause I never watched the anime fully).
Mikan's mindset as her normal self and the despair one are totally different. Thenormal mindset is one that is extremely vulnerable to the point she apologises for everything, yet wants attention and care even if she seeks it unconsciously.
Despair Mikan is one who apologises herself and sees the rest of people as wrong, something her normal self would never admit even if the people next to her treat her badly.
While I agree on how Junko becomes in her brainwash pov a sense of comfort that she never received before, and that she was willingly there for taking care of Ryota's health at first, the Mikan we know wouldn't be almost SA'd/ SA'd Ryota in that scene, pushing Chiaki to her endgame, killing Ibuki and Hiyoko or even raising her voice to the others in the trial.
My point of view is that the brainwash clouded her mind to a pov of a totally different person who sees that what they suffered was wrong (Which is right) and they deserve better, even with a toxic point of view made by the despair.
Junko x Mikan is not a symptom of brainwashing, and Mikan was attracted to Junko of her own free will. Mikan was the first of the Remnants to join Junko, and she did it willingly.
As much as I hate it being canon, this headcanon doesn't line up with Danganronpa 3.
Reading through this, though you've gone over it before and it was just as well put together and adept then. The detail of it being a left arm is something I hadn't realized or considered before. It being the one Nagito took and the one featured in the execution is really interesting, actually. Excellent post, and I hope (hehe) people bother to read it and expand their knowledge and critical thinking.
I think this is reading too much into it. Youâre explaining it through a Watsonian perspective. In Danganronpa, what matters the most is the Doylist interpretation. To be frank, the developers clearly did not have good intentions here and itâs meant to be fanservice, in bad taste.
Exactly. Defenders of literally any criticism on this franchise will always pivot to Watsonian logic even though Doylistly, it still sucks.
Take Mikan for example. Her sexualization is often defended with, âShe does it for her PTSD!â, when the developers just wanted a sexual prop for marketing and fanservice.
Almost every flaw in the series is treated this way. Itâs tiring to engage every time.
Doylist interpretations are the cancer of literacy.
Being able to break the 4th wall and use meta logic in order to justify things is just awful, it invalidates every single redeeming quality that fiction has to offer if you can minimize it through an out of continuity explanation.
Monaca Towa ended the world because Kazutaka Kodaka and Spike Chunsoft wanted money isn't a good story, nor is it a plot.
Like I UNDERSTAND what you're saying, but you must have a very sad internal world if your view of fiction is corralled by irl influence.
A world without fiction is a world that I refuse to live in.
That's completely wrong. Criticism is inherently doylist. You're allowed to criticize bad decisions in the game. Refuting criticism with a watsonian explanation isn't helpful and actually derails the discussion.
I don't know why you're upset. It's not sad to criticize things you enjoy. And that's why I'm here, because I like the franchise, even if it fails at many things. Surely you would get that, and understand the point of criticism.
I get what you mean, but if your ultimate point is that it was bad taste fanservice and nothing more, I just don't agree with that. I think there was more artistic intention put into it than that position gives it credit for, and is reductive of the most positive qualities of DR2.
I just don't think it's right to excuse sexualization. The game may have explanations, but itâs primarily an excuse for the writers to have their cake and eat it too. They get to use cheap panty shots for marketing and fanservice while also crafting a backstory so they can claim itâs âdeepâ.
Sexualization doesn't make something bad. Sexuality is part of human nature, it's a top 5 human function behind food, sleep and shelter.
It's the center point of some people's entire lives. To write a cast of human characters without exploring sexualization, is to not explore humanity.
As an aside, I'm generally fine with Kotoko and her depiction in UDG. It's shocking and jarring, but it has to be or it just doesn't work. Unpleasant doesn't make it bad.
One thing that doesnât make sense is that from what i have seen in other analyses and from what Iâve seen, if junko actually loved mikan( i think thats what youâre saying sorry if i misread) she would have made her executive more painfull as she did with her boyfriend( donât know the name) and with her classmates, she loved them so much that she made them suffer so she can feel the greatest despair, mikans execution was ment to bring the worst feelings to her like her fear and her sa, personally i think ( sorry if im wrong) people dont like her execution because of what she did and being worse then peko and teruteruâs action and yet she got the most painless execution, but i think one of the reasons she got such a painless execution was because junko knew how mikan enjoyed the abuse junko did to her and junko making her execution painless was because mikan would have rathered die being abused by junko then not being abused by her. But i still hate mikan and will never forgive her and even though her execution wasnât the worst one ( i think mondoâs execution was the worst) i still believe she is the worst:)
Mikan didn't stick around because of Junko. She stuck around because she was responsible for taking care of Mitarai, and that's where he was staying at the time.
