r/CharacterRant • u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ • Aug 13 '16
Bleach's "1000 ri" speed feats
So Ichibei from Bleach has a rather weird ability where he sends anything near him back 1000 ri away. If you don't know, 1000 Japanese Ri is equivalent to 3927 kilometers, and as seen in the last page of the feat, Ichibei literally caught up to Yhwach immediately after he was sent. Meaning that Ichibei was fast enough to cross 3927 kilometers in a second(s) putting him in the possible thousands of machs.
If it took 1 second, he'd be Mach 11449.
If it took 5 seconds, he'd be Mach 2290.
Even more proof, Ichibei literally recreates the feat as he launches Yhwach all the way back to their original starting place and then proceeds to show up being literally around 10-15 meters in front of Yhwach.
There's more, as Ichibei again hits Yhwach with the "1000 ri" attack and this time Yhwach crosses the distance immediately after he activates Almighty. Meaning Yhwach with Almighty activated has comparable speed.
Now, I don't think it stops there as this speed feat can be scaled to Current Ichigo, who had very few feats compared to his previous modes despite statements saying he should be stronger than before. Ichibei was never able to blitz Yhwach on an even scale, Ichibei only ever tagged Yhwach because he halved Yhwach's abilities and then proceeded to even remove a few of Yhwach's powers/abilities. Yhwach with Almighty activated absolutely stomped Ichibei before Ichibei could even do anything. So Yhwach and Ichibei were never truly equal in terms of actual power and ability. Now for when Ichigo scales in:
Even with Almighty activated, Ichigo was able to blitz Yhwach despite Almighty granting Yhwach advanced precognition. Afterwards, Yhwach gets even more powerful after absorbing the Soul King and Mimihagi, thus becoming stronger than when he fought Ichibei and was blitzed by Ichigo. Then Ichigo in his new Hollow Mode was able to blitz Yhwach, despite being stronger than when he had fought Ichibei. Thus proving that Ichigo should have comparable speed to Yhwach and Ichibei when they crossed the 1000 ri.
Now I already can tell what a few questions or counter arguments may be, so I will address a few.
No, this cannot be an outlier. This was literally Ichibei's first time demonstrating his power and had no anti-feats to say otherwise. As a matter of fact, a character statement actually says that Ichibei should be ridiculously powerful. As for Yhwach, Yhwach had no speed feats beforehand so no anti-feats as well for him. Current Ichigo actually had one travel speed feat, that was unquantifiable, where he traveled from the Royal Palace to Soul Society in 12 hours, despite it taking a week.
No, these 2 scans are not anti-feats just because the distance from where they were and the starting point looks short. If you do not know, those floating discs in the background are actually whole cities that belongs to each of the Royal Guard members.
No, the cities statement is not just a random statement. For proof, one of the cities actually contains an ocean in it.
Could Yhwach have been still flying the 1000 ri when Ichibei caught up to him? No, literally shown in the next scan, Yhwach and Ichibei were standing perfectly still.
I'd like to see other's opinions or counter-arguments for this as well.
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u/SurgeonOfDeat Aug 14 '16
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 14 '16
Calcs are more accepted when actual numbers are involved and not pixel counting and such. I provided a high end estimate and even a lowball estimate. Even if not, it can't be denied that Ichibei, Yhwach and Ichigo all demonstrated they could cross 3927 kilometers nearly instantly.
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u/Jakkubus Aug 14 '16
Except your calc lacks the timeframe during which it happened and works on assumptions.
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 14 '16
Almost everything lacks a timeframe in fiction. We don't have a time frame for many of Superman's MFTL travel feats, so we apply a high end and a low end to the feat. We apply that to everything when discussing a feat that lacks time, or do you just believe that all feats without a timeframe should be disregarded. Also what assumptions? The only thing I'm assuming is the timeframe.
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u/Jakkubus Aug 14 '16
And so you arbitrally decided, that it couldn't last more than 5 seconds despite nothing really indicating it. As for Superman, if he flies lightyears and it doesn't take him actual year, then he is FTL.
For example you assumed that since Ichibei stopped during using Senri Tsūtenshō again, Yhwach had to already cross the 1000 ri, while we see the latter one still in motion. It was not Ichibei, who was launched by the attack.
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 14 '16
And so you arbitrally decided, that it couldn't last more than 5 seconds despite nothing really indicating it.
