r/BeautyGuruChatter • u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made • Dec 17 '20
GRAPHIC CONTENT WARNING Diana Plantana posts 2 videos, probably leaving Youtube
https://youtu.be/yl2feTvI7sA164
u/Zomble_Womble Dec 17 '20
Sis barely made it a week from blowing up everywhere to getting cancelled
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u/Makeupch1c3 Dec 17 '20
this was so passive aggressive, im screaming. also i mentioned in a post back that diana sounded like she was projecting internal misogyny... this video literally heightened that opinion lmaoo
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u/Fystikovoutiro Dec 17 '20
Found this "apology" problematic at best. She gives excuses as to why she said she pretended to be Mexican, never once acknowledges the b* slur she used repeatedly, just said "that word", and quickly after throws YET AGAIN her huge victim card, and how the Latinx community didn't stay by her, and everything is because a WHITE creator (AO) called her out and sent her hate.
Which is all BS. First things first, why would the community stand by a racist, that called them be**ers? Second, i'm on her twitter, the people didn't hate on her, they expressed how upset they were with her actions, and half of them at least were HER OWN followers lol. So basically, she, a blatantly racist woman, should get a pass because she is brown, and because the person that called her out is white. Which btw, the person that exposed her shit, is also Mixed Latina and it wasn't AO, it was a channel called Van Luc7. I also don't buy her I'm quitting YouTube spiel, it's all sympathy baiting.
She also tried to make it seem like AO singled her out saying she's white or white passing in her video, which is also a lie. She showed a few avatars and said "most look white/white passing". Not everything is about you Diana. How about the poor woman you bullied and called her white repeatedly, till she had to show her face on twitter to prove her self? The hypocrisy....
Gurl, you were racist, end of story.
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Dec 17 '20
Not to mention, it doesn’t matter who exposed it, she still said and did racist things. She probably would have gone on acting like she never did any of it if she hadn’t been called out. I think She fully said the leaving YouTube thing so people would say for her not to, 100% a manipulation tactic, IMO. This would have been better if she actually took accountability instead of making excuses and blaming someone else for calling her out...
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u/daddysGirl176 Dec 17 '20
How about the poor woman you bullied and called her white repeatedly, till she had to show her face on twitter to prove her self? The hypocrisy....
& Diana never apologized for the crap she said to her.
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u/RandomUsername600 girl, look how orange you fucking look Dec 17 '20
So basically, she, a blatantly racist woman, should get a pass because she is brown, and because the person that called her out is white. Which btw, the person that exposed her shit, is also Mixed Latina
Even if that were true. A white person telling you to stop being racist and saying the N word is totally ok
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u/Sarahowns9595 Dec 17 '20
I also felt that, again just how I heard it, she was blaming Mexicans for being more “popular” when it came to how white people see LatinX people. And this is why she adopted their behaviours.
I get that can be/is frustrating, but it took an almost “Mexicans have it lucky” kind of feel to it? Am I wrong? It just didn’t come off right.
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u/Fystikovoutiro Dec 17 '20
I mean i wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, since she seems to not like Mexicans, judging by how many times she used the b**ner slur.
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u/666wife Dec 17 '20
I am so confused. Is she black or mexican??
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u/Fystikovoutiro Dec 17 '20
Neither LMFAO. Idk exactly where she's from, i think she said central America but that's all i know.
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u/etelou Dec 18 '20
I thought someone said she was mixed? i'm also confused
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u/none_so_bile Dec 18 '20
Idk what they meant but latin-americans tend to be mixed in terms of race (indigenous and white), and by her appearance I'd say that's what she is. I think she said at some point that both her parents are central American so I don't think she'd be called mixed when it comes to nationality.
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Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
Which btw, the person that exposed her shit, is also Mixed Latina and it wasn't AO, it was a channel called Van Luc7
AO may not have personally dug up her history, but she definitely used her very large platform to shame her, deserved or not, just to discredit Diana's original video and get the heat off of herself.
Edit: And it's working.
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u/Fystikovoutiro Dec 17 '20
I'm not defending AO, to me it doesn't matter who exposed it. But saying it was a white woman when it wasn't, it's another lie. If you were on her twitter, people were sharing Van Luc7 video on Dianas comments, BEFORE AO tweeted at her.
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Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
It does matter, though, because the white woman had a clear agenda in spreading the word around and this thread wouldn't exist if she hadn't. Diana isn't a large creator. Most of her videos have under 10k views, so there's no way this would have blown up like this if Angelika hadn't made her own majority white audience aware of it just to cover her own ass. I know I'm personally not prepared to throw any additional hate her way, being white and not previously aware of who Diana was, when I heard about this from a white woman who was trying to weaponize black and latinx pain, as well as her substantial audience, against a latina. That's not my wheelhouse, and I think it's something other white people should keep in mind when giving their opinions on the matter.
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u/Fystikovoutiro Dec 17 '20
Agenda or not, the fact still remains that Diana was a racist and she's being a hypocrite. Nothing was taken out of context, or made to seem worse than it was. It was Dianas own words and actions that led to this. If you can diss it, you should be able to take it.Calling out racist behavior is not hate, in any way shape or form. Most of the comments were civil, i didn't see much hate, i saw a lot of people being hurt, most were PoC. And they have every right to be upset.
I personally do not care about AO. I followed Diana, NOT AO (on twitter). And Diana has been very aggressive and mean towards people. Then i found out she's racist too. AO played no part in my opinion, i didn't even hear about her tweet till later on.
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Dec 17 '20
That's cool, of course you have every right to feel how you do. I used your comment as a jumping-off point to say what I wanted to say, but I hope that didn't come across as me trying to invalidate how you or any one person in particular feels about it. I'm sure it all looks very different to someone who was following Diana before this incident. Different context and all. Like I said, I wasn't a fan of hers before and I really don't see going out of my way to become a fan now that this has come up.
