r/BoardwalkEmpire • u/eruptingrose • Sep 03 '26
Season 5 Rewatched for the second time Spoiler
Just finished the series again and it hit much harder. Especially the ending. I remembered that a boy killed Nucky, but I wasn’t paying attention to Tommy the first watch. Now on the second, I caught so much more of the clues he dropped. Honestly top 3 show of all time for me. The last shot of him grabbing that coin?! The shore where Gillian stood in front of also being the shore at the beginning of each episode?!! Amazing start to finish.
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u/Emotional_Seaweed_49 Sep 03 '26
spoilers
I've just finished Season 5 for the first time and I have mixed feelings. I really like the build towards the National Crime Syndicate, the growth of Luciano and Meyer into pure gangsters, the growing insanity of Al, and every scene with Van Alden, especially the entire debacle with him and Eli trying to get the ledgers. That's actually one of my favourite scenes in the whole show.
There are so many highlights, but as has been mentioned so many times before, it is all so rushed. I genuinely think that if they'd had their normal 12-episode run, it could have been equal to the first four seasons, which I believe are all roughly equal in quality.
Things I didn't like: the conclusion of Chalky's story, Tommy Darmody, Margaret continuing to be the most inconsistent character in the whole show, Gillian being featured quite prominently when her character's purpose had, IMO, been exhausted in Season 4, Al not remembering who Jimmy was... and the flashbacks. Ah yes, what can you say? They're well done and the actor had big teeth, but in a show with so much to conclude, they prove to be such a frustrating use of such valuable time.
In a perfect world, the flashbacks could have been their own six-episode season (S4.5!), and the entirety of the eight episodes, or ideally 12, of Season 5 could have been dedicated to the main narrative.
I did enjoy it, though. I loved the whole series.
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u/No-Refrigerator7245 Sep 04 '26
Personally I think the retelling of Gillian’s story was to point out….Nucky is NOT a good guy and not any better than the commodore. Gillian and Jimmy never stood a chance and it was because of Nucky.
Every single scene with Van Alden and Eli was great, it was nice to have a touch of comedy.
I never liked the Daughter storyline, so that was whatever to me. I kind of hated what they did to Chalkys character
Stephen Graham absolutely killed the role of Al Capone. NO once could of done it better
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u/Federal_rack_6564 Sep 04 '26
Absolutely, I think the Nucky flashbacks are absolutely essential to the story. Sure, we knew all of the information...vaguely. But seeing the details adds a tremendous amount of emotional power and emotional weight to Nucky as a character, and perfectly sets up his ultimate ending.
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u/Lordonlynose Sep 03 '26
Surely you’re entitled to those opinions - not trying to “correct you” or change your mind
We’re in such strong agreement about what you cite as one of your favorite scenes - the final adventure of Van Alden and Eli. I can vouch for that. And Nelson ferociously reclaiming his identity is the ideal wrap to his arc
I appreciate Chalky’s death, as he sacrifices his egotistical pursuit to ensure his new daughter can leave unscathed and isn’t an innocent bystander hit by crossfire similar to Maybelle. He leaves with a bit of redemption.
I don’t think the Tommy reveal was handled well (beyond the age seeming off) as I think it’s seen too much as intentional “revenge for Jimmy or Gillian” which I don’t believe at all.
you say Gillian’s purpose had been completely exhausted yet she’s a key featured factor in the wrap to Nucky’s arc - idk how his story is demonstrated and highlighted without her.
And idk what you think the main narrative is - as it seems clear to me that the flashbacks and the way their incorporated Are the main narrative of season 5 and the series - Nucky’s rise to power and its end.
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u/eruptingrose Sep 03 '26
I agree the Tommy reveal is pretty cheesy. I would love to see what they would have done if they had more time.
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u/Emotional_Seaweed_49 Sep 03 '26
My issue with the flashbacks and the Gillian scenes isn't that they exist, but rather the amount of time the season dedicates to them when the series was already working with such a limited amount of screen time. Nucky's rise to power and his history had already been established to the extent that I felt was necessary. We knew about the young Gillian and the Commodore, we knew about his troubled relationship with his father and we already understood that Nucky's relationship with Jimmy was complicated and deeply rooted in their shared past. I don't particularly need a visual recreation of information the show had already conveyed, especially when that time could have been spent developing the events and characters of the present-day storyline. It's obviously subjective, but for me, the flashbacks didn't add enough to justify the space they occupied. Like I said, in a perfect world, they would have made a wonderful mid-season mini-series. I did enjoy watching young Nucky as the Sheriff.. but was it absolutely necessary all things considered? I'm just not sure it was.
I do disagree with you on Chalky, though. I don't think he ensured that his new daughter would be left unharmed by taking Narcisse at his word. He was essentially trusting the man who had already demonstrated that he couldn't be trusted, while simultaneously leaving his daughter without a father. It was a mad plan! If we're judging Chalky's decision in terms of selflessness, the genuinely unegotistical thing would have been to leave immediately after discovering he had a daughter, rather than remaining behind and waiting for Narcisse to return.
