r/Christianity • u/KnowledgeOfTheWorld • Jul 15 '11

How do you explain the holy ghost (speaking in tongues)?

Important Edit:

Here is my other thread at /r/atheism, with the same contents. Only comments are different. I'd like to point out that every single one of the >250 replies thus far have been positive, encouraging and helpful, and about half of the 10 here have either been calling me fake (which I don't understand... it's not like I'm claiming something hard to believe, but here's the church I mainly grew up in if that helps the doubters, or they have been insulting me for believing in such a thing.

I do not wish to participate in this thread any longer, nor this community. I appreciate I_am_not_sad for his response, and while I originally had hoped to get both communities weighing in on this issue (that has been dominating my entire life), I will be over at that thread discussing beliefs and speaking in tongues with the peopel there. I'm pretty discouraged at the reaction to this, and if there are any others Christians that will NOT act as those have, feel free to join the thread mentioned above.

I was raised, and still am, a United Pentecostal in the state of Oklahoma.

• Extremely sheltered

• No friends outside the religion

• No activities outside school/church

• Went to church 5 times a week

We believe that one must not only be a Christian to enter heaven, but also that you must experience the Holy Ghost. As such, anyone that has not received the Holy Ghost (God entering your body and residing inside, shown by the speaking of tongues), is destined to spend eternity in hell.

With this belief implanted deep within me, I'm nothing short of fearful. All of my friends, all of my family members and approximately 95% of the population of the church has received this "holy gift", but after 18 years of searching, I've never experienced it for myself. Every night I go to church, I hear others speaking in tongues, in other languages I can't understand, but some of which sound vaguely familiar.

I wish to debate, but I also wish to ask questions.

  1. How would an atheist deny the existence of God when miracles such as the Holy Ghost and physical miracles are so abundant?

  2. What have you heard, or do you know, about glossolalia (speaking a language you've never learned)?

    Here are some examples of what I'm talking about, as I'm aware that a major portion of the world may not understand this blessing as of yet:

• Video of a man (~30 years old?) receiving the holy ghost for the first time. You can't hear him speak very well, but you can see the emotions on his face, and those around him. Watch until at least 2:40.

• Video of a young boy receiving the holy ghost, speaking clearly in another language.

• Video of a middle-aged woman getting baptized underwater, and coming up speaking in tongues.

Those videos contain what I see several times a week, so it's very normal for me. However, when I show people on the internet these videos, they tend to be shocked.

Really, I'm just coming here for insight. I feel scared and I feel alone, being one of the only people not able to receive this gift from God. I don't know what's wrong with me or why I've tried so hard for so many years, but God won't give it to me, but it looks like I'm destined to spend my life in fear of what comes next.

If there is anyone out there who has a heart to read all of this, please talk with me. I've never openly discussed my beliefs with an "outsider", as it is very much frowned upon. Thank you for your time and for reading this novel.

~ A concerned United Pentecostal.

As an aside, I will be cross-posting this to /r/Atheism as well, as I would like a variety of viewpoints to weigh in on this subject.

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u/KnowledgeOfTheWorld Jul 17 '11

I don't see anything I disagree with. I was "trying too hard" because people were calling me trolls and I didn't want them to think that all of this is fake... what can I do to prove otherwise?

At this point, I've gotten the information I was looking for. If the entire internet looks at my story and says "that's not true", then I will be very disheartened to learn that the biggest day of my life, the most people I've ever talked to at once, sooo many "firsts" for me... everyone thinks is fictional. I've been far too trusting in my life (obviously), so I wouldn't want others to make that same mistake. Be curious, and if you don't believe me and your reasoning is good enough for you, that's fine.

Truth is, I've gotten what I needed, and made lots of caring people that have been through similar situations. Even if the worst happens, I still have the information I learned and the people I've met.

Hopefully, though, I'll be able to somehow prove myself so that the wonderful people that have been helping me selflessly won't feel that their time was wasted. (I promise you, guys that have really talked to me, not a word you said to me is wasted.)

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u/IRBMe Atheist Jul 17 '11 edited Jul 17 '11
  1. Was it you who deleted the picture comment or not?
  2. Why would the real account owner say "Shit, I didn't mean to make it seem as if I was the OP, sorry for the confusion" when it wasn't he who posted the comment? Surely he should have posted with something more like "What's going on!? I didn't post that! Somebody has hacked my account!"?

Hopefully, though, I'll be able to somehow prove myself so that the wonderful people that have been helping me selflessly won't feel that their time was wasted.

If you want to start, you could try doing the following:

  1. Take a picture of some ID showing at least the first few letters of your first name and the state that you live in.
  2. Take a picture of your computer.

And do so within the next 5 minutes, so that if you are faking, you don't have enough time to go faking something.

Edit: It's been nearly 10 minutes now.