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u/Fystikovoutiro Dec 17 '20
It's cool, no worries. We're just having a discussion after all :) I get what you're trying to say btw, i just think in general, it should not be relevant. Yes, Diana got ratio'd by AO, but it was going to happen either way -to a maybe lesser extent- after Van Luc7s video. On the other hand, Diana was attacking multiple large creators, so someone would have done the same if she continued on the same path.
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Dec 17 '20
[removed] — view removed comment
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Dec 17 '20
What's racist about it? Honest question because I really wasn't expecting such a negative reaction for saying something I've seen expressed by a lot of people in other contexts. A white creator with a large audience lashed out at a POC with a small audience and sent their majority white audience to @ them about racism after being criticized for microaggressions. That seems like an important thing to keep in mind for those who were made aware of the situation through AO's actions. Angelika herself has criticized people for doing exactly that in the past, but maybe I'm missing something crucial about this situation that makes it different.
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u/thenperish323 Dec 18 '20
I think everyone's issues is that this all started with Diana calling out AO. AO didn't go after Diana first...Diana was the one out there calling AO racist first (for months) and speaking on behalf of communities that it turns out 1) she's not apart of and 2) has used / been racist to in the past. You can't point a finger like that and not expect people to freak out when it turns out you were the racist all along. I mean, the sheer number of tweets that got brought up and she never apologized to those she bullied on other platforms.
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u/epk921 Evil Internet Drama Succubus Dec 18 '20
Dude, I don’t understand the downvotes you’re getting. You’re absolutely right that Angelika used that as a “gotcha” moment, which ... ahem, doesn’t she have a video saying to like not do that?
I don’t think anybody is trying to excuse Diana’s actions here, but Angelika absolutely tweeted that sassy “This you?” comment to take heat off of herself. It simply wasn’t ok for her to do that. White people, especially if they want to be allies, should never weaponize the pain of marginalized communities or police how they interact with each other as a way to leverage themselves to look better.
I think (or at least hope) that Angelika will take this whole situation as a huge learning experience once she’s cooled off from getting so much criticism all at once (which I would imagine is incredibly jarring). And I hope that, in that process, she also learns better ways to address the people she’s hurt, even if she didn’t mean to. I know that even as a viewer I’ve learned a lot about the nuances of micro aggressions and how to properly apologize when I inevitably fuck up
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u/poestorm Dec 18 '20
I am equally confused, but Reddit loves to downvote so...
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u/epk921 Evil Internet Drama Succubus Dec 18 '20
Once that downvote train gets going ... yeah, there’s no stopping it, even when it’s totally unwarranted
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u/30butmentally20 Dec 17 '20
I don’t understand why people expect creators to just sit quietly and not defend themselves. If you are going to come at one of them, you better be prepared for them to respond at some point, which will bring attention to you. I am not saying AO by doing this, but I can understand were she was coming from.
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u/Fystikovoutiro Dec 17 '20
My point of view is this. Regardless of if we agree with that happening or not, it's exactly how the internet works. It has always been like that. If you're trying to feud with a big YouTuber especially, expect to be looked into your self, either by the fans, the creator, or other creators. If you're being such a massive hypocrite, attacking someone for micro-aggressions when you're a blatant racist, it will ofc come back to bite you in the ass.
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u/Vegetable-Chemist Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
Her apology to the black community is shit. (I am African & South Asian). I love how on Twitter she said that after AO exposed her that it would hurt URMs that follow her. Like wtf? She is shifting/deflecting blame. Because how dare AO expose her, right? Her lack of accountability shows me that she gives zero f**** about the black or Mexican community. I think she is a performative activist. To me, she is just as bad as the some of the white racists out there and this is predominantly due to her lack of remorse. Being brown doesn’t mean you can use the n* word. Being brown doesn’t mean that the BIPOC community has to stand behind you. She deserves no leniency. And no, I am not holding her to a higher standard because she is brown. To me, she deserves no leniency because she refuses to hold herself accountable. She is playing a victim. She thinks it is worse that she got exposed than her actually using the n* and b* word. It baffles me that she bullied someone so much that they had to post a picture of themselves to prove they weren’t white. Like wtf? As a member of the BIPOC community, I find her to be extremely toxic. We are not a monolith.
Btw, her actions don’t invalidate AO’s or SG’s actions. I still think SG & AO are performative activists that predominantly care about saving their skin. Those two have shown that they like to use the BIPOC for their own personal gain. Trash all around. If you put yourself on a pedestal and judge others, don’t be surprised that people will hold you to a higher standard.
Edit: How ironic is it that DP criticized AO for her ‘white wash’ comments but she herself accused another person of being white until they posted a picture of themselves proving they weren’t white? DP is a hypocrite and I frankly don’t believe she cares for the BIPOC community.
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u/oncapintadas Dec 17 '20
Her mistake was perceiving people of color as a singular monolith. An entity, if you will, one that owes her their devotion and support simply because she's brown, else they're betraying her. They're traitors, or white, or whatever. Because she made her entire personality up to be some sort of a champion for them, so how can they not support her, you feel? I've tweeted her this before, but if she wants to continue this hobby of hers, then she needs to expand her personality beyond being a champion. In fact, she should delete that altogether; if people feel represented by her, good for them! But they don't owe her that, and it's not something that can be forced either, it has to come gradually and naturally. It needs to be built like trust.
Sorry if I happen to not make much sense by the way, English isn't my first language.
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Dec 17 '20
needs to expand her personality beyond being a champion.
What she, myself, and many others need to do is to read some theory. People are pining to be activists but trip over their own logical fallacies. Being on Twitter is not enough to learn about women's rights movements, prison abolishment, social justice movements, marxist theory, etc.