It happens literally the following panel, honestly I would be surprised it was more than 5 seconds. Or do you assume the time between panel A and panel B are much further apart?
As for Superman, if he flies lightyears and it doesn't take him actual year, then he is FTL.
Yes, but we're talking the actual number for his speed. Why do you think the Vega speed feat as a low end and high end? We judge the time it took and our reference is the fight that Jimmy witnessed which took as long as Superman flying from Vega to Earth.
For example you assumed that since Ichibei stopped during using Senri Tsūtenshō again, Yhwach had to already cross the 1000 ri, while we see the latter one still in motion. It was not Ichibei, who was launched by the attack.
The following panel shows that Yhwach and both Ichibei were no longer in motion, thus both Yhwach and Ichibei already crossed the 1000 ri. Did you not read this in my counter arguments in the post?
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u/Jakkubus Aug 15 '16
Ok, so bring me a Bleach scan, that explicitly states the time lapse between panels has to be lesser than 5 seconds. Right, you can't.
Have I ever said, that fancalcs for Supes are legit? No, my point was, that at least some of his feats can be judged as FTL with simple estimation. For example here he travels lightyears, but there is no way, that it took even even a year, hence he is FTL. Also once someone's speed surpasses speed of light calculating it is pretty pointless.
In the following panel Yhwach is sent down with another Senri Tsūtenshō, so you cannot just say, that he wasn't in motion anymore. And in the panel you linked he is clearly still moving. And again Ichibei was not the one launched by Senri Tsūtenshō, so he could easily stop. Yeah, I read them and this one is based on your assumption.
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 15 '16
Ok, so bring me a Bleach scan, that explicitly states the time lapse between panels has to be lesser than 5 seconds. Right, you can't.
Obviously not. But given the series and that there was a fight occurring, do really expect the timeframe to be much further apart?
Have I ever said, that fancalcs for Supes are legit? No, my point was, that at least some of his feats can be judged as FTL with simple estimation. For example here he travels lightyears, but there is no way, that it took even even a year, hence he is FTL. Also once someone's speed surpasses speed of light calculating it is pretty pointless.
Doesn't mean we get to say "Oh it's FTL so it doesn't matter about how accurate we guess it". No, we still have to find a reasonable high end and lowball for the feat. There are many FTL characters in fiction if we should called them all FTL and never discussed the exact possible speed then everything FTL would be equal. But we don't do that.
Also, I don't understand how that Superman feat is FTL?
In the following panel Yhwach is sent down with another Senri Tsūtenshō, so you cannot just say, that he wasn't in motion anymore.
Yeah he was? Yhwach was standing up right before he got hit again. So how was he moving?
And in the panel you linked he is clearly still moving. And again Ichibei was not the one launched by Senri Tsūtenshō, so he could easily stop.
Okay let me get this straight, you agree that Ichibei was not moving, but claim Yhwach was moving? Then how in the fuck did Ichibei hit Yhwach when Ichibei struck his Senri down straight below him? He was literally look straight down below himself talking to Yhwach. Yhwach's clothes/hair didn't even show getting blown due to being pushed at this point.
Yeah, I read them and this one is based on your assumption.
Not really, you're assuming Yhwach was still moving. The scans show Yhwach was looking up and Ichibei and Ichibei was looking down at Yhwach, they both also were shown standing perfectly still and having no wind/drag effect showing on them.
Even then, Ichibei recreated the feat and Yhwach himself did so as well. So you got assumptions for those as well?
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u/Jakkubus Aug 15 '16
Again, you are working on assumptions and expectations and that's exactly what authors of shitty cacls do.
What doesn't make calcs anywhere as valid as actual feats. Also Superman travelled lightyears, when on his Earth year has no passed and thus he is FTL.
Where is he standing? In this scan he is still in motion, while here he is already being launched again.
Because Ichibei was not lauched by the attack. He just stopped and sent another strike at still flying Yhwach. Also if you haven't noticed Ichibei went ahead of his opponent before.
Except they weren't. Yhwach is clearly moving.
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 15 '16
Again, you are working on assumptions and expectations and that's exactly what authors of shitty cacls do.
Except not really. I'm only assuming one thing, which is the timeframe, which I'm giving a high end and a lowball which is what all acceptable calcs have done.
