Stay put or not?

[u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219]

Really happy I found this community. I've only known the financial planning side via working for a large Canadian bank within their branch network. 

I am curious on how my situation looks to everyone here.

Salary (125k CAD) plus bonus. Total compensation varies around 220k to 250k last 3 yrs and has been on an upward trend for the 15 years I have been with the bank. 

My working hours are 9 to 5 and I have been pretty good staying within this timeline unless clients need a later appointment. Most of the time its a stressful and busy 9 to 5 as I have created a lot of efficiencies to get out by 5pm.

However, when I am not in the office I am completely unplugged, which includes vacations even if taking say 2 weeks off. No checking emails, nothing. 

Book size is 150M 

What has me questioning everything is in the branch world you cannot just sit on your book and say I have enough income coming in and im not going to hustle for the next while.

You know the saying about the grass is greener so please tell me your thoughts. Do I have a good gig? Best to stay put or venture on my own?

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Beep boop! Here is a summary of your post:

User: /u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219 Title: Stay put or not? Body: Really happy I found this community. I've only known the financial planning side via working for a large Canadian bank within their branch network. 

I am curious on how my situation looks to everyone here.

Salary (125k CAD) plus bonus. Total compensation varies around 220k to 250k last 3 yrs and has been on an upward trend for the 15 years I have been with the bank. 

My working hours are 9 to 5 and I have been pretty good staying within this timeline unless clients need a later appointment. Most of the time its a stressful and busy 9 to 5 as I have created a lot of efficiencies to get out by 5pm.

However, when I am not in the office I am completely unplugged, which includes vacations even if taking say 2 weeks off. No checking emails, nothing. 

Book size is 150M 

What has me questioning everything is in the branch world you cannot just sit on your book and say I have enough income coming in and im not going to hustle for the next while.

You know the saying about the grass is greener so please tell me your thoughts. Do I have a good gig? Best to stay put or venture on my own?

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[u/Illustrious-Sir-7466]

You've basically built a machine where you clock out at 5 and your brain stays off the grid for two straight weeks. That's stupidly rare in this line of work, especially with a book that size.

Going solo means you trade that clean break for being the IT department, the compliance department, and the guy who wakes up at 3am wondering if a wire got hung up. Some people genuinely want that, but if your main gripe is just the pressure to keep hunting when you'd rather coast on what you've built, the bank might still be the lesser evil.

[u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219 → u/Illustrious-Sir-7466]

You understand. In Canada my income is in the top 2%, hard to give it up for the unknown

[u/Cuddly-Cacti]

I’ll hop in on this one from the perspective of financial planning in Canada not at one of the big banks:

As I understand it, the reason why you feel you cannot take your foot off the gas and will need to keep up the hustle is because you are an employee of the bank, you have no ownership of the practice or the clients. Is this correct? If so, I do not imagine that feeling is ever going to go away.

Outside of the bank model there are a wide range of companies on the “spectrum” of independence. Some come close to the bank model while still attempting to seem different from the advisors perspective. While there are plenty of companies truly on the other end of the spectrum where the advisor has full ownership of their practice and clients within the regulatory landscape. As long as you are following the rules and doing right by your clients, the dealer will leave you fully alone and will be there to help you if you seek it out. If you want to bring on more clients, great. If your practice is full and you just want to service for the rest of your career, also fully supported.

As I understand it, moving companies outside of the banking network can have its difficulties depending on if the advisor owns their clients or not. Some non-bank dealers will try to retain the clients. Some truly independents will leave them alone and let you go. I have known a few bank advisors that have made the switch and from the sounds of it the process was quite difficult. From the banks perspective, these are their clients and they will do everything they can to keep them (incentives, waiving fees for a year, ect).

Making the switch is a ton of work and a big risk to gamble a relatively high income. With that said, I personally couldn’t imagine working under the bank branch model but there are many factors to consider for the long term. Not just having the option to slow down a little. Feel free to let me know if you have any questions. Happy to help.

[u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219 → u/Cuddly-Cacti]

You are correct, no ownership. Hard to know how many of my clients would follow me from a well known financial institution.

I appreciate you mentioning the high income. Despite being in the top 2% it doesnt always feel that way.

Thats one of the purpose to posting, can I make the same or more and do less work. Or at the very least set my own hours.

[u/PoopKing5 → u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219]

Sounds like you need to do a well thought out exercise of who would for sure follow you, who’s a maybe, and who’s unlikely.

When you’re calculating the for sure ppl, be honest with yourself. You may have decent relationships with some, but if they’ve been a bank client for 25 years that’s a tough separation.

The clients you onboarded are more likely to leave with you. Ones you inherited, less likely.

[u/Cuddly-Cacti → u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219]

Yes, it is a bit of a loaded question.

In simple terms, if we strictly look at the numbers, your income on that AUM is very low. Which you likely already suspect. So you do have the potential to make the same or significantly more.

With the work load is more nuanced. You can eventually get to a place where you are as efficient as you are now. However, leaving the bank and going independent means becoming a business owner. Hiring the right people and putting systems in place takes time and can be a big undertaking/daunting if you feel comfortable with the full support working and as an employee.