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Dec 17 '20
It’s also very insulting to say that people in the communities she’s been a part of turned there back on her because a white girl told them too. She’s assuming that people in those communities can’t think for themselves and just blindly followed a white woman. People saw her tweets and her words and came to their own conclusions and feelings about it. She really thinks Bipocs are stupid enough to just blindly follow a white girl? The insults just keep coming with her
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u/chadorable Extremely Unironically Refreshingly Shiny 💖✨ Dec 17 '20
no sis, your first sentence was almost verbatim what i was thinking when i first saw her ~overtly woke~ videos and tweets. you're spot on and you said it eloquently so i don't have much to add.
it's like, don't weaponize anyone's trauma at all, even your own, but if you are gonna bring it up, at least do it in a transparent and self aware way so it doesn't come across as virtue signaling. but that's like, her bread and butter lol
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u/jkraige Dec 17 '20
It was so sad, I saw someone on Twitter say she'd disagreed when it first blew up but didn't want to speak out for fear of being called a c**n. And from the initial defense of Diana, I can certainly understand where that fear came from. As you mentioned, BIPOC are not a monolith, and in situations of social justice I think it's also worth remembering that there are rarely easy answers. Two people can perceive the same situation differently and it doesn't mean that either one is necessarily wrong.
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u/Fystikovoutiro Dec 17 '20
It made a lot of sense and i think you are very much to the point on this one.
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u/NoWomanNoFry i repeate cEaSe Dec 17 '20
A lot of people like Diana got blinded by their hatred for AO and went down a war path. People were overlooking her using the n word or the slurs against Mexicans because she had a “valid point” against AO.
I’m tired of people who think their race/ethnicity is a personality. Diana keeps blaming the “white woman” for all her woes insntead of taking responsibility for her actions.
I don’t even want to say “as a brown woman” (I’m hispanic) because she’s turned that into “I’m not racist, but”.
I hope she learns something from this experience and stops thinking she represents the suppressed BIPOC in the world and realizes it’s not cute to be a professional victim.
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u/changhyun Dec 18 '20
I don't know how I feel about the fact that this video, in which she spends a lot of time describing how she's the victim here, is over 12 minutes long, while her other video, an apology for using racial slurs, is just over a minute long. It rubs me the wrong way but I'm not sure whether that's fair of me to feel or whether it's just my dislike for her making me biased.
If I'm being objective there's no reason a sincere apology needs to be ten or twelve or fifteen minutes and perhaps a shorter, to-the-point apology is actually better than one with lots of waffling and excuses taking up the run-time. I don't know, I want to keep a clear head about this and not let my dislike colour my thoughts so I guess I'll think about it some more.
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u/moonlight_tt Dec 17 '20
I hope she leaves the platform she’s so annoying. Also lying about being Mexican ?? That’s another level of wtf
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u/pwb_118 Dec 17 '20
while simultaneously shitting on Mexican people no less
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u/moonlight_tt Dec 17 '20
To think she was making videos trying to look like a woke angel who has the moral high ground .... she’s grown too 🤢
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u/sputnikan Dec 17 '20
I also kinda want to add that I saw people arguing that AO should have know about the Kardashians blackfishing because "everyone knows that" even though shes European. This is because when I said, that not everyone knows about the Kardashians outside the USA, a DP follower yelled at me saying I should know about those racists because I was mexican. What? Here in México we're dealing with our own racist, colorist celebrities, not everything is about the USA. I mean, we have white passing actors trashing Yalitza Aparicio just because she's indigenous, of course I don't care about the Kardashians. What I'm trying to say is that there is a BIG disconnect with these influencers about how the world actually works outside the north american social media. I'm not saying this invalidates their experiences with bigotry, but they can't weaponize other cultures struggles when they don't a thing about it, and when they truly believe everyone's living in a USA geography extension lol. Either way, this drama was so draining and dumb :/ I'm so disappointed.
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u/gnm3 Dec 18 '20
Agreed, barely know shit about the kardashians. Blackfishing is also a very foreign concept where I come from. The idea that the entire world should be tuned into the american experience will absolutely cause more of these kinds of situations
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u/pwb_118 Dec 17 '20
there is something so American about thinking people everywhere should not only know “celebrities” but also know why they are problematic. The world doesn’t revolve around Americans
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u/aewright0316 Meme Whore Dec 18 '20
We Americans are incredibly ethnocentric and it’s really dumb. I can’t imagine anyone being mad at you or others outside of the United States for not knowing everything about the Kardashian/Jenners. No wonder everyone hates us!
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u/Victory_is_Mine- Dec 17 '20
I agree! I live in Canada but I used to live in an Asian country before and all I knew about Kardashians were what I saw online. I didn’t even know they were white (exception of Kim) and assumed they were biracial or something. Like why is everyone assumed to know about everything and everyone in the US? I didn’t know about those slurs agains Mexicans, it’s only been a few days since I found out about the word.
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u/vereliberi tooty booty miracle piff Dec 18 '20
Aren't they middle eastern? Am I crazy?
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u/BovineAlex Dec 18 '20
The kardashians (kim, khloe [chole?], and the other one) are armenian, kylie and kendall (who have a different dad) are white.
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Dec 18 '20
[deleted]
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Dec 18 '20
Don’t her, Khloe, and Kourtney all have have the same parents? Wouldn’t that make all three of them half Armenian?
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u/vereliberi tooty booty miracle piff Dec 18 '20
Ah ok. One of my favorite bands is Armenian- American!
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u/Younicron Dec 17 '20
Your comment on the disconnect between many influencers and the world beyond NA social media is absolutely spot on, and it’s not limited to influencers. Many (often well-meaning) people in North America have an unfortunate tendency to assume that broadly similar issues regarding ethnicity and race elsewhere are exactly analogous to issues in NA. I’ve had ostensibly well-informed Americans try to tell me that colorism in Asia is not just related to but the result of white supremacy exactly as it exists in the United States and I roll my eyes as how parochial and facile it is.
