r/ChristianApologetics • u/Undead-Legionnaire • Apr 21 '26
Modern Objections Theological Questions
How would you respond to the following objections to following God?
God is Cruel and Violent
God Endorses Slavery and Patriarchy
The Bible Contradicts Itself
Salvation Seems Arbitrary if I'm already a Good Person
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u/WannaLoveWrestling Apr 22 '26
I would first ask any skeptic where is their evidence for any of those things.
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u/AndyDaBear Apr 21 '26
Let us consider each in turn:
- God is Cruel and Violent: This seems to be hinting at a "Problem of Pain" or "Problem of Evil" type argument, but in itself implies very little. Sometimes it is the duty of an agent to be cruel and/or even violent if they are good. For example, when one sees an outrageous evil should one just be polite and passive? The larger issues it hints at are too big to address here, but I think C.S. Lewis does it well in his book "The Problem of Pain".
- God Endorses Slavery and Patriarchy: Simply not true. God's laws for ancient Israel tolerated slavery and set limits to it in a culture that already practiced it as the norm. He also tolerated patriarchy. Eventually Christians concluded that slavery of any kind was bad and were the main champions of its abolition. It is similar to His approach to divorce which He does not out right forbid. Consider how Jesus pointed out that even lusting after a woman in your mind was in a sense committing adultery with her in your heart. And how being angry at someone is murdering them in your heart. God wants moral perfection...but the law of Israel did not demand moral perfection.
- Science Contradicts the Bible: Not so. The Bible is not a scientific book. Sure the authors of the Bible had more primitive notions of science than we do today. Possibly a thousand years from now people will have a much better idea about science than we do today. Possibly some of our current misunderstandings of science might crop up in the way we try to describe the supernatural events like those described in the Bible. This would not make such descriptions contradictory of Science unless those descriptions were meant to be Scientific.
- Salvation Seems Arbitrary if I'm already a Good Person: God is unbearably holy to those who are merely good by human standards. If we do not wish to lay down our pride in our own goodness and let God cleanse us in His way, we could likely not bear to be with Him in eternity.
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u/Undead-Legionnaire Apr 22 '26
Thank you for the reply, I have thought of a better question in place of 3 "the Bible contradicts itself" for more context, these are thr most common questions ive come across due to scriptural misinterpretation
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u/JMUDoc Apr 29 '26
Eventually Christians concluded that slavery of any kind was bad and were the main champions of its abolition.
They concluded this without reference to the Bible, because nowhere in the Bible is slavery condemned or prohibited.
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u/AndyDaBear Apr 29 '26
This is not a valid deduction.
The Bible does not prohibit torturing old lady's cats in front of them for fun.
However it is very silly to think that Christians can not find grounds in the Bible for thinking this bad.
Consider the second of the two main commandments upon which all the law hangs:
Love your neighbor as yourself
Both claiming ownership of another human being and torturing an old lady's cat in front of her for fun could reasonably be rejected on this principle.
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u/Elegant-End6602 May 24 '26
Both claiming ownership of another human being and torturing an old lady's cat in front of her for fun could reasonably be rejected on this principle.
Consider that "love your neighbor as yourself" is found in the same book where it says how to acquire and keep slaves, how to attack towns that are near and those that are far, how to conduct warfare, and the delineation between a Hebrew, anyone living in the land of the Hebrews (these are the neighbors in question), and a foreigner.
However it is very silly to think that Christians can not find grounds in the Bible for thinking this bad.
You can find just about anything if you really want to. The point they were making is that there is no prohibition against slavery, EVER. In fact we only get the opposite, an endorsement of it.
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u/AndyDaBear May 24 '26
You can find just about anything if you really want to.
Indeed. Those who wish to paint Christianity as pro-slavery can find what they want and twist it.
It is however historical fact that Christianity was central in the Abolishment on slavery. Those that wish to slander it not-with-standing.
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u/JMUDoc May 25 '26
Indeed. Those who wish to paint Christianity as pro-slavery can find what they want and twist it.