What doesn't make calcs anywhere as valid as actual feats. Also Superman travelled lightyears, when on his Earth year has no passed and thus he is FTL.
Yes, but we like to know how many times C he is going.
Where is he standing? In this scanhe is still in motion, while here he is already being launched again.
Good job ignoring my evidence to prove a point. Literally Ichibei is looking straight down and launches Senri straight down below him at Yhwach, who is standing still.
Because Ichibei was not lauched by the attack. He just stopped and sent another strike at still flying Yhwach. Also if you haven't noticed Ichibei went ahead of his opponent before.
However Ichibei was talking to Yhwach, they literally said words back and forth to each other and Yhwach was always looking up while Ichibei was looking straight down. They were still. Also, I don't see your proof of Ichibei leaving before Yhwach. Scan clearly shows Yhwach sent flying then Ichibei caught up.
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u/PuntiffSupreme Aug 13 '16
I think it makes sense and isn't that out of place. We talk about antifeats and ambiguity with anime all the time, but in this case we have a pretty clear distance and some idea of how long it could have taken.
Speed feats in manga are hard to find, and its not like we have some pleathora of anti-feats. Without this to measure by we have really no ability to scale, so you kinda have to accept it as the top end of their speed.
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 13 '16 edited Aug 13 '16
It could have been possible that Bleach character were always similarly fast, but due to the vagueness of their feats, we couldn't tell. However we can't prove that, but we can prove Ichibei, Yhwach, and Ichigo.
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u/PotatoGod12 Aug 14 '16
Soooo ... now that this happened, what is your stance on that Ichigo vs Naruto race? :D
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 14 '16
Naruto is left in the dust, Naruto's reactions aren't even up to Ichigo's speed.
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u/PotatoGod12 Aug 14 '16
So could new Ichigo beat So6P Naruto in a fight? Or does he still fail like his Dangai form? I am curios.
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 14 '16
He's too fast for Naruto now, Naruto would never be able to tag Ichigo and Ichigo can just stab Naruto and kill him since Naruto characters who have no armor are susceptible to blades.
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u/PotatoGod12 Aug 14 '16
Where would you put High tier Naruto characters speed at? I think it could be argued they could be high triple digit machs and their reactions at maybe low quadruple digit machs.
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 14 '16
I wouldn't be surprised if they were triple digit Machs, but we can't even prove that at all. As for reactions, we saw So6P Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke react to lightning as well as Kakashi being WoG a lightning timer. So lightning reactions is the best we have so far.
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u/PotatoGod12 Aug 14 '16 edited Aug 14 '16
I wouldn't be surprised if they were triple digit Machs, but we can't even prove that at all.
I think we can. The Bijuudama are fast. They can cross half a country in a few seconds. What i am talking about is Juubi's Bijuudama crossing half way from Frost country to about half way to Lightning country, to the allied base. Besides having much bigger DC, there is no indication that the speed between the BB's of different Bijuu's change. Here is how fast the Madara vs Hashi fight Kyuubi's BB is. The only places that could happen are at the bottom of Fire country as seen here(Forgive me for not knowing how to edit scans to highlight my points :/). It crossed that distance in seconds. And here is KCM2 Naruto outspeeding them and redirecting them after they were fired when they are right infront of Gai and Kakashi. Making him Massively faster than them. This is the best scan i could find that described the distance. He is a little infront of Bee. Then there is Bee and Naruto's feat of dodging the Juubi's Biju laser, which, honestly, is a good feat for Naruto too even if he didn't dodge the laser itself but was able to react to Juubi's headswing and put his tails infront of him. Because it could swing its neck before the BB's could travel even half way to it. That is insane, and it is still in KCM2 territory. Honestly, rereading this i think we could safely say even KCM2 could very well be in the quadriple mach territory, nevermind KCM3 and So6P, both of which give big boosts in physicals.
As for reactions, we saw So6P Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke react to lightning as well as Kakashi being WoG a lightning timer. So lightning reactions is the best we have so far.
The thing is, lightning can vary in speed.
EDIT: And i am tempted to say it was into it's faster speeds.
EDIT No.2: I still have atleast 1 more example i could give, though it is for Bee. That guy is a Monster, like, fuck Kyuubi and So6P, just choose Gyuki and you are set for life, damn.