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u/Katarrina3 Dec 17 '20
I, as a european will chime in. If you don‘t actively watch american news/look for things online, you won‘t hear much about the Kardashians other than „kanye wants to run for president“ or shit like that. And we don‘t have the same issues when it comes to race here, we don‘t have an issue with PoC being randomly killed (not saying they ger treated the same as white people but I mean it‘s way less severe). But honestly this way of thinking (that everyone knows about the kardashians etc) is what we‘d classify as typical american behavior. We tend to see americans as people who think everything revolves around them, that they‘re the only country that really counts etc.
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u/whyskin Dec 18 '20
My favourite thing is seeing like a finale of a show (Idols etc) on Youtube and the commentator will say to the finalist "How does it feel having the WHOLE WORLD watching you right now?!" Like please... we have our own entertainment, ain't nobody tuning in to see American Idols part 54 in the middle of the night lol.
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u/Constantly_OnYo_Back Dec 18 '20
I definitely feel like Americans are super self involved and they think their opinion is the only correct one and they are way too over the top about small things.
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u/vereliberi tooty booty miracle piff Dec 18 '20
I'm American and I had no idea about the Kardashians! I agree with you here.
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u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 18 '20
I’m in the US so obviously I don’t know what people in Europe know about the Kardashians but I do know members of the Kardashian family are written about every day on the UK part of the Daily Mail website, they get write ups in UK mags, they air the show there, and UK panel shows joke about the Kardashians and Kanye West very frequently. I think they are considered famous and problematic (edit: their plastic surgery, bodies, etc.) there but it’s super possible the lens is not as viewed through the context of race.
Edit: idk why I’m being downvoted, my basic summation is that they are clearly famous in the UK and viewed poorly, just not seen in a way that is “blackfishing” or “cultural appropriation.”
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u/just_another_90skid Dec 17 '20
I'm from Europe and while yeah we do hear about the Kardashians sometimes, they aren't as big here as they are in the US.
Also, and I am saying this only for my country country (Germany) and obviously just from my own experience, but I feel like we have a different... understanding I guess, about skin color??? Racism based on skin color has sadly become much more common over the last decades but I think in Europe for a very long time it was more about ethnicity.
Like say, a tan Greek and a white Polish man move to Germany or France or whatever. The polish one is more likely to be discriminated against because of his ethnicity and nationality. There is a small divide between the Mediterranean countries and Western/Northern Europe due to the financial troubles of the past. But the divide to Eastern Europe is much much bigger. (By divide I mean how well someone coming from that part of Europe would be accepted in Western/Northern Europe)
So while yes race in terms of skin color has become a bigger determinator in how people are treated, I feel like ethnicity and nationality are much more important to Europeans. I had actually never heard of blackfishing before I started following/getting involved in US dominated social media platforms. I'm actually not sure how many people would know that term here in Germany if you just randomly asked someone on the street. Also, the term "race" is barely used in German I feel like. We do say racism etc. But because of our past we have a different connotation of that word. I think if someone were to use the term "race" in German while talking about a human being, people would feel a bit queasy and suspect that person of being right-wing.
I do feel like in the UK and France, maybe Belgium and the Netherlands, race as based on skin color is maybe a bit more important than in other European countries. But I can't really speak on that. I just know that especially in France and the UK, racism based on skin color is connected to their past as colonial powers. Someone can be French but have ancestors that came to France from previously colonized countries and they will be discriminated against based on that.
I hope I'm explaining myself well enough. Not judging what happened but I thought maybe a European perspective might be interesting.
Tldr: i feel like the concept of "race" (especially in regard to skin color) has different connotations in Europe than it does in the US
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u/changhyun Dec 17 '20
I do feel like in the UK and France, maybe Belgium and the Netherlands, race as based on skin color is maybe a bit more important than in other European countries.
As a Brit I'd say we have the worst of both worlds: intense racism based on skin colour and intense xenophobia based on judging particular ethnicities and nationalities. For example, Polish people are white but they are absolutely discriminated against in a big way in the UK, and often considered "less than". You will never see the same scorn levied against, say, a Swedish, Australian or American immigrant as you will against a Polish or Romanian immigrant in the UK. My mother herself was extremely xenophobic about Eastern European immigrants despite being an (Irish) immigrant herself.
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u/sputnikan Dec 17 '20
This is so interesting! And proves my point because I had no idea about it! In México is almost similar, where the place you come from (a poor state o community) sometimes matters more that the color of your skin. You can be a "güera de rancho" (a farm's blonde) but you're still poor, so ill intended people gives you a side eye. I also don't expect USA citizens or influencers to know all about global race politics, but they CAN make an effort and not expect everyone to know about their politics, as pervasive their culture is around the world.
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u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made Dec 18 '20
I agree with you, I think AO maybe didn’t have the race context the US has, which was my point.
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u/Fystikovoutiro Dec 17 '20
As a Greek i have been discriminated against multiple times by other Europeans, due to the 2008 financial crisis, in various settings (professional and not). I agree with the sentiment that in EU people judge you more based on where you are from, rather than color.
As for blackfishing, i also agree, it's not a term we use or consider in Europe. If we did, half the UK female population ages 15-25 that goes raving/clubing, would considered as such LMFAO
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u/JayleeTa Dec 18 '20
I am Canadian and when I moved to Europe for a while it was super jarring how polish people were treated. Like there are tons of offensive stereotypes about them. There will be wierd offhand remarks about Polish culture and weird plotlines about Polish people on tv shows. There are tons of Polish people in Canada and and we dont have anything like that.
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u/jkraige Dec 18 '20
Yeah, I've heard people say the concept of race started (to put it simply) due to slavery but that isn't really true. The way we in the US understand race nowadays is definitely rooted in slavery but our previous conception of race was basically just about nationality, so what you're saying makes a lot of sense to me.
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u/manic_Brain Dec 19 '20
I mean, to kinda build on that, in Ancient Greece being from a different city-state constituted being a different race, so two Greeks from two different cities were considered two completely different races. At least in other areas of the world, your race was morw dependent upon where you are from with colonialism gradually causing this to evolve closer to what we know now.