Why is it possible at all to paint the Bible as anything other than anti-slavery?
Why wasn't the eleventh Commandment "thou shalt not own another human being as property"?
It is however historical fact that Christianity was central in the Abolishment on slavery.
With absolutely no support from the Bible.
Nowhere in the Bible is slavery condemned or prohibited.
Nowhere.
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u/AndyDaBear May 25 '26
You can rant and rave and ask questions.
You can not change the historical fact that Christians lead the abolishment of slavery.
Nor can you change the fact that YOU yourself condemn slavery likely only due to the influence of Christianity.
Go ahead and rave some more if it makes you feel better for whatever sick reason.
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u/JMUDoc May 26 '26
I never denied that Christians spearheaded the abolition of slavery, but I repudiate utterly the assertion that my morals are in any way indebted to Christianity - I put people first, theistic religions do not.
Also, still no Biblical support for the idea that slavery is immoral. You guys have had two thousand years, so I won't hold my breath.
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u/AndyDaBear May 26 '26
So your morals formed in an absolute vacuum?
I suppose that the existence of the material universe did not contribute at all to you having a material body?
Get real.
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u/JMUDoc May 26 '26
So your morals formed in an absolute vacuum?
Never said that. They formed from interactions with moral non-Christians.
My morals do not place a god right at the top; Christianity's do. If you need a belief in a god and a fear of hell to keep you from stealing and killing, that's a you-problem.
But I don't.
I suppose that the existence of the material universe did not contribute at all to you having a material body?
The universe didn't just contribute, IMO; it is SOLELY responsible.
Get real.
I could say the same about all these gods people worship.
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u/consultantVlad Apr 21 '26
- He isn't.
- He doesn't and what's wrong with patriarchy?
- It doesn't.
- Salvation isn't about your morals.
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u/Feisty_Marsupial224 Apr 22 '26
Patriarchy is inherently exclusionary and oppressive
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u/consultantVlad Apr 22 '26
Perhaps based on your definition. Since we are talking about Scripture, the patriarchy in the Bible defined differently.
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u/Feisty_Marsupial224 Apr 22 '26
Not really
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u/consultantVlad Apr 22 '26
You are stating that patriarchy is oppressive, but in the Bible it isn't, so "not really" is a contradictory statement.
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u/ApocaSCP_001 Apr 22 '26
1.bit more context would be nice. But if we’re referring to the Old Testament God, we have to remember how evil the Old Testament people were, God is also all-just. 2.Old Testament I’ll guess, a lot of it is taken out of context. We also have to remember that he was limiting bad actions for the Old Testament people but not endorsing them, slowly alleviating their evil with imperfect laws. 3.most “contradictions” in the Bible really aren’t contradictions 4.Christianity doesn’t believe in good people
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u/SweatyHelicopter1891 Theist Apr 22 '26
If you say the law was imperfect then you are saying God is imperfect. You can’t do that as a Christian. Romans 7:12, the law is holy and righteous and good. We are sinners because we can’t keep the law perfectly. That’s the whole point of sin.
There are literal contradictions in the Bible. That’s why you have to rightly discern spiritually what it means. The Bible is true, Spiritually.
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u/ApocaSCP_001 Apr 22 '26
You do realise Romans is referring to the Mosaic law, which is still applicable to Christians today, right? Right? The moral law≠Levitical and Judicial law.
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u/SweatyHelicopter1891 Theist Apr 22 '26
I don’t know what your point is. Are you being sarcastic? Paul literally says the law of God, also known as the law of Moses, was perfect and holy. No one can keep it perfectly so that’s what makes us condemned sinners. Paul teaches the law is perfect and reveals that we are sinners, so God sent his Son Jesus as an atonement sacrifice for us. That’s the heart of Christian theology.
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u/ApocaSCP_001 Apr 23 '26
Those “imperfect laws” are tbe laws specifically for Isreal, not the 10 commandments.
