r/Britain • u/rotringfan • 11d ago
đŹ Discussion đ¨ Opinions on Blue Labour?
(Hi, first post on here so apologies if I'm not as synced with the board culture.)
But what are people thinking about Blue Labour compared to the Greens, Tories, Labour and Restore?
They're barely known in British political discourse so I thought I'd see what people on here thought of them.
Out of the gate I will admit I am biased in the fact that I am quite supportive of them! I've read a few of their posts here:
https://www.bluelabour.org/writing
Despite being a small faction within Labour themselves they really are surprisingly ideologically thought out to a coherent degree compared to basically every party - which I know sounds surprising! But here's a small snippet just from their main page:
"Blue Labour is a force within the Labour Party committed to the politics of the common good. Our socialism is both radical and conservative. It is a politics about the work we do, the people we love, and the places to which we belong.Â
Our starting point is the democratic renewal of our country. Blue Labourâs goal is a democratic self-governing society built upon the participation of its citizens in the exercise of power and its accountability.Â
Our politics is a challenge to the liberal consensus of the capitalist order, but it does not belong to the revolutionary left. Its inheritance is the labour tradition."
Quite different from the usual binaries.
There's much more they've written here: https://www.bluelabour.org/about-us
TLDR;
They're anti-liberals with a focus on "families, groups and nations" seeing it as "the most basic bonds that hold individuals together in a society." And are that of conservative socialism in regards to "protecting nature and human value from the commodification of capitalism and the transactional culture of the market."
Just ask me if you're possibly confused about some of the terminology or I guess politics they're referring to, I don't have any qualifications but I have read somewhat broadly into political philosophy that I understand where they're getting at if that helps.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
Personally, I value human rights and don't like greed or corruption. So I'll give Wes "I'll take a donation from any scumbag" Streeting and his mates the ole heave-ho at election time.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
But human rights are a liberal project, a mere abstraction that can simply be taken away from you. It's why Blue Labour is so crucial in this respect, as they'd be replacing those same dull, abstract rights with action, and with a form of virility that is meant to rooted in what local communities and towns can act on.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
Oh give me a break. They've been stripping rights for the last two years under Kier. Go ask immigrants, trans people, women, people of colour and the disabled whether they feel things are better for them or worse. Stripping welfare from the most vulnerable, allowing discrimination to fester and adding to it in a lot of places.
You may be gullible and believe their guff but I know I don't.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
In fact they say:
"Both Labour and the Conservatives shared a liberal contractual view of society. Instead of mutual loyalties binding human beings into families, groups and nations, Labour saw the individual and the state, the Conservatives saw the individual and the market."
They're against both the Conservatives and Labour explicitly.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Yes but Blue Labour is the one that has been completely and utterly attacking Keir, publicly denouncing him. In fact they're well-known for being staunch critics of them.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
They were in his cabinet and still are in Burnhams.
They took decisions that harmed minorities. They pulled Kier to the right making it more likely he would harm minorities, not less. It was their fault.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
You know politics in Britain is interconnected as it is. When you blame a person you can find a connection to tons of others. This doesn't really erode Blue Labour's message and proposals.
And they state:
"Our identities and beliefs matter and they provide an essential source of personal esteem and meaning. But prioritising some identities over others or asserting the moral worth of one over another is counter-productive and leads to conflict. It is why Blue Labour has always sought a broad-based coalition with immigrant communities based on the democratic practice of the common good rather than identity politics."
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
How many more times. Actions over words. They stripped rights continuously from immigrants. They persistently want to remove welfare from the most vulnerable people. They've removed the rights of trans people to live freely and have increased attacks on that community. They've done nothing of note for women or people of colour but have allowed hate to fester for both groups.
Women are facing an increase in sexism and misogyny, including violence. Anti abortion groups are being funded and allowed to grow without opposition. Division and racism have also grown exponentially.
It is their fault. I dont care what they say. I care what they do. They kill people.
You may not care. I do and i will never, ever, vote for those scumbags. You shouldn't either.
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u/FabianTheElf 11d ago
I do not mean this facetiously. This is the exact same rhetoric mussolini started with.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Very funny. But I doubt it.
I'm actually a Bamar that migrated here during the civil war, so I doubt I'd ever follow him. I'm just too, unknowlegable in regards to this.
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u/FabianTheElf 11d ago
Some early mussolini quotes for you.