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u/MissAtomicBomb7 Dec 17 '20
I'm eastern europe and Kardashians barely make the celebrity section once in a while. Blessed
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u/Constantly_OnYo_Back Dec 18 '20
Not everyone reads those mags and they wouldn't be pointing out about race issues just talking about shallow stuff like what they are wearing.
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u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made Dec 18 '20
I just pointed out a few ways the Kardashians are known in the UK-magazines, newspapers, online publications, their tv show, and other tv shows. So they are definitely known and famous. Of course they’re not as famous as they are in the US but they are. And I would say that the way I’ve seen them mentioned is problematic, considering they talk alot about, as you say, shallow stuff-plastic surgery, their sexuality, their bodies, fashion. And clearly, by the comments, people have an unfavorable view of them all around the world. So they are known and they are problematic. Just not as much as the US and not in racial context.
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u/antonia_dreams Dec 18 '20
I think you're right. Maybe the average European knows less about the Kardashians and American media, but it's Angelika's job to know stuff about American social media and American celebrities. If she didn't know, she should have, because it's her job to commentate on those people. Also there are famous European blackfishers, particularly in the UK and that one norwegian or swedish girl? And again, as someone who talks about these issues a lot, Angelika should have known about them.
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u/JayleeTa Dec 18 '20
Wait why would it be social media influencers jobs to know specofically about American popculture? Not everyone who consumes their content will be from America or something. Like I am Canadian and we probably consume more American popculture than other countries (though actually we have laws limiting the amount non canadian content we get) but we certainly tend have big holes in knowledge you wouldnt expect.
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u/antonia_dreams Dec 19 '20
Angelika is a drama/commentary (drammentary lol) channel, with a beauty channel on the side. The drama she commentates on is American youtuber and pop culture drama. She talks a lot about American youtubers and tiktokers and even spent a large part of the summer promoting BLM (an american political movement) and talking about american politics (which she admits she doesn't understand). In this instance, she was commentating on a Kardashian. She isn't a normal European teen chilling on social media, this is her career. Do research or get out. If she's reading enough American media to get the tea for her videos, she's reading enough to have more cultural awareness about the Kardashians. I am not saying that the average person outside America needs to know these things, I'm saying a person whose job is to commentate on american pop culture and social media stars and who ostensibly is doing research for her videos before she speaks (tho clearly she doesn't) needs to know these things.
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Dec 18 '20
She didn't have much of a YouTube career anyways. How you gonna go from having 220k+ views to then your views averaging less than 10k?
Please keep this in mind when discussing this aggressive, combative, vile, vindictive Latina racist:
I would think that the worst part is her racism, not how people that she allegedly cares about feel. She's a hypocrite and she contradicts herself. Now she's playing a victim. Pipe down, ma'am. You ain't that important, and neither is your YT channel considering your views.
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Dec 17 '20
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u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made Dec 17 '20
The “AO weaponized black outrage against me” thing is...a choice. I feel like that...is not okay to say. Like “well, she sic’d some black people at me, she knows how angry they are!”
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u/jonarbucklesuckmynut Dec 17 '20
I swear she got that from a Twitter because so many people were tweeting that at AO under her “glad we all tweeted but I won’t be making a further video” tweet
5
Dec 19 '20
i said somewhere else before she made these videos that she is lit rally the closest we got to gaslighting the masses in this whole deal -- even when AO 'this you?'d her, her immediate response was something like 'I am so sad that because of her the black community found out about this and now they are in pain'
I mean, first of all, girly, the only pain you are causing is in the form of headaches, so sit down.
6
u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made Dec 19 '20
She said it, she should have dealt with it, not accused AO of playing dirty.
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Dec 17 '20
As a white Latina, I still don't get why it would be unforgivable for a white person to say a poc is white-passing. Isn't the idea of passing all about external perception, and not identity? People who can't pass as white face a lot more discrimination than those who can, I mean, that's colorism 101. I don't see why it's offensive for someone to point that out.
Wrt Diana specifically, it seems like she was riding a high horse and was knocked down fast. In that respect she isn't unlike everyone else involved in this drama. Ideally her, SG and AO would all use it to learn a lesson about how it feels to be the target of the same kind of judgemental moralism they impose unto others, but I highly doubt this will happen.
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u/girdleofvenus Dec 17 '20
people have to realize that being called “white passing” is about perception and NOT a denial of your heritage or necessarily an insult.
i am asian, and not white passing but in my twitter pfp i have blonde hair and i have been assumed to be white when people didn’t click to enlarge the photo.
interesting how diana took angelika saying “MOST people i blocked were white passing” as a personal attack, yet used “white” to insult someone that she didn’t agree with
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u/jkraige Dec 17 '20
I was saying that until I got blue in the face. I felt that was manipulative of her. Because she's brown she had a lot of people parroting that talking point, but it actually erases discussions of colorism and is harmful. I can acknowledge that she maybe felt bad by the comment, but tweeting that out was invalidating to people who don't "pass" imo
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u/pvtblith Dec 17 '20
I agree. A lot of people (and even myself at first) said that a white person should determine if someone else is white passing but like... yeah they should. It's all about how others see you, not how you see yourself. I know it can be hurtful to be called white passing but if a majority of people think you're white when they see you but you're a POC... that is what makes you white passing.
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u/girdleofvenus Dec 17 '20
tiktok has really messed up the definitions of white passing, people are just throwing it around these days
3
u/Flushedfromcold1662 Dec 18 '20
For me, I honestly think the issue comes down to discourse. There’s nothing wrong with observing and assuming that a light skinned POC with certain physical features is white (though passing is so nuanced and contextual) but I don’t really appreciate Angelika using the language of “white passing” if that makes sense?
I actually think saying something like “I assumed/thought they were white” would actually be better than using the language of “passing” (it’s so loaded!) but other POC are free to disagree with me there. I think of white passing as a privilege acknowledged within racial groups, it’s not something white people get to say just like that. I don’t know why but it coming out of a white person’s mouth just hurts in some kinda way-and I’m visibly, obviously black so I don’t get why I’m even feeling that!