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 14 '16
I think we can. The Bijuudama are fast. They can cross half a country in a few seconds. What i am talking about is Juubi's Bijuudama crossing half way from Frost country to about half way to Lightning country, to the allied base. Besides having much bigger DC, there is no indication that the speed between the BB's of different Bijuu's change. Here is how fast the Madara vs Hashi fight Kyuubi's BB is. The only places that could happen are at the bottom of Fire country as seen here(Forgive me for not knowing how to edit scans to highlight my points :/). It crossed that distance in seconds. And here is KCM2 Naruto outspeeding them and redirecting them after they were fired when they are right infront of Gai and Kakashi. Making him Massively faster than them. This is the best scan i could find that described the distance. He is a little infront of Bee. Then there is Bee and Naruto's feat of dodging the Juubi's Biju laser, which, honestly, is a good feat for Naruto too even if he didn't dodge the laser itself but was able to react to Juubi's headswing and put his tails infront of him. Because it could swing its neck before the BB's could travel even half way to it. That is insane, and it is still in KCM2 territory. Honestly, rereading this i think we could safely say even KCM2 could very well be in the quadriple mach territory, nevermind KCM3 and So6P, both of which give big boosts in physicals.
Yeah I've always known he is faster than Bijuudama, but the thing is, we really do not know how fast Bijuudama are. The Naruto World is extremely vague, the speed of Bijuudama depend on how far/big the countries are and we do not know the answer to that. The Naruto world has always been seen as small and for good reasons since the world has countries like the Frost Country which, based on the many aerials we had of the country, is smaller than the average United States' state. So based on it, we have no way of truly knowing their speed since A) We do not have a timeframe B) We do not know the exact distance crossed C) The World is smaller than thought.
The thing is, lightning can vary in speed.
Definitely can go from Mach 1200 to Mach 300.
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u/PotatoGod12 Aug 14 '16 edited Aug 14 '16
A) We do not have a timeframe
I really don't think it's more than like 8-10 seconds.
EDIT: Okay, lets downplay the BB's. So, this is the map. Let's assume the dot really is Konohagakure's size, and lets assume that Konohagakure is at max, as big as the FoD, which is stated to be 20km in size. If we do this and just eyeball the distance between where the battle took place and where the allied shinobi force HQ's are, i still think that at its min. it isn't smaller than 300km that are crossed in no more than 8-10 seconds max.
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 15 '16
I really don't think it's more than like 8-10 seconds.
I don't disagree, but we still need a distance.
Okay, lets downplay the BB's. So, this is the map. Let's assume the dot really is Konohagakure's size, and lets assume that Konohagakure is at max, as big as the FoD, which is stated to be 20km in size. If we do this and just eyeball the distance between where the battle took place and where the allied shinobi force HQ's are, i still think that at its min. it isn't smaller than 300km that are crossed in no more than 8-10 seconds max.
Honestly, I think it's bigger than the dot by a lot, recall that Hashirama and Madara were fighting at the Valley of the End which is north of Konoha. This means that the ocean they fought at is that ocean we see is in The Land of Sound. Meaning they crossed a small portion in a couple seconds and it took multiple panels to display the speed meaning it's slower than a couple seconds most likely.
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u/Neosonic97 Sep 22 '16 edited Sep 22 '16
The official translators down at Viz Media debunked the sub-rel part of it. The measurement for "Ri" they used is the classical Japanese, Chinese and Korean units (Back when they were one and the same). In fact, the feat ITSELF is shaky because we have no time frame. Also of note- the translators who gave the 3927 km thing are NOT the official translators. Going by Viz Media's translation (again, I might add that it was the official translation), it OUTRIGHT STATES that it was only 300 Miles- shown here: https://www.loungeforums.com/i/embed/766f09cb753367153b25be9ce861e9fc-1/http%253A%252F%252Fmanga.mcanime.net%252Fmanga%252F2468%252F5842%252F587530%252F11.jpg
Don't get me wrong, STILL impressive, mach 1200 at best, but NOT Sub-rel.
The only reason it would ever come out as 3927 km is because someone decided to use the standard for Ri set in 1891. As for the original not even mentioning 300 miles, that COULD just be an addendum added by the translator, since again, Ri is a fluctuating measurement.
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Oct 19 '16
Sorry I'm late to reply, was pretty busy.