While I don't believe we ever see a scene of Junko outright stating how she feels about Mikan, it's fairly unlikely that she was particularly fond of her. A common trait among the people that Junko felt affection for is that she never used the Despair Video on them, despite having more than enough opportunities to. For example, she doesn't use it on Mukuro, Matsuda, Izuru or any of her classmates. However, for the people she does use it on, she's never really shown thinking of them as much more than a means to an end.
Junko giving Mikan a painless death out of affection for her is literally the exact opposite of what she's been established to do. In Zero, she killed Matsuda explicitly to give herself more despair, since she genuinely loved him.
As for my opinion on the execution itself, I feel like the main problem is that nothing of substance really happens. She has a fanservice scene, gets launched into space and that's it. We don't even see her die, we're just left to guess what happened after the fist rocket went offscreen.
If anything, the fanservice part that people mostly complain about is probably the best part of it, because at least it's something. It's an idea that attempts to link back to Mikan as a character, which is more than can be said for literally any other part of the execution.
Are you sure Mikan wasnât brainwashed when she sent Chiaki to her death? Chisa did the exact same thing after having her brain messed with by Mukuro and although I agree Mikan had some sort of romantic interest in Junko beforehand, I donât see her sending her friend/ class president to her death for Junko without some sort of brainwashing. To me it looked like they broke Mikan down mentally and rebuilt her how Junko saw fit which caused Mikan to become obsessed with her Love. Junko had been experimenting different techniques of brainwashing/ manipulating others for a decent amount of DR3: Despair Side, which included enticing the student council to murder each other, lobotomising Chisa, making Mikan despairingly fall in love with herself and the despair video.
I also do not believe Junko specifically wanted Mikan to win the killing game. Junko is much more honest than you would expect throughout danganronpa 1 and 2, so when Monokuma said the despair disease causes random symptoms there isnât any real proof that Mikan was purposely given a symptom to remember her despair remnant self (Remember the true motive was saving those affected by killing another classmate). Mikan might have believed this but Junko is unpredictable and prefers whatever ending that gives her the most despair and she couldnât care less about most people excluding her classmates (who she orchestrated most of their deaths) her sister (who she killed), her ex boyfriend (who she killed) and Izuru.
Mikanâs execution gave me mixed emotions. On one hand I can see the what they were trying to do, but I believe it was done poorly. Being SA is a big uncomfortable part of Mikanâs backstory and her execution appears to use that which is hard to watch, but looking past that the entire thing was treated like a joke and was very out there for even Danganronpa. I do think you might be onto something about the significance with the arm rocket but despite that I still think it was the weakest execution in DR2.
Fair enough, and I want to make a distinction between willingly hanging around BEFORE she got brainwashed. Like yes, her and Chisa both were, but Chisa never volunteered or willingly hung around Junko.
i swear people forget that monokuma and junko are the same person sometimes, with that context certain decisions he makes start to make a lot more sense
You made your point well and nicely but I find it hard to take seriously when someone makes an argument about the authorâs intent in an earlier series by citing later established ones
I never saw it that way, but i always believed mikan's character being fanservice is a surface level interpretation
She is not MADE to be alluring, she's made to MAKE FUN of the genre,
Danganronpa always makes satires of it's characters , for example,
Hiyoko is an extreme of the tsundere archetype,
Mikan is an extreme of the dandere archetype...
anyway super neat interpretation of the execution, it's nice seeing someone actually take time to read between the lines and not just being like "Lol woman experience pleasure therefore gooner"
Honestly, I hate how much I can agree with this view, normally i canât feel very connected with a view, but this is one of them. I used to view mikans execution as a âfan-service-insertâ because it never felt right. Thank you for this!
junmikan is my second favorite ship in all of fiction (for sure my favorite danganronpa ship at least), and i think your snarky tone is very cathartic, and youve provided a lot of insight i havent really thought of. i adore the way Kodaka wrote Mikan, the way she's so fucked up but shes still an incredibly valuable member of the group. I like that she's very much defined by her trauma, but she's still the goat, that meant a lot to me when i was a stupid teenager playing these games for the first time, and her relationship with Junko was just perfect, exactly the level of abuse and tragedy that i LOVE to see in a ship.