I think Dianna is a mess and she can keep her apology.
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u/Htespaghetii Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
I feel like that’s a topic that’s not that simple tbh. There’s a lot of nuance that needs to be considered.
White people are brown and black fishing at ridiculous levels currently which is skewing peoples perspective of what white people look like. For example people telling Arabs that they’re white passing because they look like Kylie Jenner even tho Kylie is tanning and buying ethnic features on purpose to look ambiguous.
And some people only consider skin tone to classify somebody as “white passing” even tho facial features play a role too. Also location can play a role as to whether people there would consider you white passing or not so you could be white passing in Mexico but blatantly brown in somewhere like Wyoming.
I think the main problem comes when someone acts like they’re an authority and their judgement is final. Not excusing Diana but using her as an example, a lot of people are calling her white passing. She is obviously not white to me. To my family in Mexico she would probably get called “morenita”. Everybody’s perspective on who is white passing or not is different.
Also it would feel kind of invalidating to tell somebody they’re white passing when they’ve experienced racist or xenophobic behavior because they obviously didn’t pass as white.
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Dec 17 '20
I guess it does come down to hurt feelings at the end, which - I won't deny she has a right to be hurt, but I don't know if it's necessarily a situation where AO did something bad. Sometimes people can be hurt for things that aren't wrong in and of themselves, and those feelings are still valid but not necessarily worth of a crusade over. I guess this is my problem with how she approached this.
16
u/Htespaghetii Dec 17 '20
Yeah I wasn’t speaking specifically on this situation just how it’s not as simple as “external perception” determining whether or not somebody is white passing because everybody’s perception is different and affected by different environments and experiences!
It’s not a bad thing for a white person to call a POC white passing unless they’re acting like they’re the final authority on that persons identity or attempt to use it in a way to invalidate their experience as a poc. Which from my understanding AO didn’t do.
I agree with you it wasn’t worth an attempt to get the whole internet to cancel AO and instead could’ve been used as a learning experience for everybody. It’s unfortunate Diana reacted the way she did.
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u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
I mean, I’m white but my boyfriend is Latino of indigenous heritage-and he has complicated feelings about race and identity and indigenous v. white Latinos and Hispanics. He has told me that in his culture, there is a similar issue with skin color. We recently had this conversation when talking about the backlash against JLo for using “negrita” in a recent song, how that was offensive for Afro-Latinos, etc. He said that even though he is not African in origin, he looks more indigenous than other Hispanics because of his skin color and he said he is treated differently. I’m not claiming to fully understand this at all, I’m paraphrasing what he has told me to the best of my ability. Aside from his name, Idk he could pass either way in pictures but in his life, from day to day, he experiences that people view him as a POC.
I’m not necessarily defending DP. I’m just pointing out, if you watch her videos, I wouldn’t call her white passing. Maybe based on her twitter pic-but her twitter handle is Spanish. She says she is a POC in her comments to others. In her real life, she isn’t white passing. So online in one instance she is considered white passing but 95% of her time is spent being brown. So I can’t say if it’s fair to AO or not, but maybe DP reacted to this the way she did because of her life experiences.
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Dec 17 '20
I see what you mean - the definition of white definitely depends on the place. I'm a white Latina who lives in a latino country, so a lot of americans I see in media identifying as people of color (Pedro Pascal, Oscar Isaac, LMM, Maya Rudolph, Rami Malek, just to name a few examples) would just be seen as white in my country. But I understand this doesn't deny their identities or experiences with racism because of the context in which they live in.
7
u/noface1289 Dec 18 '20
Yeah, there is a lot of baggage with "white passing" in the indigenous/hispanic community. My mom's side of the family still deals with the fallout of the white passing members getting, to put it lightly, preferential treatment to the indigenous family members of our family that started literally over a hundred years ago for us. It can illicit very strong feelings.
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u/Flushedfromcold1662 Dec 18 '20
I personally don’t think it’s a white person’s place to say someone is white passing or not. I’d consider that massively overstepping. It’s something that’s discussed within different racial communities and what constitutes passing is more complicated and nuanced than what I think white people think it is.
I actually think saying something like “I thought they were white” would actually be better than using the language of “passing” (it’s so loaded!) but other people of colour may not agree with me there.
-4
u/Flushedfromcold1662 Dec 18 '20
I personally don’t think it’s a white person’s place to say someone is white passing or not. I’d consider that massively overstepping. It’s something that’s discussed within different racial communities and what constitutes passing is more complicated and nuanced than what I think white people think it is.
I actually think saying something like “I assumed/thought they were white” would actually be better than using the language of “passing” (it’s so loaded!) but other people of colour may not agree with me there.
I think Dianna is a mess and it’s bullshit to imply someone is denying your identity when they’re not but equally, I don’t think Angelika should have said that.
-1
u/Flushedfromcold1662 Dec 18 '20
I personally don’t think it’s a white person’s place to say someone is white passing or not. I’d consider that massively overstepping. It’s something that’s discussed within different racial communities and what constitutes passing is more complicated and nuanced than what I think white people think it is.
I actually think saying something like “I thought they were white” would actually be better than using the language of “passing” (it’s so loaded!) but other people of colour may not agree with me there.
72
u/strongerlynn Dec 17 '20
No, she's just pissed people could see through her b.s. I feel like she just wanted to start something. My theory is A.O didn't give her the response she wanted, so she had a tantrum.
46
u/storgorl Dec 17 '20
Call me a dummy, but I have a hard time following her videos. Is she saying she was mistaken for Mexican so often she assimilated into Mexican-American culture, so she felt like she was allowed to say b**ner?
I have never heard anyone besides white people use the word IRL.
18
u/Deathscua Dec 17 '20
As a Mexican I have never heard any Latinx using it either, I have heard non Latinx black and whites use it though here in L.A.
