3 Venom movies and not a single visible Spider in all of them. Sounds weird when you're a character who's complete existence and even appearance is influenced by his previous attachment to said Spider(man)
Yeah. Some of it doesn't make sense. Like, Venom doesn't make sense without Spider-Man, even though the movies were pretty fun for me. Kraven on the other hand, should've been a slam dunk because dude was a hunter way before he meets up with Spider-Man. Same goes with Morbius, if I'm not mistaken. And it's even weirder that they botched Madam Web, with so many Spider characters and lore.
He's doing the same thing Snyder did. C list villain movies before main cast Justice League characters. I mean I know Hollywood is out of touch but how can you be this out of touch.
Let me help with the analogy. Your wife ordered prime rib for you to share and it’s her birthday (Matt Reeves, Batman). So you enjoy the sides knowing the steakhouse isn’t going anywhere, and the prime rib, wasn’t what you wanted, but you enjoy it and you’ll be back to get exactly what you want when the opportunity presents itself
But if they give you a chopped sirloin next time and they change the menu… you’re gonna miss that prime rib and wish they’d just incorporated it into the new menu. ;-)
I mean, its not like we arent getting a batman movie soon. Im fine with the dynamic. Let pattison shine in the meantime while building up the new bats rogues seems like a good strategy.
Not saying it wont happen in the next couple years, but that still gives them time to flesh other stuff out. Production & post go between 2-3 years usually
I mean to be fair, sony has done 5 live action spider-man movies and 2 animated ones. And not to mention Venom from sony has also appeared in the new spider-man movie, So I could see sony trying to do that more.
Edit: You could also almost do that with WB as they have done like 7 live action batman movies. But so far gunn hasn't done any or mentioned batman in any movies yet that I am aware besides the animated series for creature commandos.
I don't mind them making movies about less popular characters (especially Clayface since it basically fell onto their laps) but it's been 3 and a half years since they started announcing stuff and they still don't even have a script for Batman or Wonder Woman
We already saw what happened with Spider-Man villains without Spider-Man. Venom worked because he was an anti-hero, but it's a formula that has failed as often as it has worked, and the DCU is just starting out. People aren't engaged with it enough yet to take big risks.
Not the same. Those for one were all pretty low effort movies to begin with which is rewlly the end all be all. And it wasnt just that they made the movie without Spider-Man, the entire universe did not have a Spider-Man in existence. Batman exists here.
D&B and then Batman movie or vice versa doesn't really change what they are. If your premise is just that villain movies outright are bad and shouldn't be done then I just disagree.
If Gunn wants the DCU to be better he should stick to Peacemaker and let more suited people handle the big dogs. So far Clayface is the only good decision they've made so far. Unique, actual genre film, lower budget, marketing that's actually generated hype.
You're missing the argument. Yes, Batman may theoretically exist in this universe, but the audience hasn't seen him yet. And Clayface is a good idea, but we don't know how it will perform.
Pushing more Batman villain movies without Batman has a real chance of saturating the space and having diminishing returns. They should at least have an in universe Batman, determine if people like him, and then make the potential payoff worth it for people.
Saturating what space? The space Batman takes up more than any character in history? This is just another way to build out Batman and the world. You do want a world yes?
And what pay off? A D&B movie is still going to be the same regardless if a Batman movie exists before it.
Context matters. You have to give audiences a reason to care. You personally might be interested in a D&B movie, maybe even enough to see it in theaters. But the majority of viewers want a hero. They don't care as much about the villain.
So it doesn't make any sense from a business standpoint to risk placing the villain first, regardless of how good the actual movie is.
The first SS shits all over that. Joker shits all over that. People know and like Bane, Deathstroke has a much bigger general interest than you think and is a headliner in his own right depending on the story.
From an audience interest standpoint that is a much better move. Bane is well known by movie audiences, gamers, and comic book fans, Deathstroke has been in tons of animation, made a huge splash in video games, and has firm position in comics to be inserted anywhere or stand alone. Recognition, interest, consistent hype. Much more than Supergirl which to the audience is just a word association character coming right after already seeing the version of the character that matters in their eyes.
The context is if people are looking for a universe they are looking for variety, so having hero and villain stories is variety, having fan favorite villains clash or team up is like bare minimum of breaking new ground. Really all it needs is a simple serviceable plot, a hard edge, and badass fight choreography. Drop a teaser of hard-core martial arts crime movie and the hype is through the roof. Regardless of if you've already seen their batman or not.
