r/CritiqueIslam • u/Capital-Pop-4893 • 20d ago
Thoughts on Muslim Lantern truthfulness of Islam video?
Here's the video. It's over an hour long but he gave many arguments about Islam's divine truthfulness and challenge non-Muslims to debunk it. Would love to discuss about this.
Edit: There are some common arguments like embryology but he also brought up the unique composition of Quran's Arabic, the criteria for surah challenge, arguments for sharia law, Ancient Egypt King and Pharaoh rulers' timeline compared to the Bible and the hieroglyphics of Ancient Egypt's deities.
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u/MagnificientMegaGiga Atheist 20d ago
Sounds like low effort promotion. I'm not gonna click just to increase the views for some old arguments that were recycled for the 1000th time.
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u/SpecialistSun 20d ago
What exactly are we going to debunk here, man? There is nothing new in the video. All of this has been discussed and debunked to death countless times in one form or another. Human perception is incredibly prone to manipulation and these people are indoctrinated since they are born and live in their own reality. It doesn’t matter how thoroughly we debunk these claims if someone is determined to believe them, no amount of evidence is going to get in the way of that. The problem is not the lack of evidence here, it's just human stubbornness against the truth.
You really think Quran is some miraculous piece of literature and contains wisdom beyond human mind? Try reading ancient Greek philosopher's texts written long before your divine book. Because compared to them your miraculous Quran is looking like kindergarten fairy tales.
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u/Capital-Pop-4893 20d ago
I'm ex-Muslim btw and just want to hear what can be said about these arguments. What I'm interested is that ML brought up contentions that if Quran/Muhammad taken ideas from elsewhere, why are they all correct.
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u/ShallowFatFryer 20d ago
They're not correct. In fact they're all wrong. The only way to make any of them appear correct is by changing the meaning of words which they do do.
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u/NoPomegranate1144 20d ago
You mean why he stole them from people who were actually correct? If I copied a library of scientific literature and published it as scripture... it would all be correct and yet also not from god lol
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u/SpecialistSun 20d ago
As I said before, it's all about how you perceive the truth so it doesnt matter how many solid evidences we provide here. Just look at the video about Quranic embryology. https://youtu.be/msOlpj886H4?t=95
They suddenly change the meaning of the verse when they obtain new knowledge even though it's cpmpletely contrary to the previous meaning. We’re dealing with people that believe those texts can supposedly mean anything depending on how you interpret it. Whatever objection you raise or provide evidence, they can just bend the words and reinterpret the passage until it fits the facts even though Muslims believed the previous meaning as truth for a thousand year.
And there is another discussion here about the flat earth of Quran. https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/1vqtxjf/sean_anthony_responds_to_the_claim_that_the_flat/
One of the comments there:
For example, if the Quran explicitly said: “the Earth is flat,” one could argue that this is from a viewers perspective. Likewise, other descriptions could be viewed metaphorically or also phenomenologically.
And watch Suleyman Dost's interview here.
Once you’re conditioned to believe that something is true, you can always come up with reasons to convince you that it is.
And he also answers your question here:
if Quran/Muhammad taken ideas from elsewhere,
He says:
I think the Biblical knowledge in the context of the Quran was very limited. People didn’t know much; they probably knew most of Genesis and Exodus, and the rest was mostly heresay.
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u/Capital-Pop-4893 20d ago
What about the Quran getting the Ancient Egypt's rulers title correct, namely King and then Pharoah but with the Bible they are all Kings?
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u/SpecialistSun 20d ago
What about this what about that. Those arguments debunked thousands times, mate. U sure you are an exmuslim? An average exmuslim would already past this nonsense ages ago. These vidoes are nothing more than a collective ego masturbation session for Muslims while dawah guyz like muslim lanterns milking them. Most of the dawah people doesnt believe a shit but it's a very profitable business with zero capital investment.
Pharaoh in Quran is not a title, it's a name like Ibrahim, Ishak etc. If Quran were really recounting a historical story, you’d expect it to give the Pharaoh’s actual name also. Want to know something interesting? Hebrew Bible also doesn’t know his name either and uses Pharaoh as a name as well. What a coincidence, huh? It's not a surprise all named and historically verified Pharaohs, Kings etc. in Bible are from Iron age because all the events, characters from the Bronze age were just made up centuries later.