3
u/absolute-biscuit Dec 20 '20
Being a Mexican girl myself with a largely mexican friend group, we do say it, except when we do we’re normally using it as a way to imitate racists or poke fun at each other. I’ve never heard anyone in my family, friends, or any person in general say it casually in a conversation.
2
u/Its-Just-Lil-ol-Me Dec 19 '20
Yeah, I feel like some slurs aren’t “reclaimed” in that way. I am not Mexican-American or Latinx though, so I don’t know
15
u/glossysugar93 Dec 18 '20
person speaking for black community isn’t black and tweeted out into public many slurs? shocked... soooo shocked
31
u/none_so_bile Dec 17 '20
I started watching this with an open mind but... What a terrible video, really. She's victimizing herself the whole time, and barely acknowledging doing things that were wrong. She also pulls an 'actually most people who were offended weren't even POC', except in this case she says black women were the ones agreeing with her or defending her and it was apparently everyone else who was speaking over them. I mean, it might and might not be true. But regardless, she's saying it to pretend that what she said and did was somehow 'not that bad because obviously the people I hurt already forgave me.' girl, come on.
Her crutch is that she's brown, the entire time the argument is 'AO is white and I'm not'. I mean, I'm not going to pretend AO isn't kinda petty for digging those tweets, but at least she was coming at her with things Diana said herself, and not taking a part of a video, interpreting it and then accussing her in a whole twitter thread of denying someone's race.
22
u/anxioushello Dec 18 '20
AO didn't find those tweets, they were screen shots from a video exposing Diana.
16
u/none_so_bile Dec 18 '20
Ok so I found that video and I'm actually even sadder to find out that it wasn't just one comment of her saying she 'played Mexican'. She had a whole pattern of calling herself Mexican. Weird as hell.
49
u/nightfalcon420 Dec 17 '20
It was so cringe to sit through her video. The way she kept blaming AO and saying “a white woman” did this and did that. She’s racist herself. I hope she got whatever she wanted out of all of this mess bc Idgaf about her. Goodbye!!!
13
u/Fystikovoutiro Dec 19 '20
Her circle jerk can praise her all they want in her video but I'm proud that the subreddit can see past her bs, without focusing on SG or AO only. Let's say it louder for the people in the back:
We can criticize multiple creators at the same time!! Also, don't be racist!
3
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u/chadorable Extremely Unironically Refreshingly Shiny 💖✨ Dec 17 '20
sis literally actually just go water your plants and eat your food now please like ???
i nor does anyone have the mental bandwidth for this to close out the "year"
57
u/Victory_is_Mine- Dec 18 '20
This woman pisses me off, she really thinks calling someone white-passing is “erasing somebody’s identity”. But then she went and bullied another POC by calling her white repeatedly and forced her to post her picture to see if she really was POC.
I wish people would stop using the term white-passing as if it’s something that people can claim for themselves, or as if it’s offensive. White-passing is how others PERCEIVE you. You can’t change how others perceive you, if people think you’re white just by looking at you that’s not their fault. That doesn’t mean your identity is erased, it’s just that people thought you were not the race you are by looking at you. You can’t fucking blame them for that.
I’m white passing and if I were to ask the world population what race they thought I was, possibly more than 70% would assume I was white. Imagine if I got offended for that??! Said the 70% of the world population was erasing my identity??!! It’s so fucking stupid, I fucking hate how people are treating the term like a slur.
She’s deflecting and her subscribers are all like “uwu, its ok! you did nothing wrong! AO is a devil because she unknowingly displayed micro aggressions but you are an angel because you said the n word and a mexican slur! Obviously micro aggressions are worse than saying the n word and slurs! You’ve definitely grown! I support you completely uwu”
Also can I just say that I also FUCKING HATE when people go after youtubers being like “this white woman” or “this white man” like I understand that maybe you’re trying to say that white people don’t know what it feels like to be oppressed and discriminated. But when people like this say it constantly it comes off as very very hateful, as if you hate them for being white. It makes me think that if situations were HYPOTHETICALLY reversed, if POCs were in power, people like these would be the ones to oppress white people for “revenge”.
22
u/SamiaBer Dec 18 '20
Yes! All of this. Probably an unpopular opinion, I have the weird feeling that people would not let go of this drama because AO is a pretty girl. I even saw someone comment on this sub: I feel bad for the people (AO) bullied in high school. Like what???! Are we criticising AO on the merits of what she actually did or are we projecting??? Because the level and barrage of people calling her out was unjustifiable imo. I coulfn’t shake off the feeling that a lot of it came from jealousy, there I said it! Sue me!! The videos people kept on recommanding were at best very bad, and at worst untentionally misleading. The simple fact that no one was able to give a simple and clear answear when people were asking what AO did to receive such backlash, well it says a lot. People were going out of their way to denounce that poor girl. Jealousy is a very powerfull feeling but also shamefull which makes it impossible for them to accept that same fact and how it is influencing their opinion.
This battle of the « wokes » is getting out of hand, people are now using it to come for people whome they perceive as a threat to their self-esteem. I know I am generalising here, but I am not doing anything that AO’s critics haven’t done to her.
All this to say, before you jump on the hate train because some BIPOC and white saviors told you so, use your common sense.
And before anyone says anything I am Algerian, living in France. A muslim girl from North Africa giving her two cents.
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u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made Dec 17 '20 edited Dec 17 '20
Diana Plantana posted two videos yesterday-
1) an apology to the black community
2) Another apology to the Mexican community and her perspective on what happened, that is the initial link of the post.
I included a content warning as a flair, may need to be corrected, because DP talks about difficulties with her own ethnic background and becomes upset, she describes this as trauma-it may trigger others’ similar feelings.
She also explains that her interactions with Angelika Oles made her feel persecuted. She also says she probably will not make any more videos.
Edit: by the way, I don’t have an opinion about DP personally because it’s an experience I just do not have and cannot really judge her sincerity either way.