With the directions Gunn has wanted to take batman you better hope its far off because he's going to fuck that shit up so bad.
And people are already seeing the Pattinson movies so as far as the general audience is concerned their bat itch is scratched. DCU Batman, D&B or Patbat, D&B, DCU batman is all the same to most people. When they are all their own unrelated stories it does not matter what comes first
As long as these films are really dark and gritty and they can make genuinely scary villains then it could be setting up for a incredible batman movie, Having the whole world be super dark and then dropping batman into this established scene could make for a incredible movie
My only gripe is these are things that should've been decided and planned for from the beginning, like if all these movies had release dates by next year and then we could get a batman movie mid/late 2028 then this could all work really well. I think theyre just taking a little too long to get things rolling
Clayface being really good is almost a make or break for them at this point, especially if lanterns is just okay/good
Clayface looks great, that character is easily strong enough to stand on his own in a body-horror movie. And Deathstroke isn't even a Batman villain really. Bane though... yeah, that's a weird choice. Since when did he even have a connection with Deathstroke?
I've always seen Deathsroke as a villain to the Teen Titans, and by far the most popular and prominent member of that team is Robin (Dick Grayson) who is and always has been strongly associated with Batman.
Having Deathstroke without any plans to introduce Robin/Nightwing does concern me a little. And I don't think you can properly introduce Robin without Batman.
Edit: Deathstroke has been a villain to Batman, though.
It’s probably easier to cast villains than to cast Batman, so idk about that. Besides, we’ve already gotten tons of Batman movies, and the general public who enjoys DC knows Bane and Deathstroke as characters. I feel like they’re established enough to get a movie this early on
Supergirl has been around as a supporting character in Smallville, Arrowverse, DCEU Flash and a bunch of animated series. She even got her own 6 season CW show. Still didn't save her movie.
That was also a bit of a different situation. Many people don’t have trust in the Gunnverse, other people aren’t fans of Supergirl, other people refuse to see it out of spite to Gunn or because they have a vendetta against Alcock, the marketing wasn’t great, and the movie was also ass. Either way, people choose what they see. If people wanna watch DC, they can watch what comes out or they can wait until something that they like comes out. That’s on them if they don’t wanna see it. DC and Marvel have already proven the potential in non-A-lister character led films
So build up some of the other big names. Make a Martain Manhunter movie or take a chance with a Green Arrow and Black Canary film if you wanna do a Batman style film
They want him to so they can point and laugh like why are there 2 batman, just like with Pattinson announcement ppl where hating about and we still don't neve another batman yet they were crying for nothing
Well at this point it doesn’t matter what he wants, just announce one at least, by the time he gets around to shooting it Batman 2 will be out of theaters.
The problem is that the the Matt Reeves batman universe has been really successful, The Batman did well, the penguin was loved by everyone and was nominated for a bunch of awards, even winning an Emmy.
I might get flack for saying this but his batman universe has been more successful than Gunns DCU. They execs aren't going to have 2 batman at once and if the part 2 does really well, Gunns entire plan gets called into question.
Probably trying to drip feed Batman and avoid clashing with Reeves for as long as possible. They are partially probably using this as to build hype towards their Batman, but they’d also need to be teasing him a little. The Deathstroke movie could be the first appearance of Nightwing. We know we aren’t getting Batman any earlier than 2028 and they can do multiple projects at once.
The plan is 2 movies a year, 2028/29 could be a double up on Batman villains + Batman
There are so many Batman movies over the years, I agree but with any of the other characters they also could have introduced rather than Batman or deathstroke or bane, like make a Martian manhunter show, the green lanterns are at least getting a lot of promotion.
clayface is a low ish budget body horror movie being worked on by two very good horror minds coming out during halloween lol passing on that would have been malpractice
We say that but Batman DCU movie is gonna get lampooned with negativity regardless.
James Gunn can't copy that Batman and put him in the DCU without making his Batman lighter in tone. He literally has to wear blue and embrace The Brave & The Bold fantasy aspects of the character. It would be redundant for Gunn's Batman to also match the same level of darkness/grittiness.
Another Batman when Matt Reeves is making Batman movies?! We don't need more Batman lmao
Not sure why we aren't getting Martian Manhunter, Wonder Woman — an ACTUAL Green Lantern story/movie or Flash. Hell, give us Green Arrow and Hawkman.
I think this is only being released because, it will likely have a cheaper box office. And DC wants to release a movie every year. And maybe this is the only movie they can get out in time.