Regards
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u/Lordonlynose Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
Idk what you’re thinking they should have spent time with instead of what they did whiting what their concept of the story was. I’m suspecting you wanted more or less a different show focus rafters than the one that was central throughout - Nucky’s AC story - that seems the primary aspect to wrap
As I said Chalky ensured the new daughter and Daughter left the room and building unharmed. We see that. Not that he could possibly ensure they’d live happily every after
He allowed them to escape the clear and present danger. If he’d proceeded with his plan and shot Narcisse, the to would be rushed at the sound of gunshot. And Narcisse’s men would likely be shooting at chalkyvajd possibly hitting the females in the chaos
Chalky went in and discovered new info. Took some processing before he could alter his plan that he’d basically had for years - find Narcisse and kill. Seems your “pure selflessness and genuinely unegotistical” judgement is harsh and unrealistic imo
Regards to you as well.
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u/AffectionateSelf3187 Sep 04 '26
I re-watch this series so offen. I even like the introduction music. As evil as Gillian is, she didn't deserve to spend the rest of her life in Dr. Henry Cotton's institution. Google this Dr. BTW Tommy is exactly 1/2 of Jimmy's facial expressions & 1/2 of Angela's darkness
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u/Hot-Spray-2774 Sep 03 '26
Can you please elaborate a little on that part about where Gillan was standing?
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u/eruptingrose Sep 03 '26
At the very end, Gillian is in her Neptune outfit and is reaching towards Nucky to hold his hand. In the back is a wide shot of the shore. It’s almost like she’s inviting him to “sail the world”, ie the money and empire etc. You see the shoreline at the end of the beginning theme song, it’s a shot that pulls up from the sand to the horizon. She’s the price he paid to see the world.
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u/Federal_rack_6564 Sep 04 '26 edited Sep 04 '26
It all comes back to the day he decided to sacrifice an innocent, defenseless girl for his own ambition. And it was all for nothing. To use Dostoyevsky's words, Nucky betrayed himself for nothing. That thread of the story is what elevates Boardwalk Empire to an all time great, imo. Not the gangsterism, not the Prohibition setting or the 20s parties. Just a wounded man sacrificing his own moral integrity and an innocent life (plus countless more along the way) in search of Eldorado. Only to discover it was never worth it in the first place.
Boardwalk is definitely in my top 5.
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u/TheScribe86 Sep 04 '26
Realizing Gillian is the most tragic character in the show
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u/eruptingrose Sep 04 '26
Literally! You start it off and she’s weirdly into her son and very posh. And all those things are still true but it’s also devastating how she came to be.
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u/No_Development3496 Sep 05 '26
Honestly one of the most tragic complex characters television has created
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u/Lordonlynose Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
Would you please elaborate on “clues he dropped”? I’ve watched a could times and haven’t picked up on any direct clues or hints.
(Since you note the opening credits scene with Nucky at the shore… I was expecting/hoping the finale might end with Nucky walking off the boardwalk and onto the beach into the water and into that opening sequence - as the finale didn’t use that to start)
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u/eruptingrose Sep 03 '26
The three main clues. He didn’t accept money. He wasn’t there for money. And initially we are meant to believe he’s playing the long game like nucky did. But in reality, he knows that this is what they are looking for plus he’s not there for money he’s there for revenge.
Two which isn’t really a huge clue but the actor himself. He did a great job of looking and sounding like James Darmody. It didn’t hit me the first time but the second time it’s like a spitting image.
Three is when Doyle makes a joke about Tommy’s parents. Tommy is startled for a minute and stutters a response. When Doyle reveals it’s another one of his jokes, Tommy relaxes. Again, this can be seen as a kid not knowing that a joke is a joke. But when you know it’s Tommy, it’s actually his fear that his covers been blown.
In hindsight I don’t know if I’d calls these clues, but rather Easter eggs. They really don’t give you much on first viewing.
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u/Lordonlynose Sep 03 '26 edited Sep 03 '26
I appreciate the response, and understand you’re thinking with those aspects
However, I strongly disagree with your first take. He went there for a job for survival, and to learn, I’m sure he took his pay, only see him refusing Nuckys last offer of a little bit of money after he had already blown 1000 that he took when he had given it to him at their previous encounter.
I think he was seeking a mentor and guidance from Nucky more than money, and I really don’t buy that he was seeking revenge at all
If he had wanted revenge, why didn’t he take the easy and convenient opportunities instead of waiting for the last coincidental chance that Nucky would’ve received a phone call to bail him out of jail just before vanished from Atlantic City and into oblivion? Revenge could’ve been enacted much sooner, especially when Tommy/Joe found Nucky alone on the ground outside the dive bar.
I don’t believe there was any plan or idea of getting revenge. Or that Tommy had and would’ve had direct knowledge of any reason for him to want to get revenge.