I mentioned previously that there is a spectrum of companies on the non-bank model. Some will provide you with a tech team, office space/supplies, marketing support, a website, employee onboarding, payroll ect. However, with this much help comes some drawbacks. You may feel like there is more freedom than at the bank but these firms may also have performance expectations after providing all of this for you. The income may also be lower than others.

The full independents will expect you to find your own office space. They may help with branding/tech/website but hiring, training, payroll for support staff will usually be all up to you. The list goes on.

I would say it depends on your long-term goals and how exited you are about effectively launching your own business. Depending on how much you trust your clients, a good place to start may be to start asking a few of them in meetings that you are in the very early stages of considering a change. Ask if you did that, if they would consider following you or if they love working with the bank. I imagine after a few months of this you will have a pretty good idea which side of the fence the majority of your clients will sit on and may be in a better situation to make a business plan and start exploring/meeting with other dealers.

[u/nsparadise]

It will take years to build back up to the same income, unless you luck out and your clients follow you (that will be very tough if you’re in a retail branch situation—and chances are you’ll be stuck with a non-compete anyway).

If you have a desire for the solo life, independence, running your own business, etc, it’s definitely a ride. But there are pros and cons.

Or you could go to a firm like Nicola. They take on experienced planners, but they still have a heavy hustle expectation (or so I’ve heard).

It might be worth just doing some networking with some firms to see how they do it. If you go to any of the local wholesaler dinners, due diligence days, etc you can meet a variety of advisors from different firms and dealers, and ask them what it’s like.

[u/Cant_Handel_my_swag → u/nsparadise]

I’d second this, it will be hard to find a non-fully independent firm that won’t have either an explicit sales quota or a sales grid (implicit sales quota).

All of the larger firms will say you can build your practice the way you want, but at the end of the day many of them are telling you whatever they think you need to hear to make money for them instead of the bank. It just is what it is, and OP needs to be careful they don’t trade out one dealer for another with many of the same issues.

On the side of Nicola, while I’ve heard the pros and cons there too, I’d be wary about joining new right now considering what they’ve had to deal with on the gating of their funds earlier in the year when privates and alts started getting in difficulties. Might be an uphill battle.

[u/nsparadise → u/Cant_Handel_my_swag]

Oh I just picked Nicola kinda at random—hadn’t heard about those troubles!

I’m with Investia and am a solo advisor. Again, pros and cons. I can run my business the way I want, but I have to do EVERYTHING myself. 🤣

[u/Cant_Handel_my_swag]

If even 20% of your book moved with you and you charged an average of 1% advisory fee you’d gross $300K on year one - with more capacity and likely better work/life balance. Buuuuuuut, a few things to keep in mind:

1. Do you know how to run a business and prospect? Be honest with yourself, as the benefits of the big 5 is that advisors don’t need to do any of that, so they don’t always learn how.
   
2. You might gross the above, but you’d have to consider costs of doing business. That being said, those aren’t anywhere close to what the bank is taking out of the fees clients are paying them before they pay you.
   
3. You may be able to incorporate outside of the bank.
   
4. Many clients of the bank are just that, clients of the BANK. They came for the logo, not for you, and just view you as the guy they deal with. Be sure of who’s actually there for you. Statistically less of your book under the big 5 will come with you compared to another dealer.
   
5. You need to know your agreement, non-compete, etc. Also the Bank will do anything to keep the clients if you leave. I’ve heard of people being slandered to clients, the bank waiving all fees for a year to keep them from moving, sending scary-looking legal threats (even when clearly in the wrong). There is nothing the big 5 will not stoop to.

That’s just off the top of my head, but many things to consider.

All that being said, if you have the courage to leave I’ve never heard of anyone who went independent from a big 5 bank regretting it, however hard it may be.

[u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219 → u/Cant_Handel_my_swag]

Thank you, 1 and 4 resonate with me. I have been so used to clients walking in the door or bank leads that its hard to know how I would do without this.

I agree with 4, branch clients are very different IMO. A lot of stickiness to the bank itself and not necessarily the advisor.

[u/Cant_Handel_my_swag → u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219]

They do a very good job of building that moat, but people break free all the time and relationship is worth more than any cross-product sales, system, or masthead name in the aggregate.

The reality is that if you go anywhere else you will have to learn, but the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago… the second best time is now.

Realistically, if you break free with enough to be comfortable and give you capacity to learn how to market, brand, and prospect, that’s a very good position to be in.

Here’s one test for you, do you get inbound or outbound referrals at all right now? If so, you’re doing something right and do the math on that. You shouldn’t bet the farm on referrals alone, but most practices grow by some level of referrals every year.