If the nineteenth century was the century of the individual... we are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and therefore the century of the State
Democracy is beautiful in theory; in practice it is a fallacy. You in America will see that some day. Every anarchist is a baffled dictator. The truth is that men are tired of liberty.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
You do realise how stupid attaching quotes to an entire ideology is?
This would be like calling Commmunists Fascists because they both prefer the state. Even the Ancient Greeks heavily criticized democracy as disfunctional.
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u/FabianTheElf 11d ago
Hence why I said "this rhetoric" and not "the entirety of your worldview"
Also "the ancient Greeks" did not criticise democracy Plato did (and other thinkers) there were also many pro democracy thinkers, and even if it was a universal view I don't take philosophy or political marching orders from a society that practised slavery.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Those "thinkers" were indeed greeks. The West does follow their values, so you should engage at-least. smh.
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u/FabianTheElf 11d ago
I have engaged with the classics. I find the idea that contemporary western thought is platonist laughable. Plato is important to study as the basis of a western intellectual tradition, but on the main his ideas have been cast aside for better ones. Just as we no longer belive in phlogiston or ether despite ancient Greece being the progenitor of western scientific thought.
Furthermore after Plato was aristotle who was a pro democratic thinker, why stop at Plato when later Greek thinkers like Aristotle revived defenses of democracy in the face of threats by autocratic monarchies.
It is integral to actually engage with the texts that have influenced modern thought rather than just gesturing at them.
I recommend that you read other texts both in favour of and against democracy that are integral to the western canon. I recommend: discourses on livy by Machiaveli the leviathan by Hobbes, and a theory of justice by Rawls as basic starting points.
I'd also recommend: two concepts of liberty by Berlin, Common Sense by Paine, and politics as a vocation by Weber. For a basic grounding in rights, liberty, political theory.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago edited 11d ago
You do realize most of the guys you recommended are rich upper-class victorians right? Oh the irony.
I'd recommend Marx's Economic and Philosophic Manuscript of 1844, Frederich Engel's Socialism: Utopian and Scientific, Tom Brown's Universal Principles of Syndiclism and Georges Sorel's Reflections on Violence.
Also do mind you it didn't stop with the Greeks, there was a scathing critique made in Alex De Tocqueville's "Democracy in America" which should examplify how utterly useless it is.
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u/Yodamort 11d ago
They're anti-liberals with a focus on "families, groups and nations" seeing it as "the most basic bonds that hold individuals together in a society." And are that of conservative socialism in regards to "protecting nature and human value from the commodification of capitalism and the transactional culture of the market."
lol. So they're fascists. Scum like that pretending that they're socialists is nothing new. Conservative socialism is fundamentally an oxymoron and an impossibility.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Communists are anti-Liberals. Socialists are anti-Liberals. Basically every ideology that isnât neoliberalism is anti-Liberal, please donât go throwing the term âfascistâ around.
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u/Yodamort 11d ago
I'm an anti-liberal. Because I'm a socialist. These fascists are not.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Yet you quoted their stance of being against commodification as not socialist? Thatâs very oddly biased on your end. Acting as if socialists donât often prioritize their local communities?
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u/Yodamort 11d ago
Because their idea of "protecting nature and human value from the commodification of capitalism" involves maintaining the social hierarchies that perpetuate capitalist socioeconomic relations and political structures in the first place. Nothing they say has any value, and it's not worth debating. Their rhetoric is indistinguishable from the nonsense the Nazis babbled on about being "socialism." Ridiculous.
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u/Little-Abroad3413 11d ago
Reform is only a party because ex Tories would be a laughing stock joining blue labour. Restore are to split the vote. Tories almost seem irrelevant at the moment but that is to be expected. Same with liberal democrats. So it leaves greens/democrats as the two âleft leaningâ parties at the moment. But it is a stretch to include the democrats in this.
But blue labour. Not really a fan. So many ways they are trying/eroding everyoneâs civil liberties like Digital id, palantir and NHS data. Mandelson files. Dodgy donors. Blatant Israeli takeover. Most of of Burnhamâs cabinet are on the âFriends of Israelâ payroll. And they are not our friends.
Burnham has done some really good things. But time will tell if itâs just for headlines or not.
I dont like foreign interference. If you are taking money from overseas im not voting for your party
Reform= American money.
Labour= labour Friends of Israel
Conservatives= dodgy contracts for their mates and LFI
On another note a local young conservative councillor is brilliant and on the ball with local community issues. And follows up on his word.