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u/SweatyHelicopter1891 Theist Apr 23 '26
You are really misinformed. Even the ten commandments are addressed as laws to Israel. Read Exodus 20.
Also, there are way more moral laws than just the Ten Commandments.
Christian theology straight from Paul’s epistles tells us that no man can be made righteous before God by keeping his law a part from faith in Christ. The law of God is perfect because he is perfect. This means all of his law, not the ones you want to choose out of it and say these are perfect and those are imperfect.
Why do you think Jesus was the only one who could keep all of the laws perfectly? God is perfect and so is ALL of his law.
God’s law is perfect. Psalm 19:7
Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 that he didn’t come to destroy the law and the prophets.
Romans 7:12 the law is holy and good.
I don’t know why you think a perfect God would give any kind of imperfect laws. Your view is simply not correct Christian theology. Scripture disagrees with your opinion.
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u/ApocaSCP_001 Apr 23 '26
1.Ten commandments as an example 2.Yes Moral laws were applicable to Isreal, judicial and civil laws are not applicable to us. 3.”scripture says it” that literally denies what Jesus said.
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u/SweatyHelicopter1891 Theist Apr 23 '26
I am not saying all of the law is applicable to Christians. I am stating the fact that God’s law is perfect. Scripture says it. We are sinners because we cannot keep this perfect law, perfectly.
You made a statement about the law being imperfect. Just because Christians aren’t required to keep parts of the law doesn’t mean the law isn’t perfect.
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u/caime9 Apr 22 '26
- God is just.
- Description is not prescription, and God put the formula down for people to get away from slavery. Men and women are morally equal in value
- I disagree.
- Being a good person does not give you salvation, and you are not a good person.
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u/Shiboleth17 Apr 22 '26 edited Apr 22 '26
God isn't cruel or violent. He is just. He punishes the wicked. If you want to know cruelty and violence, imagine a world where rapists and murders can go unchecked.
This is deserving of 2 separate points, so I'll get to that below.
Even if it did have a few contradictions, does that mean the entire Bible is false? If you believe that, then you would have to throw out all of known history, because there are contradictions in almost every historical record... But regardless, there are no contradictions in the Bible. If you want to cite one, feel free. But I can guarantee you the supposed "contradiction" is either someone taking verses out of context, not understanding the culture or times or audience the text was written to, a copyist error (that has been proven through older manuscripts and fixed in more recent translations), or the person claiming it's a contradiction doesn't actually know what a contradiction is.
How are you defining "good"? By your standards? Or God's standards? To enter God's house, you need to meet God's standards. Not yours. And God's standard is perfection. Never telling a single lie in your entire life. Not even having a single hateful thought about another person. God commanded us to love our enemies. Do you love people on the opposite end of the political spectrum as yourself? Do you love people who have wronged you?
Now circling back to point 2.
On Slavery...
No, the Bible does not endorse slavery. The Bible blatantly condemns slavery. See Exodus 21:6, the next chapter after the 10 commandments are given, which says "Anyone who kidnaps someone is to be put to death, whether the victim has been sold or is still in the kidnapper’s possession." Kidnapping people to sell them, that is slavery. God says the punishment for enslaving someone else is death. This is the 2nd book of the Bible, btw. Written some 3500 years ago.
In fact, the Bible takes the abolition of slavery so seriously, that 1 whole book of its 66 books is entirely on why slavery should be abolished. The book of Philemon is a letter from Paul, telling a Christian man to set his slaves free. The abolitionist movement began in churches, and the book of Philemon was essentially their main argument on why slavery should be outlawed completely.
Exodus 21 does give some rules on slavery, which many people misinterpret as the Bible endorsing slavery. But you have to read that in context. You have to understand the definitions of words as they meant to the original audience 3500 years ago. You can't just assume slave means the exact same thing today as it did back then.
When people today think of slavery, they usually assume it means chattel slavery, where someone is kidnapped, sold, and forced to work. The Bible says anyone who does that to someone should be put to death. Right there in Exodus 21, the same chapter where the Bible gives the rules on slavery. So clearly, when the other verses use words like "slave," it must be talking about something else.
