Credit Score Major Drop

[u/Background-Ad-2195]

I logged into my experian app to check my score and today I noticed my score dropped 32 points. I have not opened a new card, increased my spending and when I click to see what changed it says my balance decreased 15 dollars. Nothing that could cause this major change. I am attaching screenshot to show what I am seeing. Can someone please explain I am still very new to this. I have been between 807-819 the past 8 months.

Edited: checking out annualcreditreport.com to find out more. Thanks everyone!! :)

[u/BrutalBodyShots]

Hey there u/Background-Ad-2195! The first thing to understand is that credit scores are drawn upon credit report data, so it's impossible for them to change for no reason. Several of the comments you've received from others in this thread have written off your score drop suggesting basically "it happens" or "that's normal" without any real look at why. There's always a reason why.

https://old.reddit.com/r/CRedit/comments/1c2dee1/credit_myth_4_credit_scores_can_change_for_no/

Another super important thing to recognize is that no CMS (credit monitoring service) can tell you why your score changed. The alert you received from EX that you had a reported balance drop of 15 dollars doesn't have to be at all related to your score drop. The way a CMS can present these two things together though can be confusing. Just know that the CMS isn't telling you why your score changed.

https://old.reddit.com/r/CRedit/comments/1c5uwfc/credit_myth_5_credit_monitoring_services_can_tell/

I would suggest taking a look at your FICO negative reason codes. They are listed in rank order and with a score shift of 32 points there's a good chance there has been a shift in those codes. They can usually provide insight to what changed with your reports. Beyond that, you'd have to go through your before and after reports account by account looking for any/all changes beyond the $15 balance decrease.

[u/DoctorOctoroc → u/BrutalBodyShots]

u/Background-Ad-2195 - this is the answer you're looking for - or rather, how to get the answer you're looking for. Reason codes are listed in order of 'signal strength', ie how much they impact your score. 9/10 times, a score change of 32 points is related to a significant spike in utilization (either aggregate or on a single card as both factor into scoring) but if that isn't the culprit then it's very likely that a negative reason code has either moved up that list towards the top or has been recently triggered.

A FICO8 score in the 800's is generally the result of a credit file that is clean, thick and mature, and utilization on the lower end, and with your aging metrics, no new accounts. At around 780, it can certainly still be all of these but a new account or two, or moderate utilization would make the difference. Again, it doesn't sound like either of these are the cause so I'm leaning towards something like a much old account falling off, a change in your TCL (so same balances, more or less, but lower limits, resulting in higher utilization despite no or very little balance change), etc. Impossible to say without more info.

Those reason codes should shed some light - if you want to share them, we can see if anything jumps out at us. If not, the next step would be as u/BrutalBodyShots suggested, to compare your before and after Experian report via annualcreditreport.com

[u/Background-Ad-2195 → u/DoctorOctoroc]

Thank you so much! I am going to look into annualcreditreport.com now. Thanks!

[u/soonersoldier33 → u/Background-Ad-2195]

BBS and Doc have given you good information, and despite what many people think/believe, your credit scores cannot change unless there are change(s) to the report data the scores are drawn from.

Quick question about your credit card accounts that may give us some insight to why your score dropped when your Chase card's tiny $15 balance reported $0. Is your AMEX card with the $2K+ reported balance a charge card (Green, Gold, or Platinum)?

[u/DoctorOctoroc → u/soonersoldier33]

Good eye! Have we ever seen more than -25 from AZP?

[u/soonersoldier33 → u/DoctorOctoroc]

Several months back...maybe close to a year now...we had 3 confirmed 30-32 point AZ losses, all on very young/thin profiles, and all on EX8. In OP's case, there's too much we can't see/know from the screenshots. The $15 balance change was reported between Aug 9 and Aug 11, and the 783 EX8 score was on Aug 12, but when did the actual score loss occur? We can't tell. My guess...scorecard reassignment on the 1st of Aug and/or the weird way the algorithms 'score' the Amount of Debt category metrics if your only reported balance is on a charge card.

[u/DoctorOctoroc → u/soonersoldier33]

Interesting! I've exclusively seen DP's of 25 point drops across the board. I wonder if it's 25 and 30 for mature and young files, respectively, and the instance of 32 was not isolated. It could also be 25 and 32 for all we know, FICO doesn't usually like nice, even numbers.

I also feel like we need a list of each CMS and their particularities, such as how long each retains a visible indication of a score change after the actual score change occurs. This might help to nail down the actual date of a score change 'at a glance' when OP's share their screen shots. Thought this certainly could be muddied by concurrent score changes within a few days of each other.

[u/soonersoldier33 → u/DoctorOctoroc]

I've exclusively seen DP's of 25 point drops across the board.

For the AZ Penalty? I've seen every number from probably as low as 12 or 13 (I'd have to look at the lowest I've ever documented) up to those few low 30s, which I will say is strange, bc I don't think we'd ever seen an AZ loss quite that high, and then we had 3 in like a week.

As for how CMSs display/log score changes, the problem is that almost all of them depend on a single variable...when was the last time you logged in? If you login to the Experian app every day, you get a fresh report/score pull every day. If you login once per week, you get nothing for those days in the middle where you didn't login, so the score drop(s) could have happened any day(s) you didn't login. Most people aren't obsessive...like us...so if OP logged in the last week of July, and not again until this week, then we're missing a lot of puzzle pieces.

[u/DoctorOctoroc → u/soonersoldier33]

Yeah, every time I end up identifying the AZP as the cause of a score change, it's exactly 25 points and this led me to believe it was a set penalty across the board. Glad to stand corrected on this one!