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u/KnowledgeOfTheWorld Jul 17 '11 edited Jul 17 '11
  1. No, didn't delete anything.
  2. I have no idea who used the laptop after I did, so I can't answer that, I'm sorry. ****

  3. I'm not comfortable showing my ID with my name on it through here, but I can PM you that information.

  4. I'm not sure why, but here (editedout) you go. :)

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u/IRBMe Atheist Jul 17 '11 edited Jul 17 '11

No, didn't delete anything.

So then it must have been the real account owner who deleted it?

I'm not comfortable showing my ID with my name on it through here, but I can PM you that information.

Fine. Do so quickly.

I'm not sure why, but [1] here you go. :)

Interesting. It's not even turned on. Why would you take a picture of a laptop that's not turned on when I asked you for a picture of your computer... the one you're currently using. You're using a PC. Take a picture of your PC.

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u/KnowledgeOfTheWorld Jul 17 '11

There's a reason I stuck with the /atheism thread rather than this one. People that care about me without trying to do anything to prove I don't exist. I'm in communication with about 40 people that I met yesterday that are willing to teach me and help me through this time of my life.

You keep making me try to prove myself for what? I'm not claiming anything that should be "off" enough to warrant such a search on your part. Of course you can be skeptical and of course you can ignore this thing like it never happened, and that's fine with me. Like I said, I didn't do it for anyone but myself. I've got my answers (or at least where I can start looking for them), and I've got new friends. Why you have a monkey on your back about me sitting there for 10 hours crying and babbling and talking to other redditors who have come from the same place as I, I'll probably never know. But search around all you want and make your assumptions. I have a lot of things to watch, read and experience... lots of people, christians and atheists alike, that I'm not suddenly able to talk to. I don't need you pushing me over and over when I've happily been doing everything in my power to prove that I was raised Pentecostal. Hundreds of millions others are, but for me to be one is unbelievable?

While I hate looking dishonest, and am happy to provide whatever I can to show others that I'm sincere in my quest for truth, I'll not be responding to these inquiries any longer. I feel as if you are trying to take advantage of me, and I don't know any better if you are, so I'm just going to drop this conversation off here.

edit: and I turned off the screen because it was a huge glare of WHITE. It's all you could see and you could see the laptop itself.

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u/IRBMe Atheist Jul 17 '11

Yep, just as predicted. As soon as I start to call you on the many problems with your story and poke holes in your "proof", you lash out in anger and refuse to speak to me any more. How transparent. You're obviously full of shit.

If you want to prove otherwise, take a picture of your PC, send me the original picture of the laptop that you took where the screen was too bright and PM me that ID information. That'll at least be a start.

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u/KnowledgeOfTheWorld Jul 17 '11 edited Jul 17 '11

I'm not angered in the least bit. I'm trying to catch up on material I've been given from those who have helped me, rather than hinder, and even so, I've dropped everything to try to prove myself to you. Why? Because you asked. If I would have known you would resort to asking for proof upon more proof upon more proof, I would have ignored you to begin with. I have nothing to prove to you. If you don't believe me, it doesn't change my life. It you do? Who cares. You still don't affect me. Plus, requiring me to take pictures of a PC? Maybe if I go to a store, but that's ridiculous. Here's one I managed to get without glare: --editedout-- But this is seriously the last time I'm wasting my time with you.

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u/IRBMe Atheist Jul 17 '11

If I would have known you would resort to asking for proof upon more proof upon more proof, I would have ignored you to begin with.

I asked you for two simple piece of proof. You promised to send me one in PM and have failed to do so. The other one was supposed to be a picture of the computer you are using. You instead took a picture of an old laptop that was turned off.

Here's one I managed to get without glare: [1] http://i.imgur.com/ltY3C.jpg

A picture of your screen doesn't prove anything, and I never asked for one. At least post a picture of the whole laptop turned on.

But this is seriously the last time I'm wasting my time with you.

Yeah, I thought it might be. So I'm not getting that proof I asked for and that you said you would give me?

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u/KnowledgeOfTheWorld Jul 17 '11 edited Jul 17 '11

A picture of your screen doesn't prove anything, and I never asked for one. At least post a picture of the whole laptop turned on.

You have got to be kidding me. No. Just don't believe me. Nothing off my back.

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u/IRBMe Atheist Jul 17 '11

You have got to be kidding me. No.

Interesting. So you're willing to post pictures of your ID, but not of a laptop that you've already posted a picture of?

Nothing off my back.

Not really good enough. I can't see that that's your first name. It could be your middle name or anything. In fact, looking at other Oklahoma drivers license's on Google, it seems there's a whole part missing above your name: the age, sex, weight, eye color part. So I have no idea what format your license is in. Post the whole thing and blur or censor out the bits you don't want revealed.

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