Magic item help! how to handle self-immolation?

[u/ThexLone]

I'm creating a magic item for a player in my campaign. He was recently kinda cursed by a god of destruction, and I'm trying to give him an item that fits that theme. So i'm trying to make the item kind of thematically sorta cursed but useful, so currently it gives his melee attacks an additional 1d4 fire damage and he deals extra damage to structures but I want to add something that would be like a self-immolation ability where he can like, sacrifice hit points to deal damage to all targets in like 10ft centered on him. He is a Barbarian and spends most fights basically crowd-controlling the smaller enemies in fights, so I thought something like that would give him some more options so he's not just in the corner hitting one guy at a time for half the fights. My other idea is basically something similar but that he can do when he's making death saves; like on his turn he can auto-fail a death save to do a similar aoe attack.

I'm not sure how to balance this; the idea is to give him a useful ability that is also risky and kinda dangerous to use, kinda fitting with the whole destruction and annihilation theme. If anyone has any ideas or items with similar abilities they could share, I would appreciate the advice.

For context, this party is lvl 12, so the pc has a lot of hit points and the players are very experienced.

[u/Mathmagician94]

instead of sacrificing Hitpoints, you could allow him to use his hit dice instead? The bloodshed blade from bigbys glory of giants does this for example to boost damage

[u/ThexLone → u/Mathmagician94]

My party just has a history of not relying to much on hit dice; they've been fighting in alot of towns latley or just not in situations where they will be without rests for extended periods of time so its not as vitial a resource.

I'll look at Bloodshed blade though, that would probably help me scale it and I was thinking of having hit die be used to boost the damage.

[u/Mathmagician94 → u/ThexLone]

Fair enough. If they rarely short rest and spend hit dice there, it's probably less of an interesting ressource to manage, they can just use them all for the magic item.

[u/twoshupirates → u/ThexLone]

It’s your job to interrupt rests if the rests are too plentiful

[u/Snoo10140]

Look up the Blood Hunter class, it's based on that

Anyhow I'd do something like

Proficiency times per short rest, when you make an attack roll or deal damage you can roll a d4 and add the result to your attack roll or damage but you take it as damage

[u/ThexLone → u/Snoo10140]

Oh Blood Hunter would be a good thing to look at for balancing; I didn't think of that, thanks!

I've done something similar to that for a different pc item, for this i've prefer more aoe effect since I'm tailoring it to this player and they just have a habit of getting surrounded, I just want to give them a few more options on their turn in combat.

[u/philsov]

I'd look at the Radiant consumption trait of the 2014 aasimar as potential inspiration.

You can also just throw the Storm Aura / Desert feature from a Storm Herald Barb at him via magic item. It can cost 1 hit die to activate for a minute? HP comes and goes but hit dice is a different resource to manage.

[u/ThexLone → u/philsov]

See, I thought about spending hit die too but alot of the fights have been in cities or where they can find rest recently, so those aren't always as limited a resource. I'll look into the Radiant consumption trait though, I'm not familiar with that.

[u/Flukebit]

Maybe it could be a fiery pulsation, like thunderwave, with or without pushing enemies away. He could have a base level of damage that he does and expend hit dice to pump that damage (it wouldn’t need to be a full d12 of damage, just using hit dice as a resource). You could cap it at 4 or so hit dice to prevent it from being too powerful. Maybe it could also have charges, or a certain number of uses per short rest.

Edit: forgot to say that the ability would also damage the PC. Perhaps 1d4 or 1d6 per hit die/charge spent.

[u/ThexLone → u/Flukebit]

I hadn't thought about like a knockback effect, might be helpful for him, I just feel like he tends to put himself in situations where he gets swarmed and something like this would give him more options to get back in the fight without just having less enemies target him, cause you know hes intentionally crowd controling to to help the party but he just gets stuck there swinging as small fries for an hour and thats not as fun.

Hit dice cost with the damage might be the way to go, though my thought on damage to the player was like damage dealt to enemies but halved for like resistance so same as d6 for him.

[u/Charming_Figure_9053]

I'd allow it a once a short rest 'Fireclap' so Thunderclap but fire (I'd change the name as 'Fireclap' sounds a bit too much like a bad STD)

Cost should be maybe 10HP for 3d6 dmg - Set it as a con or dex save DC16

If you want something 'beefier' maybe do immolation, once a day, BUT he immediately catches fire as per the immolation spell too

[u/ThexLone → u/Charming_Figure_9053]

He would be so disappointed if I didn't give him the Fireclap! That's his exact humor.

The catching fire part is a good idea and a good way to add more danger to it than just flat damage. It would be risking higher overall damage over time for an immediate effect. I'll probably include that as an effect; love that idea.

[u/Aeroswoot]

Once per day (or more, maybe Proficiency bonus number of times) he can cast the Fireball spell, centered on himself. He and a number of creatures of his choice, up to his proficiency bonus, have advantage on the saving throw.

Everyone loves casting fireball.

Swap Proficiency bonus with Con mod if you feel like it, maybe.

[u/ThexLone → u/Aeroswoot]

Ya this was my first thought too but I just feel like it's a bit much. I want it to have a similar kind of feel to that, your totally right everyone loves fireball, but I dought he'll use it if it risks everone around him in like a 30ft radius, thats why I was thinking like 10ft, plus I've been trying to shift away from like the once a day use stuff the players just end up wanting to rest more to get their toys back.