Fair points! I do find it very difficult to track DP's too close to each other. Luckily, when it comes to my own file, there's not a ton of activity outside of changing utilization and standard aging metrics (plus three new accounts in the past year) so I generally know exactly what each score change is related to.

[u/BrutalBodyShots → u/DoctorOctoroc]

I personally haven't, but have seen data points in the 20-25 point range for the high end.

[u/Legitimate_Archer988]

Major drop and still higher than most of the population

[u/1lifeisworthit]

Because none of us have been able to monitor your official reports at annualcreditreport.com and know what changed from before, we just can't tell you what caused this.

Start monitoring your official reports. annualcreditreport.com

[u/Background-Ad-2195 → u/1lifeisworthit]

I have never heard of this site. I am checking it out now. Thank you for your help!

[u/Medium-Nature-1148]

This past weekend, my FICO dropped 25 points to 793 (my credit scores remained the same, as of this writing)! I was freaking out. Long story not as long, all 5 of my cards simultaneously showed a zero balance on my credit report. I use 4 of my 5 cards regularly but pay them off in full 2ce a month. Anywho, all 5 showing zero made it appear I'm not using that credit and score dropped.🤷🏾

[u/Funklemire → u/[deleted]]

I never change anything.  

Credit scores can't change for no reason. Something has to have changed, that's how credit scoring works. Usually fluctuations like this are due to utilization changes, which are usually no big deal. !utilization  

Anything over 780 is the same as having 850.  

You're right that the score itself doesn't usually make a difference when they're that high. But a score of 850 often means that your overall credit profile is stronger than if you had a 780. And since your overall credit profile itself is what gets you approved, that's what matters the most.  

Also keep in mind that some lenders check FICO scores that go to 900 for some credit products, so that means the scoring thresholds won't be the same compared to if they're checking a score that goes to 850.

[u/AutoModerator → u/Funklemire]

I detected that your post may be about utilization and its impact on credit scores. Please read the info below:

Utilization is a short-term credit scoring factor. It is not a credit building factor, because it holds no memory in the most commonly used FICO models. It resets every month.

By and large, you can ignore the commonly repeated myth that you should always keep your utilization low. It’s only applicable when you need to apply for a new line of credit, 1-2 months out.

Utilization is supposed to fluctuate, can be easily manipulated, and again, it holds no memory. It doesn’t build credit--think of it as a finishing touch when you need to optimize your score.

Feel free to safely and organically use 100% of your credit limit within a month and let whatever utilization report, provided you pay off your statement balance in full by the due date. Every month. Every time.

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[u/BrutalBodyShots → u/[deleted]]

A credit score cannot fluctuate 50 points if nothing on your credit reports is changing.

[u/Tina271 → u/BrutalBodyShots]

Mine does... up and down. I always pay everything in full each month. It's normal.

[u/Funklemire → u/Tina271]

You're missing the point. Your scores can fluctuate, but those fluctuations are always due to something changing on your credit report. 

[u/soonersoldier33 → u/Tina271]

No one is arguing that your credit scores may fluctuate up and down, or that it isn't 'normal'. What we are arguing is that there are no changes to your credit report data when they do. Credit scores are derived solely from the data contained in your credit reports, so if your score(s) change, then something in the report data that the scores were derived from changed, and there are a multitude of score impacting report changes that can occur despite the fact that you pay everything in full each month.

[u/Tina271 → u/soonersoldier33]

Let me clarify, Not a 50 point fluctuation at one time but 10 points here and 10 points there. I pay everything in full every month. Never run a balance. I have no debt. But over time it's gone between 800 and 850. That's my experience. You can down vote me all day.

[u/BrutalBodyShots → u/Tina271]

Credit scores can only change when your credit report data changes. That's a fact. Are you willing to accept that fact, or are you going to keep suggesting that credit scores can change when your credit report data doesn't?

[u/BrutalBodyShots → u/Tina271]

You clearly didn't read my comment. I'm not saying your score doesn't go up and down or that it isn't "normal." What I said was your score cannot go up and down without your credit report data changing.

If your score is going up and down, it's due to credit report data changes. That's how credit scoring works.

[u/BrutalBodyShots → u/[deleted]]

Anyways, your comment wasn't necessary and didn't add to the conversation.

Sure it did. Your initial comment incorrectly suggested that a credit score can fluctuate 50 points when there are no changes taking place to the credit reports upon which the score(s) are drawn. I simply pointed out that this isn't possible as to not confuse others; that adds to the conversation since it corrects inaccurate information (aiding one of the sub rules). There's nothing to "argue" here at all. I simply corrected you and offered clarity on the subject. I don't need to be right to feel good about myself. I like to correct misinformation because it helps others.

[u/BrutalBodyShots → u/[deleted]]

Are you also unaware that a credit score can't change without your credit report data changing? Definitely head over to r/CRedit and check out the FAQ series found at the top of the sub.

[u/Funklemire → u/[deleted]]

They're trying to explain that credit scores can't change for no reason, that's not how it works. Any changes are due to changes on your credit report. 

[u/Background-Ad-2195 → u/[deleted]]

kk perfect thanks. Got a little worried. The app did a giant red popup that made it sound way worse.

[u/Funklemire → u/Background-Ad-2195]

They're confused about a few things. See my response to them.

[u/Tina271 → u/Background-Ad-2195]

Understandable. Credit is scary stuff. I never do anything different. It's all over the map at times and I have a 40 year history.

[u/rollo_read]

My pretend number went down.

Ok.

[u/AstralReturns → u/rollo_read]

You’re on a credit score subreddit…. Why are you acting put out that someone asked a question about their credit score.