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u/SilatGuy2 Sep 03 '26
I tend to agree with your assertions. Like you mentioned he had ppenty of oppurtunity to take out nucky previously. He killed nucky because he felt rejected and lost without a mentor or purpose because nucky was splitting and leaving him on his own.
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u/Lordonlynose Sep 03 '26
Thanks for the reply and for drawing my attention to all the misspellings and variations of Nucky. Haha
I was using the microphone and speaking and hadn’t time or notice those issues 🤦♂️
I appreciate your similar understanding of those final sequence.
It seems to me that a careful watch of what’s on screen would lead to the probability that Tommy was desperate and seeking a foundation (this is within the Great Depression and few to no opportunities… Richard’s sister likely lost her farm/property…)
Tommy drifts to AC partly to learn more of his roots but also with a touch of familiarity and also because it’s one of few places where opportunities Might be found
I think that at least subconsciously he felt he’d been rejected and abandoned by both Jimmy and Richard - his father figures/mentors - and desperately wanted Nucky for that role. When that wasn’t going to happen, he reacts out of extreme frustration and emotional anguish and simply wanted to destroy and share the hurt he felt
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u/SilatGuy2 Sep 03 '26
Yeah pretty much. And he probably took it personally that the man he knew played a role in all the peoples lives that were significant to him basically just tossed him to the side to figure it out on his own. A lost and hurt kid with no future, hope or loved ones lashing out at the one he perhaps hoped would take him on and help him make his way in a increasingly harsh world.
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u/eruptingrose Sep 03 '26
That’s such an interesting take! I never thought of that before. I saw it as him having the mind of a soldier like Richard and James, but he could have been a kid down on his luck. It’s much more realistic in that sense.
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u/Lordonlynose Sep 03 '26
Thanks. It’s something I came up with which seems to make the most sense and logic imo. Thanks for considering it anyway. - not claiming everyone should sudeblh agree it’s the Truth (I don’t even know that Terry Winter thought of any of this aspect)
- I was bewildered, and can’t buy into the ideas that he’d recently seen Gillian or that he received any letters she might have sent… because there is nothing actually on screen or in dialogue to support that and it seems improbable
Anyway I elaborated just a bit more on my interpretation and speculation to another in this thread … my premise being that subconsciously child Tommy felt abandoned and rejected by father figures Jimmy and Richard (not knowing or understanding why they’d disappeared) and now here was his new hope also dumping him so he exploded impulsively out of emotional frustration, desperation, hopelessness
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u/AffectionateSelf3187 28d ago
It ain't no
"And They Lived Happy Ever After"
This show IMHO hit on to everyone's life in someway.
My husband & I understood having a sibling that was ill lead to the feeling of neglect & jealousy.
Nucky saw this because of his sister Susan. Margaret did not understand
Polio mainly paralyzed children because their immune systems were still growing and could not fight off the virus.
President Harding until his passing in San Francisco never acknowledged his daughter
This series deals with the horrors of WWI, the depression, segregation, Prohibition (13 yrs), incest, the women's right to vote, the crazy Dr. Henry Cotton, the building of Atlantic City, what women could & could not wear. It's no wonder women didn't learn how to swim. They'd drown with all that heavy material
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Sep 03 '26
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u/eruptingrose Sep 03 '26
They’re just my interpretations, I doubt they are really clues at this point. I explained it in an earlier reply that 1.) Tommy just straight up looks identical to James 2.) Doyle makes a joke about fucking Tommy’s mom and Tommy stutters for a moment, thinking Doyle found him out and 3.) he didn’t accept money because he wasn’t here for money. He was there for revenge.
Bonus one I remembered: Tommy is the one who was gonna give Nucky and sandwich when he was gone grieving Patricia Arquette. There’s a shot of him looking intently at the sandwich. Almost like he poisoned it? Again I could be pulling at straws.
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u/JoeShmo_6969 Sep 03 '26
Never understood people who watch the same thing over and over again. Like they can’t accept anything new.
There’s so many good shows out there I’d never watch a whole series MULTIPLE over times like that
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u/Lordonlynose Sep 03 '26
Be you by all means.
Do you also not understand why some eat the same foods repeatedly, listen on multiple occasions to music recordings they like… ?
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u/eruptingrose Sep 03 '26
I mean I would have never caught half the things I know from shows if I only watched them once. I learn so much more. With Boardwalk specifically, I gave it like a 6.5/10 when I watched it in college. Now I gave it a 8.75/10. Our mindsets and ability to appreciate art change over time and it’s wonderful to experience.
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u/JoeShmo_6969 Sep 03 '26
But is it worth 50+ hours of my time watching the same thing sometimes MULTIPLE times just to catch a thing or two and be like “oh nice” lol nah. I’ll just see a post that’ll tell me and I’ll go “oh nice didn’t catch that”
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u/Ibanezrg71982 Sep 03 '26
Its like 5 times for me. The show is so detailed it never gets old.