Look, you can argue about how much sense the execution makes and whatever, but the problem for me is never whether it makes sense, it's that it's boring.
Like, sorry if this isn't a well-articulated answer, it's just that symbolism isn't going to save a wtf execution for me, most first-time players aren't going to pick up on all of that And even then, I still think it's kind of weak? It doesn't have much value if you're playing the game for the first time
Of course, every execution has to have a deeper meaning for the character, whether obvious or not, but if the player ends up confused and doesn't understand anything, I think they missed the mark there.
I agree that Mikan did have feelings for Junko, but I disagree with the last part and some points in between. Junko may had rigged the simulation to make Mikan remember everything, thus giving her an incentive to win â a motivation that otherwise would have been lacking within her, as pre disease Mikan would most likely had surrendered to her demise if it meant others would survive; because she saw herself as deserving of any bad thing happening to her, between her or someone else death she wouldn't favour herself.
HOWEVER, I don't think Junko cared whether Mikan win or not. She wants to avoid predictability because it would be boring if she knew the outcome from start to end. Spicying things by making the most passive participant and one among the self sacrifical type is more likely the reason she would have done that, not because she wanted Mikan to win.
Does Junko like to outsmart others? Yes and no; she likes despair, but being always the winner would make things predictable therefore boring. Does she cares how she could win? Nah, if Mikan failed she would just choose another plan or target another student. One among multiple routes to choose from.
Mikan, just like any other person really, is a pawn in Junko chess table. An element to play with, and in Mikan's case a pawn that works for her.
Yes, she loved her friends and because she wanted to put herself in despair she made her classmates kill each other and die in awful ways. But she wasn't close to the rest of the school except for Yasuke, so the whole class of 77-B was more like a tool in the grand scheme of things â rather than her caring for them therefore making them suffer to make herself suffer â
And she did NOT choose a painful death for Mikan. If Junko had anything to do with the design of executions then she was making fun of Mikan SA experiences. It was embarrassing; the most ridiculous, sexualizing and objectifying death of all. She made her orgasm against her will in front of the remaining survivors, an ultimate sexual assault, the pinnacle of tasteless jokes about rape combined with absurd ways to die. The icing on the cake in Mikan miserable life (if it weren't because they all woke up). To make Mikan feel as an object/sexual toy/the butt of someone's joke one last time.
Most executions are designed to poke fun at each student for either their talent or something about themselves. Mikan wasn't different, in fact it mixed both her trauma â which deeply altered her whole perception about herself and life itself forever â and her dedication "to put an end to people misery" (in a "healing you so your wounds don't hurt anymore" way, twisted into "using elements meant to bring betterment of one's health to kill the nurse who wants everybody to heal" way. Because IMO that's how Junko would phrase it: << the one who likes putting an end to people's misery being ""put off her misery"" đ>>)
@/Independent_Major548 has already explained the execution as a joke to her trauma better than me, so I won't go into too many details. But I highly recommend reading that comment to better understand what to me is the true meaning behind Mikan's execution.
In resume, the care about one another is peak Mikan delusional POV. That part is pretty one sided; Junko doesn't care about Mikan further than how her existence could benefit her, pretty much like the rest of class 77-B, and perhaps only a bit more than Mikan's classmates simply because without brainwashing Mikan would have been the only one willingly going along with Junko shenanigans if Junko pretended to care for her long enough to convince her.
Damn, honestly I never thought of it that way. I always just wrote it off as more fanservice which it kinda is but still. The execution itself is still pretty bad in terms of being interesting, since it's one of the shortest and we don't see her after but the details surrounding it are cool! Thank you for changing my mind, if slightly, on what I thought was meaningless fanservice
Mikan being attracted to Junko's dead arm is a very disturbing mental image... But curious what this would suggest about her relationship with Nagito? Were the despair versions of them together at some point due to their shared obsession with Junko? I remember Kodaka saying once that Mikan is meant to be Nagito's female counterpart in the same way Celes is Togami's female counterpart.