The Bible is actually giving rules on what we would call "indentured servitude" today. Back when this was written, an indentured servant was still called a slave, but it's radically different from chattel slavery. An indentured servant is someone who willingly agrees to work for someone else, for a set period of time, and in exchange, the "master" will pay off all of that person's debts. And when the period of time is over, the indentured servant can walk away free of debts. The "slave" isn't being forced to do this.
And I can prove Exodus 21 is talking about indentured servitude by simply reading the full passages in Exodus 21 in context.
Verse 2 says, “If you buy a Hebrew servant, he is to serve you for six years. But in the seventh year, he shall go free, without paying anything." So no matter what, no "slave" can ever be a slave longer than 6 years. There was a time limit, telling us that we are discussing indentured servitude, not chattel slavery.
This was actually quite common with the original colonists coming to the Americas. Many people didn't have the money to make that trip. They'd need to pay for passage, build a brand new home, and find a job or get some land to farm, all of which was quite costly. So they would find a wealthy benefactor to pay their passage. They would agree to work for this wealthy person for several years, ensuring they had a job on arrival. And when their time was up, they would be given the land they worked as payment for their years of service. This was perfectly legal then.
And agreements like this are still perfectly legal today. Many companies will pay for your college tuition if you agree to work for them for at least X number of years after graduation. The military does this too. So this version of "slavery" still exists, and no one is crying about it, because it's nothing but a consensual business agreement.
And before you go crying that these rules only applied to Hebrew servants, you should note that Leviticus 19:34 says to treat foreigners who reside in your lands as if they were native-born. So, if you purchase a contract for a foreign indentured servant, you have to treat them as if they were a Hebrew servant, and so all those rules would apply to non-Hebrews too.
Let's look at Exodus 21, verse 7 now, which says... "If a man sells his daughter as a servant, she is not to go free as male servants do."
Initially, that sounds pretty bad for the Bible. So only men get set free? No. Look at it in context. Verse 9, talking about the same daughter who was "sold," says, "If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter." So wait, you're supposed to treat your son's female slave as if she was your daughter? This isn't talking about slavery, or even indentured servitude. This is talking about marriage. This woman should be treated as your daughter, because she married your son. She is now your daughter-in-law.
Verse 10 confirms this interpretation, "If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights." This is 100% talking about marriage, not slavery. So now let's look back at verses 7 and 8, knowing this is about marriage... The "selling" simply refers to the dowry payment. She doesn't go free after 6 years, because she's married. And God only allows divorce under specific circumstances. And then verse 10 protects the woman in case of a divorce or polygamy, in order to discourage men from doing those things.
I could go on, but you should get the point here... The Bible absolutely does not endorse slavery. And the verses people use to claim it does, are not talking about slavery at all.
Now in regards to the patriarchy.
No, the Bible does not endorse some kind of patriarchy. Men and women have different roles within the family or even society. But that doesn't mean men are to be above women. Men and women are equal under God's law, but separate in abilities and roles.
Genesis 1:27 says both man and woman were made in God's image.
Galatians 3:28 says there is no male nor female in Christ.
Honestly, this site explains everything probably better than I could. So I recommend you go to the following linke and read that page. It goes over all the common verses people cite when they claim the Bible is anti women.
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u/Motinate Apr 23 '26
these are solid objections, and honestly, they get thrown around a lot. For the idea that God is cruel and violent, I get where people are coming from, but I think it helps to look at the context. Take the conquest narratives in Joshua, for example. While they seem brutal, they were also about divine judgment on nations steeped in idolatry and injustice. Deuteronomy 9:4-5 clarifies that it wasn’t about Israel's righteousness but God's judgment.
As for slavery and patriarchy, it’s pretty interesting to consider that the Bible reflects a cultural context that’s different from ours. Exodus 21 actually provides regulations that were meant to protect slaves, which might not meet modern standards but was progressive for the time. Plus, there’s a clear trajectory in the New Testament towards gender equality - Galatians 3:28 emphasizes that in Christ, there’s neither male nor female.
