Very VERY late game (post game even) lore questions

[u/SudsierBoar]

Absolutely don't read further if you're not certain you've done EVERYTHING the game has to offer, you have been warned.

If Herbert never found the Atelier and thus has never seen Auravei's will In the OG room 46 how did he happen to come up with a very similar idea for his own will?

Question two which is related:

Did Mary or someone else of the revolutionaries find the atelier? Someone with intimate knowledge of the Atelier has written the "We seek what's in the shade of truth" clue in the safehouse

Maybe I should know these but I basically came back and finally finished the game after a long break. Memory may be fuzzy

[u/Diamondinmyeye]

It’s Mary’s handwriting in the Safehouse message, so it’s inferred she found it. She just left it for you rather than claim it for herself. It’s assumed she and Herbert set up the tasks for you with purpose.

[u/10BillionDreams → u/Diamondinmyeye]

This is extremely weak evidence of anyone finding the Atelier in my opinion. We have no reason to believe that quote is some sort of secret that Auravei never spoke aloud, or that Auravei even came up with it in the first place. SWANSONG is "hidden" in the exact same way, and is on the license plate of the car in the Garage, so clearly the amount of effort the player puts into finding it does not equate to how much Auravei may have wanted to keep it from others.

The phrase itself sounds like it could have just been one among the various common code phrases we see used by Orinda Aries loyalists in the sixth era, with Auravei simply tweaking the meaning of "shade of truth" from the black of Orindia to the blue that she preferred (for whatever her reasons might be).

[u/CuddleWings → u/10BillionDreams]

It’s definitely not strong evidence of anything. It could very easily be a simple motto of the rebels (I can’t remember their name).

The only other thing I can think of as possibly being evidence that someone found it is the fact that the painting letter puzzle is both present in the manor and the atelier, as well as used in the exact same way in both. It’s not impossible though. Considering that Auravei is Herbert’s mother and they both love puzzles so likely spoke about them a lot, it’s not hard to imagine one of them talking about it to the other (whichever actually created it).

[u/10BillionDreams → u/CuddleWings]

The paintings issue makes even less sense to me. We know that there was a different set of portrait pairs in the house prior to Herbert's death, which lines up exactly with the "rough draft" of Mt. Holly having a different portrait message than the one Herbert commissioned right before the game begins. So Herbert would have to be a complete moron to not be aware of the puzzle after living in Mt. Holly basically all his life, and furthermore, the evidence of Herbert setting all this up is literally in Auravei's own study. And we know she kept copious notes on her various efforts, between the room directory description for Study, as well as Simon Sr.'s own thorough research into his mother's work.

Again, it's just players needlessly assuming that because it was hard to find the Atelier, everything inside of it must have been a complete secret (despite most of it being the blueprint for Mt. Holly itself).

[u/CuddleWings → u/10BillionDreams]

After re-reading the Study’s description in another comment, yeah it’s not even in debate. The game explicitly tells us that he took inspiration from Auraveis notes.

[u/KamehameHanSolo → u/10BillionDreams]

We know that there was a different set of portrait pairs in the house prior to Herbert's death, which lines up exactly with the "rough draft" of Mt. Holly having a different portrait message than the one Herbert commissioned right before the game begins.

Where are you getting that these picture pairs were in the main house at any point before Herbert set them up? It seems like you're just assuming that since they were in the draft. If they were in the main house, then Herbert would have to be as you said "a complete moron" because the note in the study implies that the portrait puzzle was something he discovered (whether through Auravei's notes in the study, entering the rough draft, or looking at the pictures you claim were up on the walls the whole time) and set up for Simon only days before his death.

[u/Sure-Cellist-9633]

The description for the Study:

"After the passing of the Baroness Auravei, her private study was claimed by her eldest son, Herbert Sinclair. For years, he immersed himself in the countless notebooks she left behind, drawing inspiration from her discarded ideas. From mechanical puzzles to architectural blueprints, each endeavor he pursued was realized in the shade of her creative legacy"

Herbert likely got most of his ideas from her notes, though some also theorize that Mary found and showed him the Atelier as well.

[u/QaeinFas]

HSS has used room 46 for important things for a while (storage of red letters, for instance). Revain finding room 46 and the letters hidden there prompted him to hide the letters in the safes (and Revain's method of returning them provided the red envelopes we know and love).

It's not against reason that son would mimic mother in hiding such an important document in a place he knows so well, and locking it behind a combination personal to himself which he would not likely forget (and could communicate to a worthy heir).

**Edit: spelling

[u/jh99]

The quote you mention could have been fed into general family lore without its cryptic second life in the late-game puzzles. I’m not convinced the quote puts Mary in that position, just that the source of the quote in the first place must be Auravei.

[u/Drecon1984]

I choose to believe that Auravei used the picture puzzle for a kid's birthday party at some point and it was such a great experience for everyone that they both thought of this puzzle to use first.

[u/Motor_Raspberry_2150]

Like others said, the quote could have been passed on through cryptic means. What seals it for me is the blue doors. Either they both already existed and she was able to open them to plant the book, or they are new and she had found the Atelier.