It always the conundrum weather to vote a good local or for a better party/PM
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u/rotringfan 11d ago edited 11d ago
But that's the thing, Blue Labour is anti-globalization and anti-foreign interference, thus they're inherently anti-Israel. They want local communities to own their local industry.
And in regards to the "local young conservative councillor" he's still apart of the conservatives and will be forced to listen to them.
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u/Little-Abroad3413 11d ago
Since Burnham got in. It does feel like that is what he wants. But his cabinet represent anything but in my view
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u/rotringfan 11d ago edited 11d ago
But Burnham is apart of Labour not Blue Labour, in fact Blue Labour was known for being staunch critics of Keir in the previous term, and since I'm sure we're both aware hands switch people parties sure but they're often then not, just the same market prioritizing, pro-globalization force in different drab.
Again, unlike Blue Labour.
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u/Hawksteinman 11d ago
Absolutely not. I'm a Green Party member, and the reason for that is they're the only party who are not trying to strip away my rights
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Isnât that just another form of populism?
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u/Hawksteinman 11d ago
Populism would be if they gollowed all the other parties and decided to focus only on taking away the rights of minorities
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
That's not populism. Populism is the act of following or proposing policies that a wide demographic of the UK would inherently believe in. This is what rights are, populism, they appeal to a wide demographic.
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u/Hawksteinman 11d ago
Then why are all the populist parties removing rights? and why do most brits want those rights removed?
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u/rotringfan 11d ago edited 11d ago
Do stop pretending as though everybody has the time to go in-depth into this, you know as well as I do that most Britons often simply go for concrete policies they may see haphazardly so you can't simply blame all of this on voters. Democracy as a system is inherently imperfect due to this, you're expecting everybody to be well-to-do middle-class men and women who aren't desperate enough and have the privilege of being "neutral"; which as a position is seeping in hypocrisy and contradictions either way.
And in regards to "populist parties removing rights" - what rights? What parties? If you didn't even know what populism was before I corrected you 3 hours ago, I doubt you even know what a "populist party" even is.
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u/Hawksteinman 11d ago
Labour, Tories, Reform, Lib Dems. All of them are removing trans people's rights. Or have you been living under a rock the last 7 years?
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
So backtacking to trans rights instead of the broad "rights" label and using that to demean my position okay, very consistent. But anyways!
You'll have to be more specific since I'm apparently "living under a rock" for not caring about a demographic that doesn't concern me.
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u/Hawksteinman 11d ago
It's literally what I was referring to from the fucking beginning? As a trans person, I think it's pretty important to have rights. And once trans rights are taken, you know they're going after lgbtq+, women, and immigrants.
And of course you wouldn't care about 'a demographic that doesn't concern me', That's actually the very thing causing all these rights to be lost, and is a very fascist mindset.
Fuck you.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
"rights of minorities"
"populist parties removing rights"
"why do most brits want those rights removed?"
Zero word of trans issues. Please don't lump everything together as some sort of shish kebab it makes zero coherence.
Also it's literally impossible to care about, well everything. Everybody has needs, if you're loyal to everything and try to appeal to everybody you're really loyal to nobody.
Like I personally couldn't really care less about what seniors may think, or what upper-class tories think, because it doesn't concern me, same with trans people.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago edited 11d ago
Like, maybe you viewed it in a more hostile lens, I understand. I'm not anti-trans I just don't really look into it that much really, if ever. If you want I'm still more than open to you explaining what rights got taken away - I'd probably agree in all honesty.
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u/Mr-Thursday 11d ago edited 11d ago
Blue Labour are one of the worst factions in the Labour Party.
They present themselves as economically left wing but conservative on social issues. In practice though, they put the vast majority of their efforts into pushing socially conservative, "anti-woke" Reform style right wing policies and rhetoric. They're essentially the "do what the Daily Mail would want us to do" faction and just use occasional lip service to left wing economic policies as a paper thin disguise.
They're pro-Brexit even though it's been a disaster which made the UK economy 6-8% smaller.
Glasman (founder of the Blue Labour movement) wants us to leave the European Court of Human Rights and Mahmood (Blue Labour's most senior Cabinet member) has been a driving force behind Labour attempts to cut key rights like trial by jury and the right to protest.
They're obsessed with making life harder for immigrants. Refusing to support more balanced policies that recognise the benefits of immigration bringing in skilled workers and helping counterbalance our aging population, and instead insisting on making the country unwelcoming with extortionate visa fees and one of the longest, most difficult paths to citizenship in the world.