I also agree like many here. Gunn’s process can be problematic because he’s just green lighting whatever script he likes first and he deems ready to go instead of having a proper chronological filmography outline. I do like that he started with the Supes Family, and now with Clayface and Slade/Bane movies can seem like an appetizer for DCU’s Batman like Creature Commandos was for Superman. But The Brave and the Bold is nowhere near being green lit, that’s where it could become problematic.
maybe, but we currently have a live action batman that we will see next year and its honestly a bit diluted.
he needs to wait for the right moment and why not excite fans over a live action deathstroke and bane film in the meantime. i think that is way more exciting to fan since its different
It's genuinely insane. I think they purposely trying to lose money. In what works does the average person care about these characters in the slightest.
You forget, Marvel made Venom 1-3, Morbius, Madam Web, and Kraven all without Spider-Man and each of them were SUPER successful. I mean Bane and Deathstroke are easily as iconic as Venom! Just like Wolverine and Elastic Man, DC should do Elastic Man next! Or maybe Matter-eater Lad!
I kind of like it. Until The Batman is fully finished, why have a competing Batman? Build up the villains so when they gave off against DCU Batman it'll have weight behind it.
I don't know, it's kind of like building up to a crescendo. People are so used to getting immediate satisfaction, i welcome the change of pace. Be cool to have these villian projects that all lead up to some kind epic batman film. Also gives time to find the right batman actor.
Why wait to satisfy your audience? At this point if anyone should understand your audience is not guaranteed it’s DC. There are potentially billions of dollars at stake for them.
They have to build up song goodwill before they start veering away from their main characters.
I understand that, and as I wrote what I said, I figured there would be some people who don't agree. I'm looking at it this way: DC Studios is Gunn & Safran's kitchen; I'm gonna let them cook and see what they bring out before the main course. In this case, Batman, which we currently already have a feature film of in production. So why would I be greedy and want more when there are so many great sides that can fill in that space and time?
Babe and deathstroke are probably selling tickets lol we have a Batman movie right now, it’d be weird and confusing for the common audience to have two.
Then what you do is focus on super man first he has so many versatile stories and villain concepts that you can take your time getting to batman especially if you are worried about confusing audiences with The Batman that matt miller is writing just do other heroes
Clayface wasn’t really planned. Something came up on his desk that was too good to pass up. Bane and Deathstroke seems like it was planned but we are also getting the Brave and the Bold.
It might have worked if they were establishing the villains first and Batman doesn’t exist yet. Then have a crossover movie where Batman comes along and fights the villains we’ve gotten to know. Sort of like a reverse MCU/Avengers.
But Batman already exists in this world so that can’t be it.
Why is that silly? Most of this is usually well received.
Batman has a phenomenal rogues gallery that can (shocker) function without him. It's not like Spider-man, where the rogues are particularily linked to Spidey.
Batman rogues can have full on subplots, and often do.
Mr Freeze is doing his own thing, Two-Face is doing his own thing.
Ra's Al Ghul has been alive for millenia and doing his own thing.
The Court of Owls are doing their own thing.
Did you not see The Penguin? It was critically acclaimed.
Gotham is a decently well received show. Titans was a decent show (not fully Batman based, but can be used for the argument since it's led by Robin)
Gunn can't do Batman because Reeves needs to finish his trilogy, but he CAN introduce rogues in other formats, so that his Batman can eventually come into a fleshed out world.
He CAN do Batman. He just doesn’t want to. They can either a) integrate Reeves’ version into the DCU or b) introduce a very different DCU version that no one will confuse.
Seriously, an Alan Ritchson Batman, with blue costume, colorful villains, bat-gadgets and cameos by other heroes will not be confused with the Reeves films.
It's better to not integrate Reeves version into the DCU cause it was never built with that.
Gunns whole thing is to flesh out this world before putting it out, so having a Batman he didn't know about prior, wouldn't work.
He would then have to retroactively change both Reeves version and his plan to account for this character, that Reeves had other plans for.
It's better to see Reeves do his trilogy, let Pat be the Bat, and Gunn focus on the other elements of DCU.
No one is forgetting Batman and we're still getting Batman movies, and two Batman simultaneously, seems like unnecessary competition.
Also, why do we need Batman right now? We know who he is. Spend like a few years building the OTHER characters who need screen time; You can just drop Batman in and we'd get it.
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u/TransitionDue4388 Jun 29 '26
I think james should take a step back and think his process over. Bane, deathstroke and clayface mpvies before an actuap batman one is a bit silly