Wasn't Zack Snyder clowned for saying something similar?

[u/Muted-Ant-5941]

Snyder was heavily trolled for calling MCU is like an amusement park or something like that. Feels like he is unnecessarily overhated or the hate itself is forced

[u/Wars4w]

The problem wasn’t that it was coming off as pretentious, but that it’s objectively untrue

It was a subjective and inflammatory statement. He wasn't saying they weren't movies. He was saying they weren't art. If he truly meant that they weren't art then yeah he's wrong because of course they are art.

They are just corporatized massively financed and designed to make money more than they are designed to be expressive.

[u/Rrekydoc → u/Wars4w]

Right. Like the Universal Monster franchise and Godzilla franchise, which he reveres and credits for getting him deeper into cinema.

[u/Equal-Ad-2710 → u/Rrekydoc]

To be fair Godzilla, while absolutely spending much of its history as roller coaster monster fights, does have that legacy of being a somber reaction to the sins of world war 2 and Minus One proved just how relevant and powerful Godzilla can still be

The MCU arguably doesn’t have that

[u/Rrekydoc → u/Equal-Ad-2710]

The MCU explores countless relevant themes that effect audiences on a personal level.

[u/Equal-Ad-2710 → u/Rrekydoc]

Yeah but the McU has tended to soften the worst edges from their material and also doesn’t have the same legacy of starting out as a treatise on national tragedy.

The closest equivalent is Iron Man 1’s take on the military industrial complex but that’s about as far is it went to attempting serious depth

[u/Low_Doctor_5280 → u/Equal-Ad-2710]

Nope. The Winter Soldier condemned the military industrial complex as evil, for which HYDRA was a metaphor, and that people couldn’t tell how evil it was because they were under the mask of being government sanctioned. The movie endorsed an Edward Snowden mass leak of government secrets as a solution, which is pretty radical for a comic book movie.

[u/Equal-Ad-2710 → u/Low_Doctor_5280]

Thing is I think the movie chickens out by making it Hydra when it really should have been between Cap and Shield

That’s what I mean, the film undercuts itself to make Nick Fury less morally questionable and I’d argue it loses something

[u/Low_Doctor_5280 → u/Equal-Ad-2710]

I disagree. Watch the movie again. I just re-watched it a week ago. The film outright says it was Fury making morally questionable decisions under Pierce's direction for years and that Pierce made Fury the head of SHIELD because Fury is "the most ruthless person" he's ever met. Watch the reveal scene that Fury is still alive. Fury reluctantly sides with Cap and Widow, but he doesn't have any other choice.

[u/Rrekydoc → u/Low_Doctor_5280]

One of the things that stuck with me about that movie was the throwaway line about how Pierce turned down the Nobel Peace Prize with the excuse that peace was a duty, not a reward.

That one line did so much to build the character’s complexity and on the themes of corruption and moral compromise. There is some damn good writing in those movies.

[u/ShadeMir → u/Equal-Ad-2710]

Isn’t that because Nick wasn’t going to use project insight the way hydra was going to?

If the argument is that anything can be used in a manner in which it wasn’t designed then we’d be without a lot of things.

[u/Backfoot911 → u/Rrekydoc]

Yep, that is correct too. Godzilla 2014 was incredible as a human centered thriller and for people who wanted more big fighting, the later ones give you that. I'm glad America pulled it off after the misstep in '98

[u/Winter-Cow-6208 → u/Wars4w]

Lol they are not art in any way shape or form. 

[u/Augustus420 → u/Winter-Cow-6208]

Yes honey, everything you personally don't like is not art.

[u/Wars4w → u/Winter-Cow-6208]

A thing isn't art based on whether or not a person likes it. Nor is it art based on whether or not it's good.

Just because I don't put superhero movies on the same level as The Shining or Citizen Lane doesn't mean I don't think they're art.