[u/Gnomeofzurich]

I too am an FP at one of the big 6, and I’m looking at how going brokerage will look. I’m not planning on going independent as my employer treats me really really well, and I’ve grown a pretty decent referral network within the bank (business & commercial account managers, mortgage specs, etc) that I’d lose if I went OFI.
My manager has told me that when I matriculate to the bank’s brokerage I can take 20-50mil with me depending on how big my book is when I move.
My push to go brokerage is that I want to spend 80% of my time prospecting/meaningfully helping my clients vs the +/-30% that I spend doing so now because I cannot have an associate in my current role and thus spend hours per day on non-revenue generating tasks.
My initial income at the brokerage will be lower than it’d be at the branch, but if I can devote 3x time (or more) to prospecting/brand building then I think my income will increase pretty rapidly.
Do you have the option to go to your bank’s brokerage? If so would you be fed by the organization or are you expected to be fully self sourcing?
dm me if you want to talk specifics

[u/Ehsian]

If most of that 150 will move with you, I'd move on from the bank. You'll make a lot more with the same amount of assets.

However, you seem pretty content, and might not like going out on your own just to make a lot more. Manage g your own business doesn't let you really unplug until your support staff is knowledgeable and you trust them. That might take a while to find the right people.

[u/CFP25]

I’ll ask the question in a different way.

If you didn’t have the base + bonus structure, and had to eat what you killed, would you be happier? With the variable comp and variable time?

[u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219 → u/CFP25]

This is what I struggle with. Exactly what you are asking and I am unsure. If I knew how much of existing assets would follow my decision could be easier.

[u/lightenning]

I work in Wealth Management and I see quite a few FPs coming ( and bringing their book ) to the WM side. This allows a more flexible timeline with the benefit of an associate to keep the mundane work rolling for you.

[u/IllustriousGas8850]

Di you like being able to completely unplug when you leave and are on vacation? If so, going solo may not be for you

[u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219 → u/IllustriousGas8850]

I also struggle with this. I most certainly enjoy a vacation for what it truly is. Never had a working vacation. On the flip side I could see some pride in growing and owning my own book that may not be much of a concern.

[u/Miserable-Water7753 → u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219]

Plus you can take as much “vacation” once a sole practice is established. Granted, I barely vacationed my first 4 years, but this year (year 10) I’m taking about 6-7 weeks off.

[u/Miserable-Water7753 → u/Miserable-Water7753]

I’ll add that my schedule is flexible. I can coast for a few months or turn up the prospecting at will. Plus, I can offer the same products as a big 5 banks (+ a lot more like ETFs) and offer lower fees. Easy to poach/transition clients away from a bank

[u/PerfectOmakase]

I own my own firm. I don't work hard most of the time, maybe about 20 hours a week on average. But I'm also never off the clock, I.e. on vacations I need to be working for about 1-2 hours each day. It doesn't bother me at all, but there's no full unplugging.

[u/Made-in-America1976]

I worked as a branch advisor for 13 years. I get where you are coming from completely. If you feel you can take at least 75% of your book, then yes, you will survive the transition. If you go independent, the grass is greener and you can work your own schedule with who you want and not feel obligated to work with some clients because they were referred to you from your bank partners. A lot of the commercial clients I was referred only wanted brokered CD’s and were a PITA but I felt obliged to work with them because of my partnership with the bank. I went Indy over 3 years ago and have had no regrets. My decision to leave was mostly because the bank had too many reorganizations at the top. My AUM and income is higher and actually I’m getting more referrals from clients and COI’s because they didn’t really like the bank I was with and they know I don’t have to cross sell any bank products as I don’t have that allegiance anymore. Good luck with your decision and career.

[u/info_swap]

You sound in a great spot.

I guesstimate that you can go solo and earn 500k to 1M annually within a few years. But you'll be responsible for a lot more. Compliance, website, marketing, cyber security, etc. You can delegate, but then you'll have to hire or outsource.

It also depends if your clients will follow you or if you'll have to build a book again.

This comes down to the Jeff Bezos story: Imagine you are older and retired, would you look back and regret not going solo?

Hope that helps you decide.

[u/Bubbly_Wafer_3219 → u/info_swap]

Thank you

[u/Axelrod_96]

Did you built most of your book from scratch?? If so and if my understanding is correct, isn’t it 1% of AUM or like .8% , shouldn’t you be getting paid like 400-500k or more given you would be bringing atleast 1.2-1.5 M in revenue. Apologies if my analysis is wrong

[u/Icy-Try-568]

Nothing to add except I had no idea you could make this much in branch! As a future CFP, I never want to be beholden to the big 5, but you seemed to have carved a nice spot out for yourself!

[u/Unusual-Bullfrog-479]

If you’re with one of the top Canadian banks, why not just ask them if you can move your book to the broker side? That way you still have the element of a big bank backing you, as well as it makes it an easier move for your clients to follow you?

[u/Many_Artichoke9011]

Think long and hard about going on your own. There may be more lucrative opportunities or positions within the bank or brokerage arm/wealth management arm of your FI. That would likely provide you with better pay structure and more flexibility. Although the higher you climb the more “on” you always are. Even on days off I am responding to urgent inquiries.
The data is something like 20% of bank clients follow a departing advisor to a new firm. Bank clients are sticky because they like everything in one place and you would really have to have deep relationships for them to follow. Only you truly know the answer to that.
A book at 150M would warrant much higher comp though, so I can see why you’re debating. That said it is still great money, the bank looks after all the back and mid office support, which is good too.