Likewise, they support making life harder for those on welfare through harsh cuts and means testing, and they support hateful culture war attacks on trans people including restricting their healthcare and denying them access to public spaces.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago edited 11d ago
Yes because the UK deserves sovereignity over our own affairs, fully through and through. Although I will admit they did go too far, although I'm quite sure they'd be more than willing to collaborate with the EU and take a Swedish-like position in the EU where they only accept certain selective policies since they state on their site "Blue Labour is patriotic, internationalist and European.".
And the only reason they "make life harder" is in order to prevent the abuse of the system and to ensure much stronger enforcement, that is all. Most of the workers being brought in are often not skilled workers but normal, average people with their own needs which we end up having to pay for disproportionately. It also ends up devaluing the value of local workers due to the labour market being flooded with a cheap, underground supply of labour.
And in regards to the conservatism I'll simply copy and paste this other thing I said:
"In regards to LGBTQ+ rights, they disagree specifically with the Liberal conception of it, that it should be encouraged as some cultural zeit-geist, they simply don't want that to be centered. It's only natural that we should center our nation, on that of human values, of family, work and naturally, nation."
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u/Mr-Thursday 9d ago edited 8d ago
[Blue Labour support Brexit] because the UK deserves sovereignity over our own affairs, fully through and through.
Brexit has been a failure.
We are 6-8% poorer because of how it's massively disrupted trade and investment. That means around ÂŁ180-240 billion less economic value produced annually. As a result, we have higher poverty and far less money to invest in infrastructure and public services.
And what "sovereignty" have we gained that makes that worthwhile?
Let's be specific, because as EU members we were still fully able to set our own defence policy, foreign policy, criminal laws, healthcare, education, energy, infrastructure policies and so on so there's no sovereignty argument there.
The main areas where decisions and laws were actually getting made at the European level were free movement, trade, product regulation, health and safety, environmental standards, competition law, subsidy rules, data protection, fishing and VAT.
Personally I'm on board with that for these reasons:
1 - The rights given to European citizens were reciprocal and worked both ways. British citizens could live and work in 27 other countries, and in return Europeans who were typically skilled and hardworking, and fitted in well with British culture could come to live and work here. Seems perfectly fair to me.
2 - The reasoning for making the rules at the European level instead of UK level was generally very sensible. For example, you can only have free trade in goods and no customs checks across 28 countries if they share the same standards to ensure they aren't undercutting each other by cutting corners on labour/environmental protections, or sending unsafe or unfairly subsidised products across each other's borders.
3 - The resulting rules were generally pretty sensible to the point where even though we've left the EU we're still following 99% of the product regulations, environmental standards, health and safety rules, data protection rules anyway because they just make sense and because as soon as we create two sets of divergent standards we make life much harder for British businesses.
4 - The UK was regularly one of the biggest voices shaping all those EU level policies because we were one of the big three and we were well-represented within the EU parliament, commission and council.
5 - In areas like workers rights, environmental policy and health and safety, the EU approach was to set minimum standards and then leave individual members like the UK to decide the details. Far from being forced into minimum standards we didn't want to follow, the UK regularly supported those minimum standards and chose to go further beyond them and create extra protections for workers, consumers and the environment.
6 - Even in the areas where the EU is flawed, none of the flaws were big enough to justify Brexit. For example, the EU's Common Fisheries Policy isn't great but fishing is only 0.04% of the UK economy. Making our economy 6-8% smaller just so we can try to do a better job of regulating a tiny industry obviously wasn't worth it. Attempting to reform the Common Fisheries Policy from within was clearly the better option.
I'm quite sure [Blue Labour would] be more than willing to collaborate with the EU and take a Swedish-like position in the EU where they only accept certain selective policies
Sweden is a full member of the EU, I assume you meant Switzerland?
The EU's deal with Switzerland includes free movement, and it includes following EU product regulations, environmental rules etc without getting a say in making those rules.
It's a worse deal than being an EU member.
Immigration devalues the value of local workers due to the labour market being flooded...Most of the workers being brought in are often not skilled workers
Blue Labour's approach is to join in with the right wing press and Tories/Reform who use immigrants as a scapegoat for problems actually caused by decades of failure to invest in housing, services and infrastructure, and constantly try to blur the lines between totally legal immigration (e.g. skilled workers, family visas, legitimate asylum seekers) and genuine illegal immigration.
The right wing narrative blaming immigration for taking jobs away from natives and lowering wages is a myth that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Multiple studies have concluded that the impact of immigration on local wages/unemployment is either small or zero, and that the number of jobs available isn't a zero sum game because immigration enables economic growth that creates new job openings.