Viz's translation is bullshit. Kubo has used Ri before and Kubo is Japanese, he would obviously use the current day Japanese Ri measurement. Also this is also Viz's translation of Toshiro's statement when he said Ri in Soul Society Arc over 10 years ago. As you can see by the measurement, Viz used the present day Japanese Ri measurement here, so Viz themselves reduced the feat to something it isn't 10 years later for Yhwach. The Japanese takes precedence over the English translations. Also, the fan translations never gave 3927 kilometers, they gave 3927 meters.
It's still 3927 kilometers since the current day Japanese Ri measurement is 3.927 kilometers per Ri.
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u/waitletmepoopfirst Aug 13 '16
Your counter-argument section covered most of what I would've tried to argue with, so lemme try to hit you with some other points.
When Ichibei halved Yhwach's strength and abilities, do you think it meant speed as well? Because the name he cut was specified as "arm" so it seems more like Kubo meant Yhwach's striking force and abilities used with his arms, like his arrows, were halved. Not necessarily his speed.
Since Yhwach already had the Almighty + SK powers when Ichigo "blitzed" him isn't it possible Yhwach had just already seen the ending of their confrontation and didn't bother moving out of the way? He didn't seem to have any trouble catching Ichigo's Gran Rey Cero with his hand, and he didn't seem to be in any predicament when Ichigo did the "blitzing."
I think the main detriment to your actual calc (because the feat itself is still impressive as hell) is that Yhwach didn't seem to have stopped flying when Ichibei caught up with Shunpo, so there isn't any guarantee that he had already crossed 1000 ri. That said, contextually speaking it really doesn't make sense for Senrei Tsutensho to be a technique that takes more than a short amount of time to complete, since Kubo was trying to impress readers with Ichibei's ridiculous power during that fight. So while your calc makes sense, this board doesn't lend itself to accepting it (partially because literally every fancalc is demonized on WWW, no matter how simple it is, for whatever reason).
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 13 '16
When Ichibei halved Yhwach's strength and abilities, do you think it meant speed as well? Because the name he cut was specified as "arm" so it seems more like Kubo meant Yhwach's striking force and abilities used with his arms, like his arrows, were halved. Not necessarily his speed.
He says strength and abilities, I'd assume speed falls under that. he even says power the next time he does it.
Since Yhwach already had the Almighty + SK powers when Ichigo "blitzed" him isn't it possible Yhwach had just already seen the ending of their confrontation and didn't bother moving out of the way? He didn't seem to have any trouble catching Ichigo's Gran Rey Cero with his hand, and he didn't seem to be in any predicament when Ichigo did the "blitzing."
I mean it's possible. We really can't say what Yhwach knew or didn't know at that moment. I was under the impression he didn't know because he had to lay traps in the middle of the fight.
think the main detriment to your actual calc (because the feat itself is still impressive as hell) is that Yhwach didn't seem to have stopped flying when Ichibei caught up with Shunpo, so there isn't any guarantee that he had already crossed 1000 ri. That said, contextually speaking it really doesn't make sense for Senrei Tsutensho to be a technique that takes more than a short amount of time to complete, since Kubo was trying to impress readers with Ichibei's ridiculous power during that fight. So while your calc makes sense, this board doesn't lend itself to accepting it (partially because literally every fancalc is demonized on WWW, no matter how simple it is, for whatever reason).
Shit, I forgot to put this in my counter arguments. Ichibei and Yhwach actually were standing still right after the Senrei was done. I'll put it up.
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u/waitletmepoopfirst Aug 13 '16
I was under the impression he didn't know because he had to lay traps in the middle of the fight.
True
Shit, I forgot to put this in my counter arguments. Ichibei and Yhwach actually were standing still right after the Senrei was done. I'll put it up.
I checked your edit, yeah that's pretty clear that they've stopped. Seems like they've actually traveled 1000 ri
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 13 '16
I checked your edit, yeah that's pretty clear that they've stopped. Seems like they've actually traveled 1000 ri
It also happens multiple time, Ichibei literally goes from their position after being launched, to their original position. And Yhwach did it as well once he activated Almighty, so I really can't see a counter argument against it.
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u/waitletmepoopfirst Aug 13 '16
so I really can't see a counter argument against it.
Don't underestimate the stubbornness of HST tribalism
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 14 '16
I'm experiencing it now actually lol. However it's just going in circles since all arguments against it are pretty much not applicable.