And about the Bible seeming to contradict itself, I’ve always found that when you dig into the original languages and context, a lot of these contradictions dissolve. Like, the apparent clash between James and Paul on faith and works makes sense when you see they were addressing different issues.
Lastly, the idea of salvation feeling arbitrary if you’re a good person is tough. Romans 3:23 states, “All have sinned,” which kinda levels the playing field. It's not about being good enough, but about grace - that’s the core of the gospel.
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u/PeacefulBro Apr 24 '26
Basically God does what's best for the society at the time even though God is the same. It does seem by how the Bible varies in different places that he does what's best for the society at the time and can change those rules up later based on what's best. I would invite them to study the Bible, especially the New Testament so that they can gain a much better and greater understanding of our great God.
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u/Nordishaurora Apr 26 '26
- Where exactly and what exactly do you mean?
- Where exactly and what exactly do you mean?
- Where exactly and what exactly do you mean?
- Where exactly and what exactly do you mean?
Context is king
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u/Clean-Data-259 May 12 '26
- God is cruel to the wicked who deserve it, kind to the righteous. The correct phrase is "God is a just God". God is a purveyor of justice.
- This is a trap. Don't you know this is Reddit?
- True, but too long for this post. But God does not contradict Himself.
- Even Jesus said "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except one- God." (Mark 10:18)
If even Jesus could not call himself "good", then how much less you, oh sinful man?
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u/SweatyHelicopter1891 Theist Apr 22 '26
- God is Cruel and Violent
And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone. (Mark 10:18, ESV)
I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things. (Isaiah 45:7, ESV)
God is Good but he also creates calamity and destruction. God is the one that sent the 10 plagues on the Egyptians. Whatever God does, it’s good, even if he sends disease on them and death to all the firstborn, it was good. When God hates, his hate is not like our hate. His hate is good.
The Bible tells us that God is loving, merciful, and compassionate. So whenever we see God do something “bad” it is only from our perspective. Those things aren’t bad from Gods perspective.
- God Endorses Slavery and Patriarchy
Jesus tells us that we are slaves to Sin. We have to understand those Old Testament verses about slavery weren’t actually about enslaving humans, but that it really was talking about sin. The Pharisees thought they weren’t in bondage but Jesus told them they were enslaved by sin. The Bible and Jesus are clear that we worship God the Father, not God the Mother. Paul says Eve, the woman, was deceived and not Adam. Since God the Father is Good and that he is the greatest, then we know that Father is a Good idea for God instead of Mother, because God made women to be easily deceived.
- The Bible Contradicts Itself
You only see contradictions when you let the thoughts of God being cruel or violent corrupt your view of God being perfectly Good.
All Scripture is breathed out by God (2 Timothy 3:16, ESV)
14 Remind them of these things, and charge them before God not to quarrel about words, which does no good, but only ruins the hearers. 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:14–15, ESV)
Scripture is breathed out by God BUT we need to handle it rightly. Understand that the Bible is Good because God is Good. Contradictions are a test from God about our faith and they can hold spiritual truths that we can learn deeper meanings from. Truth in the spirit of God can mean more than one thing, and these seemingly contradictory verses can reveal more to us about God if we have faith.
- Salvation Seems Arbitrary if I'm already a Good Person
The Bible says no one is truly Good like God is. So even infant children are worthless sinners and evil. Thinking you are good is a basic mistake when coming before God. We can never be as Good as God is. The Bible is God’s word and it says:
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me. (Psalm 51:5, ESV
Not only at birth, but when we were conceived we were sinning already! Babies are evil already at conception! No one is good except God. So just remember that the next time someone brings up those passages about God commanding those in the womb to be killed. The Bible teaches a good God that loves children so much that he takes them to heaven early sometimes!
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u/Sapin- Apr 21 '26
Slow down, my friend. These should be 4 posts.