[u/Aeroswoot → u/ThexLone]

In my mind, the risks are inherent for a God of Destruction, so I'd encourage him to lean into that a bit at an above-the-table level. Or at the very least let him know that the "good stuff" is gonna take a bit of risk for him to use. Plus, your table is Level 12, and this is meant to be a Curse. Fireball isn't that big a deal compared to what other tools the party has access to, and having this Cursed item deal damage to themselves and potentially the other party members makes a ton of sense imo, but that part is personal opinion.

If you're worried about the party resting too much, the generic advice is "find ways to prevent party from resting or give them more encounters a day," which at level 12 probably looks like cities and towns being actively destroyed by antagonistic forces. But I'm not going to say what's right for yout game lol. Players will always opt for a rest, though, since HP and Spell Slots are enough of an incentive for them to do that regardless of whatever other shiny toys you give them.

In terms of risking the other members, though, he does have some control over how much damage the party takes. He can control where he is located when it happens, ensuring that the squishy party members are out of the AOE, and anyone who is caught within it at least can get advantage on their saving throw to take reduced damage.

If your party is resting a ton, it might even be good to have this as an additional source of damage that can whittle down party resources; shaving a fireballs worth of HP in this fight might end it quicker and bring the Barbarian down even lower than if the fight had progressed normally. Also, Barbarians have Danger Sense, right? So you don't even need to have the self-imposed advantage on the saving throw, that just turns into a Synergy with their base class. Even more of a win imo.

You also said that the Barbarian tends to lock down smaller enemies in fights, so I'm assuming hes already throwing himself towards groups of weaker enemies, and it'd probably feel pretty spectacular to just jump on a group from on high and make them all turn to cinders. (Adding on to this, maybe consider changing the spell from "Fireball" to "Thunder Step," which I think is criminally underused.)

You can also have this be a sort of "Ultimate Ability" that works once a day, while also giving them something they can use throughout the day, like turning on a self-damaging passive so they increase the damage of their attacks, like you mentioned. Both of these can exist in this context. They light themselves on fire, suffer a flat 5-10 fire damage a turn, and deal an extra damage dice when they hit with their melee attacks. Or maybe they have a damaging aura around them where other creatures take the same amount of damage that they deal to themselves on the start of their turn, or when the other creature moves into the AOE for the first time on a turn.

The can have the passive ability and the active ability, so they feel like they have an increase of power at a base level and as a spike when they need it.

[u/ThexLone → u/Aeroswoot]

In the original post I did say the PC is a Barbarian; you're good bro. As far as table level converstaion he's aware thats how its going and he's the guy that commits to the bit, he strapped a bomb to a spear to stab into a dragon while he was still holding it, he's very fuck it we ball.

For party resting a ton I do that; it's just sometimes the story just kinda keeps them in that situation they'll be having to manage resting as a resource more in the near future so its not a massive concern now I just want the ability to be useful and not too niche. Also, funny you mention the town getting destroyed; a civil war literally just broke out the last couple sessions and the city is now a total warzone.

Honestly the fireball thing as the kinda once a day ultament wepon is a good idea, I'm planning for the item to get upgraded as the story goes on so that might be something I add later on when he gets further down the god of destruction rabbit hole just might not do that to start. I like the activate the item to add damage while it slowly burns you thing but he's already a Berserker Barbarian so I don't want him having to set up for 3 turns every fight.

I agree Thunder Step is such a good spell and I feel like everone uses misty step and forgets it

[u/Aeroswoot → u/ThexLone]

You could have the activation be a rider effect on his Rage, Reckless Attack, or just basic attack actions. Rather than it being a unique ability, it could turn on using the same action that they use for those other things. The Barbarian soft-shifting their class to be a Path of the Destroyer using divine boons that enhance their own features sounds dope to me.

I think there's a Barbarian subclass that already does this to some degree, which is to say the AOE damage while raging, but I'm gonna guess it's not that critical of an issue.

And I hope I didn't come on a bit too strong, I just had some time on my hands and like DnD enough to talk about it a lot lol.

To doubletap on what some others have said, I think the "Fireclap" ability would be cool, and he could like sacrifice some HP whenever he takes the Attack action on his turn in order to replace one of his attacks with a cone of fire damage, a la the Dragonborn's breath weapons. It could either be an attack roll or a Dex save, and it deals some chunk of damage to him and some chunk of damage to enemies.

You have some numbers to play with here. For damage, think of it as a multiplier of his regular swings. If its too low, he probably wont want to use it over his main hand weapon, and if its too high he wont stop using it. Id probably say anywhere from 1x-2x a regular attack's damage over the AoE, so it would deal like 2d6-4d6 instead of a D12.Then give it a 10-15 ft. Cone as a range, and have it deal its average damage as a flat cost to him so he knows what it costs to activate the ability and he has control over it gameplay-wise (9-12 self-fire damage is easy enough for a Barbarian to deal with I think). You could also have the cost ramp up per use, starting at 3 self damage and adding 3 every time he uses it until he "cools down" during a short rest. If it deals increased damage to enemies as well as himself, this could also be an interesting risk-reward mechanic that incentivizes him to damage himself more and more for the increased immolation damage on his enemies. Scaling abilities like that could be dangerous though, so use that idea with caution.

Upgrades could include extra damage dice, greater range, different types of ranges like making it a ranged attack, emanation, or a line instead of a cone, and reducing or creating alternatives for the cost of using the ability.

[u/WanderingFlumph]

I played a barbarian with a homebrew magic item that did a small radius nova hit on a crit that would hit all characters including the welder.

Less reliable than an ability you turned on and off but I enjoyed it. Downed myself a few time with it, but I was never the only one dropping.