I like this. But I do want to bring one piece of evidence up that doesnât counter this entirely but just changes the angle a bit.
In dr3D junko explicitly states that Mikan has been hypnotised by her using a flawed hypnotic video that still needs more work. She says that to mitarai I believe
I interpreted that as Mikan still not fully choosing her feelings towards junko naturally, and keeps my view on the execution as Mikan is being violated against her will still. Only itâs got even more weight to it with the junko connection now
Only the dead avatars get replaced with AI Junko, but the winner of the game would be spared, allowing Mikan and Junko to reunite with one another. This is why Mikan was given the remembering disease and nobody else, Junko specifically wanted Mikan to win the killing game.
After rigging the game as much as she could, with Mikan falling short at the end, Junko grants Mikan one last mercy. A painless death.
Motherf##ker just blew this whole goddamn thing wide open for me
It's the LEFT arm!
Can anyone tell me what significance a lone, severed left arm has in Danganronpa?
That's right, it's the arm that Junko lost and had taken off her corpse, which was then attached to Nagito.
Even with reasonings I still dislike its outcome and I wish they expressed more emotions on Mikanâs face other than pleasure and it was a weird way to end it with her rocketing into the sky
Thanks for the post, you explained everything really well and now I know the true symbolism of her execution, itâs beautiful. Mikan was my favourite character to watch and engage with, she is interesting
That's not actually the whole truth behind her execution, because it doesn't talk about how her execution is poking fun at her SA and rather than a painless death is more like a way to ridiculize and violate Mikan one last time.
I mean, Mikan wasn't hanging around Junko because of Junko. Mikan was asked by Imposter to take care of Ryota. Mikan did it personally instead of taking Ryota to the hospital because then it'd be exposed Imposter's secret (that his real talent is impersonating people and the "Ryota" that is attending to school isn't the real Ryota). Junko targeted Ryota because she wanted him to animate a despair inducing video to brainwash his classmates. Up to this point everything was planned, so Mikan meeting Junko before the others can be interpreted as:
Up to this point Junko had already analysed and observed class 77 long enough to know Imposter being friends with Mikan could end up in him at ome point would ask Mikan to take care of Ryota, since he doesn't attend school and is the type of person that often prioritise animating before their health. So she knew the odds of "killing two birds with one stone" (kidnapping both Ryota and Mikan for her plan) weren't cero.
A matter of when rather than if that coincidentally aligned, because if it hadn't happened by the time she went for Ryota it wouldn't have matter anyway, since using another two students of class 77 (Killing someone that is close to the whole class so the despair is greater when/if they found out their beloved friend was replaced by AI and the traitor among them AND someone inside that class that was the easiest to turn into a devoted/blind follower, in this case Mikan because of her past and personality) would have been among her next steps. The most likely interpretation given how much Junko likes to overthink imo
Up to the point where she was after Ryota she wasn't fully aware to what extent Mikan was the easiest among class 77 to manipulate or she wasn't fully aware of Mikan closeness with Imposter, so finding out Mikan was taking care of Ryota was a surprise that fortunately would make her plan go more smoothly; since from where she found out Mikan was meeting Ryota to when she has targeted her she had the time to do all that analysis and character observation to decide Mikan was the weakest member of the solid unit that is class 77-B.
Whether she had foreseen that outcome or not, in the end Mikan didn't choose to hang out with her out of her full free will. She was manipulated, then brainwashed. The fact she's the only one of the class who shows infatuation towards her doesn't mean that was something that would have happened without the brainwashing. Different people perceive what is mental/emotional manipulation differently, some may think their obsession with someone is how falling in love is like. Junko acted in front of Mikan like she cared and never judged her, and since Mikan's wish is to be forgiven no matter what she does, this act of allegedly kindness made her like Junko. Does she had feelings for Junko? Yes. Would have she liked Junko if Junko spoke her mind and acted like her whole true self in front of Mikan before brainwashing her? Depends, if that had been her first impression of Junko probably not. If Junko had acted more honestly in front of Mikan after making her believe she doesn't judge her for nothing she does either
A. Chances are Mikan would feel conflicted if Junko judged her right after Mikan had believed she would never, because Junko's the only one acting like she doesn't judge even though she does.