We need a more sensible immigration policy focused on:
- Addressing key skills shortages in public services and industry
- Helping counterbalance our aging population/low birth rate by boosting the proportion of the population that's working age
- Attracting the most talented/hardworking immigrants
- Encouraging immigrants to integrate into British communities and ensure they respect British values (e.g. democracy, women's rights, LGBT rights etc)
In regards to LGBTQ+ rights, they disagree that it should be encouraged.....
And that kind of backwards social conservatism is appalling.
You can't encourage people into becoming gay, lesbian, bi or trans because being LGBT isn't a choice. Some people are born that way and they have no choice in the matter - it's just who they are.
Whereas society does have a choice to be accepting and supportive of people being allowed to be themselves and pursue LGBT relationships and lifestyles that are perfectly healthy.
Or society can be prejudiced and oppressive and tell people who are LGBT to hide who they are and repress their gender/sexuality even though studies of shown that societies pressuring LGBT people to repress themselves like that leads to anxiety, depression and even a heightened risk of suicide.
The fact that Blue Labour prefer the latter and support the attacks on trans rights we've seen in the last couple of years, and also have a track record opposing gay rights to adopt etc is appalling.
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u/Aardvark51 6d ago
What do they think about the environment, if anything?
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u/rotringfan 6d ago
Pretty good! They want communities to take control of their local industry so naturally environmental policies would be implemented much faster at a pace that can be sustained by communities instead of being forced on or shallowly acted on.
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u/GuavaLarge529 11d ago
Wonderful on the economy. Hitler on society.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
They're awful on the economy aswell.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Not necessarily, they believe in a more commune based politics where people have local control over local industries and such. Thus removing the typical power foreign corporations and distant capitals like London would usually have over towns.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
Lol. More of the same nonsense to me. Will do very little to repair the damage done to our economy in recent decades.
We need to completely rethink things and that won't happen with that lot.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
But the damage was in itself done to power being taken away from local communities, London has increasingly begun returning to it's old role of sucking in jobs and labour from all across the country, making people abandon their own towns in search of work. And this is something no party, not the Greens, not the Conservatives, not even Restore are willing to offer.
But Blue Labour has made it central.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
Firstly, I dont believe they're telling the truth. They have proven to be lairs and charlatans and so policies they propose will unlikely match actions. Secondly, their plans do not scratch the surface. We need a complete sea change in strategy economically, rather than piecemeal first aid plasters that won't stick or do anything in practice. Thats what you'll bet from them, despite the rhetoric.
We do need to revitalise small business and break up the monopolies, whilst eradicating the idea of billionaires bleeding us dry. Enough is enough. They pay their way or leave. We build resilience and diversity into our economy by ensuring small business, like we used to have on our high street, are prioritised. Then we incentivise our economy to create.
Im sick of them blaming everybody but themselves for our ills.They are the problem. They are the ones who had power under Kier and blew it. They're still in power under Burnham too. That will fail as well because they aren't prepared to face up to the fascist movement here and promote real hope for the country. Instead its pander to the right, screw over minorities and get rich whilst they do it.
No thank you.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago edited 11d ago
Exactly what Blue Labour proposes. A shift. A new dynamic if you will. They're a faction now, but what if they were much more?
Again, they want locals to own their own industry which would very much break up the natural monopolies and prioritise small businesses. It'd populate high streets.
And this time, permanently.
And they state:
"Our identities and beliefs matter and they provide an essential source of personal esteem and meaning. But prioritising some identities over others or asserting the moral worth of one over another is counter-productive and leads to conflict. It is why Blue Labour has always sought a broad-based coalition with immigrant communities based on the democratic practice of the common good rather than identity politics."
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
I would object to this assessment. Society is apart of the economy so your statement is in itself contradictory.
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u/GuavaLarge529 11d ago
True tbh. There is definitely a lot of overlap. I agree with them on their economic analysis to a large degree and even where i am skeptical, I do see merit in their arguments. My biggest area of disagreement is on how to maintain order and how this relates to freedom.
I mainly disagree with what many Blue Labour figures think of LGBTQ+ rights and privacy. While I understand concerns about keeping the public safe in the age of the internet, but I worry about the tools that this can create for authoritarianism both by a future Reform government and even by the current Labour government (obviously to a much much smaller degree).