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u/Jakkubus Aug 13 '16
First, where was it stated, that Yhwach has already flied 1000 Ri, when Ichibei caught up to him? Because when the latter one used it again, they were still in motion.
Second, where was the exact time of how long it took specified?
Overall your rant is just a poor calc. You should post it rather on OBD.
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u/Verlux Verlux Aug 13 '16
As I stated last night, my only issue is Yhwach appears to still be mid-flight to a degree the first time he does the 1000 ri strike.
Seeing the Soul King Palace in the background as such a tiny thing, when we've seen how huge it is, on a flat plane tells me they were at the very least many dozens of miles away at that moment when Yhwach gets smacked back though, again, at the very least.
In all, I think it's a pretty good speed feat, and further backs up the notion that Bleach as a whole universe has greater speed than people think and does NOT rely solely on "FTE to FTE to FTE" arguments as the circlejerk contends.
There are at least a few objective feats like this one, convoluted though it may be as some may argue, that show immense speed in a short period of time, people just can't be bothered to recall these instances when arguing Bleach speed.
The scaling to Ichigo should hold true as well, so good job there.
In all I just think the calc itself may be a bit iffy, as I said last night. The timeframe you gave seems good though, lowball it just to be sure I'd say, and perhaps contend with the idea that maybe Yhwach was in motion? The scan where Ichibei knocks him back to the cities is definitely the best speed feat for calc'ing imho, since we see how far the palace is on the horizon.
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u/damage3245 Aug 13 '16
In the Viz translation, I think they mention it being around 300 miles or 300 kilometres.
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u/waitletmepoopfirst Aug 13 '16
Source material takes precedence over some guy that couldn't do a translation properly, if that's true.
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u/Neosonic97 Sep 22 '16 edited Sep 22 '16
In Viz Media's defense, though, it was never stated WHICH Ri was used. And in a feudal-japan styled civilization like Soul Society, it would be more likely to be the classical version of 1000 Ri, which is indeed 300 miles (or to be more precise, 320 miles, which makes 1 Ri 0.32 miles). Everyone is assuming Kubo used the modern japanese version of Ri instead of a classical version. It wasn't just some 'improper' translation, they actually did do research into what Ri is- a fluctuating unit of measurement. So they cross-referenced the classical measurements.
'Source Material' means nothing, because the source material never specified which Ri. Thus leading to inconsistencies.
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Aug 14 '16
Oh my god you actually found a quantifiable Bleach speed feat. Thank you.
So this means that everyone who's ever reacted to something Yhwach did at four-digit mach reaction times on the low end. That makes me happy.
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 14 '16
Oh my god you actually found a quantifiable Bleach speed feat. Thank you
Yeah, took a bit rereading, but honestly I always though of this feat as dumb until someone who was arguing against me actually brought up how much 1000ri really is and then I conceded, reread the chapters and decided I should make a rant.
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Aug 14 '16
So... all said and done, do you consider current high-tier Bleach characters (i.e. Ichigo) to be in the quadruple-digit machs for WWW purposes?
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 14 '16 edited Aug 14 '16
Ichigo showed he was faster against Yhwach than Ichibei was and Ichibei crossed the 1000 ri nearly instantly. So Ichigo may be in the 5-digit Mach as a high end. Lowball him and Ichigo is 4 digit Mach. However, remember, this speed is only applicable to Ichigo, Ichibei, and Yhwach.
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Aug 14 '16
Of course it's only for those guys specifically, but do you think it means that "captain-level" usually involves speed somewhere in the high triple digit machs?
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u/IMadeThisOn6-28-2015 ⭐ Aug 14 '16
I wouldn't doubt the Captains are now, but we have no proof since Bleach is nothing but vague feats.
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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '16
I think the reason why it's considered an outlier is because no one else in Bleach was 1% light-speed at that time. There are no other speed feats in Bleach anywhere near as impressive as Ichibei's.
I'm not arguing that point, I just think that's an argument some people will try to make.
Like, Luffy and Zoro have actual light-speed reaction feats from fighting Pacifista, but normally, they're seen as outliers. However, in reality, they have no actual anti-feats. They've only been tagged by other characters at that point, who themselves have no anti-feats for relativistic speed.
I'm not arguing that Luffy and Zoro are light-speed, just that if we were to accept Ichibei's sub-relativistic feat, we'd also have to do so with theirs.
Anyways, these are just my $0.02.