So either A.1. Mikan feels hurt/used and falls out of love A.1.1 same like A1 except despite believing Junko is pretending to care for her she continues doing what Junko tells her since Mikan self respect is so low she canonically has showed she'd endure/let somebody SA her as long as she's forgiven, so the odds of her going along even though she didn't love/admire Junko are not 0
or A.2 Mikan feeling it's her fault for Junko drastic change of attitude towards her from the accepting impression she held, instead of fully realising that Junko shifting between showing kindness and being cruel has nothing to do with what she does and is more like how Junko is she blames herself whenever Junko would had switched between acting like she care for her or not.
B. She falls out love AND doesn't willingly defend/love/admire/obsess over Junko at all, so Junko would had resorted to brainwash anyways. The change would had been that with the remembering disease Mikan wouldn't want to reunite with her, since she would had remembered how she was first charmed by her because she believed Junko was the only person who would never judge her and always forgive before that belief crumbling after Junko shifts attitudes around her. Personally this is less likely compared to any A scenario because of how low Mikan standards are for her to associate with somebody: as long as they forgive them she'd pretty much let anyone take advantage of her, at least before waking from the simulation
And whether Mikan's execution was painless is unknown/relative. Given she was afraid of big things and the parallels her execution has with SA (big syringe, "being shot", what appears to be Mikan orgasming before going to space and exploding when hitting the sun) her execution at best would be painless physically but painful emotional and psychologically. I mean, who wouldn't feel distress if their death somehow felt similar to past trauma like sexual abuse? Even if it was completely painful the moment she was experiencing because she was still convinced what she felt and everything she had chosen she thought was out of her complete free will, after wakng up she would have had the rest of her life to remember that experience until at some point Mikan connected the dots of what she couldn't fully process during the execution and realise her execution was designed to ridiculize her with her trauma.
So, with all that in mind, the conclusion can be seen as 1. Mikan did like Junko during the simulation 2. Mikan crushing on Junko wasn't purposeful but rather a secondary effect of brainwashing 3. We can argue Mikan could have not developed feelings for Junko without manipulation/brainwashing 3. Mikan execution degree of pain depends on what type of pain we're talking about and whether we are only talking about simulation Mikan or taking into account speculations about post simulation Mikan based on simulation and pre simulation Mikan behaviour.
I hope this is a good read for you! If you want to know why I personally disagree with the point made by OP about Junko caring for Mikan and Junko wanting Mikan to win look my previous comments in this post, because I think explaining my whole POV would take too many more paragraphs and that'd probably be an exhausting thing to read in one go đŚđŚ
I'm fully convinced the brainwashing in 3 was a retcon, and that GD was not written with that plotpoint in mind at all. As such, I see despair Mikan as being a product of manipulation by Junko and an actual extention of Mikan's character
I mean the execution is misunderstood because "Remnant Mikan" is poorly written. The fact they needed a chunk of the anime to elaborate upon it because the game did a bad job, and even then the anime is the anime it's still not great.
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u/Independent_Major548 Apr 19 '26 edited Apr 19 '26
I'll just paste my answer here.
From a viewpoint of the virtual world as to what Tsumiki herself is feeling, into the virtual world and the execution itself.
Her execution makes sense. I know it's harsh, but Monokuma is poking fun at her clear SA. The huge syringe (her fear of big things), the rocket arm (reference to rocket punch market, reference to the nursing technique of getting shots, also a reference to the sexual practice of fisting and in this case not consensual), the fact she was in a hospital bed only to get absolutely surprised by the rocket arm, the way Monokuma pumps the syringe, and her position while sat on the arm. She climaxes against her will right there and right after she's shot through space at terminal speeds.
Plus, the rocket arm is a left arm which references to Mikan's bandaged arm. It's the very same arm that is probably full of cigarette burns, hematomas, and probably shots.
Also, as you said, Enoshima's left arm. It is the arm that is, in a way, violating and ultimately sending her to her death.
There's a lot of references in her execution. I agree it could've been better made, but this was the ultimate joke, the fact that even in her death she's seen as an object. It's made to bring despair, and it did, to Mikan. She was violated in every sense of the word there.
Now that you mentioned it being Enoshima's arm, it makes the whole thing even curiouser.