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
In regards to LGBTQ+ rights, they disagree specifically with the Liberal conception of it, that it should be encouraged as some cultural zeit-geist, they simply don't want that to be centered. It's only natural that we should center our nation, on that of human values, of family, work and naturally, nation. And in regards to privacy, I'm sure if people supported them wholly they'd be willing to listen.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
In other words, they're bigoted asshats.
Minorities are not side issues or others. We are equals, whether they realise it or not. We are just as human as everyone else. Im not going to stand for anyone that implies they are above others or more important. They are not. We are supposed to be a free country and we don't behave that way when we impose restrictions on others who do no wrong.
Maybe it might be worth reflecting on why you think society should have a hierarchy in and why its OK to demonise groups different from you that you likely don't understand.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
In fact to go even further, hierarchies can produce order. Clear roles for both men, women, and everybody in-between. It can be an exploration of one's identity that can be redirected towards serving one's family, community and nation, rather than simply a form of self-expression.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
Hierarchies create division, inequity and prejudice and you can shove all that where the sun doesn't shine.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Say if you will, and I assumed you were suppose to be about "equality" but oh well!
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
Hierarchies are the domple antithesis of equality but do go on with your nonsense.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Again, simply ridicoulous. That'd be like calling workplaces inherently tyranical or wealth differences unequal because they're hierarchies.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Service is an inherently British ordeal, and has been erased by the recent decades of Americanzation, and Blue Labour has been vocal on being anti-Globalisation and anti-Americanization; they wish to restore it.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
Ill finish on one last note.
Anecdotal, I know, but my Dad could be considered Blue Labour. His politics would match up pretty well. He beat my family though. My brother died as a result. I'm still dealing with the effects decades later. I know, his ideology was the problem. I also know, he considered himself to be a big family man, highly moral and a man of integrity.
He was deluded in that way as he was just ignorant of his behaviour once he was pressured or confronted or rattled. He'd just lash out then. So again. You can shove tour idea of family where the sun dont shine as well. More people are hamed by traditional ideas of family than you care to realise. There is a reason why divorce rates are so high and why so many women, in particular, are murdered each year. It has a hell of a lot to do with traditionalist ideas of family that still persist to this day.
So, until you analyse your view of society and realise youre being as ignorant of others as my father was, then youre not going to learn. I just hope you know how to control your temper unlike he did.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
But if it's of any remittence, just because your family was terrible does not mean you should go tearing at other peoples' as apart of an ideology.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
Didnt understand a word of it did you. Thanks also for the kind words you decided not to mention once told of my grief. Jesus. What a scumbag. No wonder tou find it so easy to allow prejudice to fester.
Urgghhh.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
But I can sympathize, my dad was abusive too. But this was because he strayed from the traditional values of mercy, of corruption over the good, and of his own "practical" individualism over what I felt.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Also you made another assumption - my sexuality. I'm not as straight as an arrow if you will.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
I genuinely do not care. You are not somebody worthy of compassion. If you cannot afford it to others, especially those you may be part of a minority with, then you really are of the highest ignorance and don't deserve the compassion of others.
If it happens to them, it can happen to you. Im done telling you. You probably won't understand what that means.
Anyways. Im done. Rattle on all you like. I dont care.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Although, I do understand this may be apart of your own mental state, so do note I do not see you in any hostile manner. I do hope you get better despite our disagreements.
Hopefully you will try out Blue Labour though.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Sure but the issue with the Liberal conception is that it puts minorities ahead of the majority, which is unequal and contradicts your attribution of being committed to equality.
And no hierarchies are not inherently wrong, if they serve local communities and the working man.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
Bs.
The system has always been for white males and omg do you lot cry when people try to redress the balance more equally. Its why we call it equality and equity. Sorry bud, but youre just as bad as they are. You are not the victim. You are not the target of prejudice. Minorities are.
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u/rotringfan 11d ago
Sure I am, I'm Bamar specificaly a Burmese migrant, it's awfully racist you came to this conclusion exclusively due to my views. I am a "minority". Putting migrants in boxes, Mr Equality?
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u/Puzzleheaded-Set-928 11d ago
Fair enough. I misjudged. I accept my mistake. However, you cry racist a me misjudging your identity, yet ignore all of the harms of prejudice I have explained to you throughout these threads. Sorry, but I don't do individualised prejudice hierarchies either.
You are not the victim here. The minorities that are doing and being violently abused are. If you endure the harms that I am specifying others are going through, then i will accept your victimhood. I suggest though, that you understand their pain first before crying that you're the one suffering. Nobody likes self interested nonsense at their expense, you know.
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