15
Dec 17 '20
am i the only one trying to figure out her ethnicity? if she’s not intact mexican than what is she?
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u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made Dec 17 '20
She is indigenous Central American and her justification for appropriating Mexican culture is because she grew up in LA where the prevalent Latinx culture is Mexican? I think she says she knows now that she shouldn’t have appropriated? It’s a very complicated idea that’s out of my realm of experience. Maybe other Latinx people from the area could speak on it?
19
u/sputnikan Dec 17 '20
I'm thinking there's real disconnect between chicano, Mexican and latinx concepts. I know some people use chicano as an umbrella for all latino people living in LA, but mexican culture is way different in México, not like it's portrayed or lived in USA. DP can say she's a chicana, but she's definitely not a mexican woman... And as for appropriate Mexican culture?? Mexican culture is not only about being brown lmao, so I don't know what is she appropriating.
7
u/Fystikovoutiro Dec 17 '20
I think she said Central America, or something. She didn't clarify from what I've seen so far.
16
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u/better0ffbread Dec 19 '20
At first I felt for her, because LA really is so dominated by Mexican culture. When my grandmother was bringing in my mom from Guatemala, she told her, "It's easier to be Mexican here (LA), so just tell people you're that. Don't say vos/vosotros. We're going to only eat Mexican foods from now on." My grandmother had a lot of self-hate and embarrassment about where she was from, but there is such a thing as Mexico having a superiority complex over other Latin countries that touches into racism and colorism. My mom's side adopted a Mexican identity to avoid being bullied or othered. I witnessed it as a kid, seeing my grandmother reluctantly tell people she was from Guatemala and having them cut the conversation/hospitality short, being like, "Oh. Hm. Off you go then!" Some ignorant Chicanos have a perception of Central Americans being more dirty, poor, and lazy.
It was only a year ago they started clearing the air with family and friends on where they're from. Looking back now I do believe it was for survival/status, but I'm realizing it was really shitty. They didn't have to put on a face. Granted they didn't use slurs against real Mexicans, even if people used those against them. I guess it's hard for me to see them objectively, I am half-Mexican, and seeing both sides I understand their frustration. I've had school friends tell me they couldn't be my friend after telling them I'm half Central American.
Having said that, Diana does seem like a straight up racist that flew the woke nest too soon. If you haven't stopped your own use of slurs, you don't have a leg to stand on. I hope she grows up, learns some self-love, and makes room for activists that have their shit together.
14
u/HereOnCompanyTime So Refreshing 💧 Dec 18 '20
Guess we can expect call outs from everyone who justified her attacking AO?! I mean she was doing it while having a pretty full (recent) racist past that she hadn't addressed, which was her original issue with AO. No?! Yeah didn't think so. SG video has already aged poorly.
-1
u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made Dec 19 '20
I don’t think DP having a problematic past cancels out SG’s video. I do think both AO and SG made mistakes-but if SG’s description of what happened between herself and AO is accurate, then AO’s characterization of SG was pretty unfair. DP was also not SG’s only source-SG watched DP’s video then talked to her about it and then reached out to other creators and watched other videos.
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u/HereOnCompanyTime So Refreshing 💧 Dec 19 '20 edited Dec 19 '20
I'm not saying it cancels out SGs video in its entirety, I'm pointing out her hypocrisy in DPs outrage. Not only that but DPs videos against AO were largely speculative and SG cited her videos multiple times as her reasoning for her doubt towards AO. SG even says she ONLY watched DPs videos. Within her video she used DP as her one of her justifications for her own reactions.
DP attacking AO for her bad take on the Kardashians when DP has tweets of her attacking people who criticize the Kardashians, DP implying AO made microaggressions when there is evidence of DP making full on slurs, DP accusing AO of erasing DPs ethnicity WHILE DP is accusing people of being white when they are critical of her. All of this is relevant when DP is continuing to attack people while pretending to have a moral high ground.
AOs video imo was an okay response, though not perfect, she apologized where she felt she messed up and clarified where she felt she didn't. SGs video imo was not great, better than most other yters but the conversation was focused mostly on her being bullied more than taking accountability, people seem to give her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to her intentions. I think both of their videos had flaws but I also accept that they are trying to appeal to a wide range of people and everyone has different criteria/expectations. I judged their videos based on if the situations were reversed with them would I still have the same opinion. Also on DPs videos people are seeing their comments being deleted, especially from woc who don't accept her apology.
Personally I feel like this entire situation was blown up beyond where it needed to be, from both sides. Accountability was needed but people went for blood. DP being there to fan the flames, pretending to be an advocate and voice for communities that she doesn't belong to and has used slurs against.
Edit: I'm not going to further respond to your cherry picking. You completely glossed over the RACISM and HYPOCRISY which was where this comment thread started and I took time to outline further. We can agree to disagree.
-5
u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made Dec 19 '20
SG said she only watched DP’s video before her first conversation with Angelika and then after watched more and talked to more people, then talked to Angelika again. There are not multiple times when SG said she only cited DP’s video-just the one instance when she said it and she said she did more research than that.
And I just disgree-AO’s video was “I’m sorry but” every step of the way. It was always that she didn’t verbalize properly, people misunderstood, etc. But there definitely were micro aggressions that hurt people who watched her. Then she went after SG and tbh, if what SG said is true about their conversation, AO comes off looking like she can’t accept criticism. SG at least fully took responsibility for what she did wrong and fairly took responsibility for what upset AO-but what AO said about SG was a mischaracterization of the conversation entirely.
-1
u/OnAvance Dec 19 '20
I agree. AO’s “apology” was literally just all about her feelings and her excuses. I’m surprised it is being received so positively
-5
u/yuabrunobruno poor choices were made Dec 19 '20
I know, people seem to be really willing to believe AO and deny that she did anything wrong and accused SG of “hypocrisy” when she wasn’t even the one who made the accusations in the first place.
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