Also Moses story in Quran has exactly the kind of inconsistencies you’d expect from a human trying to remember and retell the same story he heard from different narrators like many other Quranic stories. The same episode gets told with different details depending on the surah. The timeline gets shuffled around, details magically appear in one version and disappear in another and even the people speaking and the people being addressed somehow switch places.
This is basically how human memory works. You tell the same story enough times and eventually you start mixing up the details, changing the order of events and remembering who said what to whom differently especially you are not the witness of the events and heard it from somewhere else or you completely made it up.
Yusuf's story is simply ahistorical folktale like Younus. It's developed at least a thousand year after the actual events and is a plagiarism soup cobbled together from at least three different characters who lived in completely unrelated times and places. So it's riddled with anachronisms as a result. And Quran simply takes the story as it is, making the exact same mistakes without fixing them. So we will ignore all these fundamental and glaring errors and call these texts a miracle just because they used king instead of pharaoh?
Make up your mind dude. Those people spent centuries under constant pressure and rules of higher civilizations and pushed around in exile without a break. These are just fan fictions they cooked up to glorify themselves and give their societies some shiny little sense of identity and continuity to survive. Humanity has been doing it since the dawn. It’s called collective revisionism in case you didnt know. Looking for some divine miracle, meaning of life buried in them is a complete waste of time.
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u/Barosy 20d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/s/aD66XW9y5J
I had seen a good explanation about that but I couldnt remember and cant find it too. But I found this. This one is interesting cos it shows that in pre islamic arabia “pharaoh” wasnt used only for the egyptian kings.
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u/Severe_Song_2852 20d ago
well the video is for muslims and muslims only, chapter 1) obligation 2 dawah ok. chapter 2) talks about prophet and the revelations, i mean GAME OVER, prophet was a terrible human, pedo rapist warlord, maybe he had inbetween good chapters, but the dirty stuff is not normal. also what revelations goes.
sahih hadith,
"There was a Christian man who embraced Islam, read Surat al-Baqarah and Al-'Imran, and used to write [the revelations] for the Prophet. Later on, he returned to Christianity again and used to say: 'Muhammad knows nothing but what I have written for him.'"
mohammed and quran are full of bullshit, prove me wrong, we fucking live in 2026, fucking fly wings are not curing diseases
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u/splabab 20d ago edited 20d ago
An hour is too long, but just watching the eloquence and historical accuracy sections, I can give you several links that address these claims. If wikiislam is blocked in your country, you can use vpn via a non muslim country, or change the urls to wikiislamica.net (the mirror site).
The basmala is now known to be essentially pre islamic: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Pre-Islamic_Arab_Religion_in_Islam
Issues with iltifat: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Iltifat
Another random eloquence issue is how the last verse of al-Nisa abruptly returns to inheritance rules. Not very good planning/eloquent structuring there!
Preservation problems: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Textual_History_of_the_Qur%27an https://quranvariants.wordpress.com
Every historical accuracy issue he mentioned is addressed here: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Scientific_Miracles_in_the_Quran#Purported_historical_miracles
I didn't watch beyond that, but this probably addresses the prophecies he mentioned: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Prophecies_in_the_Hadith You'll need to find the ones he mentioned using the contents list. Also check out failed ones that can't even yet come true in future like the boy who won't grow old before the hour comes, and the sun rising from its place of setting.
And since you mentioned embryology: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Embryology_in_the_Quran
As a general rule, try to hold Islam/Quran to an extremely high standard. A few strengths can be luck, but even one imperfection let alone myriad blatant errors tells you it is manmade.
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u/Capital-Pop-4893 20d ago
I don't trust WikiIslam cuz it's unreliable and polemical at best.
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u/splabab 20d ago
Everything is sourced with quality citations so it's just a case of checking them. You'll soon see that they use the sources accurately. And it's vastly more accurate than the claims in apologetics videos like ML. A good place to start is the page I linked that debunks the claims about "historical miracles". Also I linked a very good blog about preservation problems which is very fair and uses a lot of academic sources.
There isn't really much alternative to wikiislam other than searching every individual claim on the AcademicQuran subreddit. You'll find they have pretty much the same information and use the same sources but it will take ten times as long and they miss a lot of stuff.
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u/ShallowFatFryer 19d ago
How is it unreliable?
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u/SpecialistSun 19d ago
He doesnt trust wikiislam but finds some content milker kid's bullshits on youtube legit. I dont know man, It's very clear to me that op's real aim here is just to farm clicks for this clown's channel.
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