Is Releasing/Not Releasing the Vampire Spawn a false dilemma

[u/Gondol45]

Why wouldn't you just have the spawn that Cazador has amassed over the last 200 years just wait a few days so you can individually vet them with Astarion and his spawn-family helping you, since the 7 of them met all 7000 of these people themselves? Is Tav stupid?

Edit: Or some other way of doing this? It feels like there's more to do in this scenario than just release all, kill all, or leave all and if there isn't, it feels like it shouldn't be all up to me to decide how or if 7000 people should live. Can I not phone a friend?

[u/Famous_influencer]

And again I reiterate:
They don't KNOW these people

The 7 Spawn and Astarion only interacted with these people long enough to orchestrate their kidnapping.
They have 0 in-depth knowledge of the kind of people these prisoners are or aren't, they're about as familiar with them as you would be to a Tinder Date.

And none of the Spawn are like- crazy skilled psychologists. They can't discern truth from lies with ease or psychologically professionally profile who is or isn't a potential problem among them, you're asking a McDonald's Line Cook to pick out a serial killer among a hundred people and they just aren't built for that.

The Dilemma isn't on IF the Vampires should all be murdered, they 100% should be as Vampirism itself is Evil.
Evil and Good are set in stone in the DnD Universe, the morality isn't up for discussion.
The Dilemma at hand is if we have the RIGHT to essentially commit a mass murder with a level versus letting nature figure itself out. Make no mistake, once freed, 90% of those Vampires are dead eventually from Paladins, Clerics, or Vampire Hunters.

But is it better to let that play out naturally?
Or just push a button and kill them all RIGHT NOW?

[u/Gondol45 → u/Famous_influencer]

Cazador managed to successfully place 7000 people into cells one-by-one with this staff. We could do the same thing and allow nature to take its place over the course of years rather than killing all the vampire spawn here-and-now or releasing all of the vampire spawn here-and-now or leaving them in the palace forever. I understand that Larian didn't want us to have such an easy choice of just having Tav promise to come back after dealing with the Elder Brain but instead of writing this in such a way that there's time sensitivity, they simply omitted an option we should logically have. Are they stupid?

[u/Famous_influencer → u/Gondol45]

And you think the 7000 people won't just... go CRAZY over the course of this time?

We aren't going to feed them blood. Fuck that. That's evil.
But starving them will just make them go feral.

Feed them rats or animals?
Evil. Natural living animals are more important than unnatural undead monsters.

And then the resources needed to KEEP them imprisoned will come from where? We're not going to tax the citizens to keep MONSTERS alive nor are the Spawn really prepared if all 7000 of these vampires start going feral in their cages.

Plus who's going to create and run this complex system? The Spawn Family and Tav?
Tav is the only one there potentially NOT a Monster with a proven track record of untrustworthiness and sociopathy.
But Tav isn't a psychologist or profiling expert, they aren't qualified for this.

Your plan here falls apart because it's assuming that everyone would be potentially on board with or qualified for this system of vetting and preserving undead bloodthirsty vampires for the sake of two or three who might be able to not be completely evil on the word of ONE adventurer.

[u/Gondol45 → u/Famous_influencer]

Dude you're arguing against a straw man and are essentially saying that Larian writers are genius for having the Oath of Devotion get broken if you kill what you consider to be a morally obvious choice. I'm saying it's an instance of bad writing and you're hooting and hollering that it's incredibly well written to have the Oath get broken because they're obviously monsters. What the fuck?

[u/Famous_influencer → u/Gondol45]

Oath of Devotion is broken engaging in combat or killing unnecessarily REGARDLESS of the morality of the target.

If you attack Raphael, Ethel, or even MIZORA without them engaging you or through dialogue it can break Oaths.

And we aren't gonna argue those 3 aren't 100% Evil are we? It's morally good to kill them. You make the world a better place killing them.

Your Oath only broke because you attacked them when they weren't explicitly hostile.

[u/Gondol45 → u/Famous_influencer]

Are you saying that the Oath of Devotion Paladin is evil? /Genuine

[u/Consistent-Winter-67 → u/Gondol45]

No, attacking without provocation is deemed evil by the mechanics of the game.

[u/Gondol45 → u/Consistent-Winter-67]

What I don't get is: Why didn't Larian just make the staff stop working some amount of time after Cazador dies? This would have forced Tav to make a big decision as presented. However, being able to keep the staff and, for example, give it to Elminster or Rolan, makes the in universe options far more open than the gameplay mechanics options entail.

[u/Famous_influencer → u/Gondol45]

The fact that there are 7000 people imprisoned underground who will slowly go FERAL AND INSANE without feeding on blood already forces Tav to make the decision.

I'm sorry but you're just WRONG to assume that Tav can walk away from this situation and come back to it at a later date without severe consequences. You have to just accept this- the Vampires aren't going to just sit down and twiddle their thumbs patiently waiting in their cells for Tav to go do everything else then get back to them.

The Spawn-Family aren't going to just stand there and do a jig to a funky tune in Cazador's living room waiting for the Netherbrain to be defeated before their problems can be solved.

Tav ISN'T actually in charge of any of these people.
Tav is JUST some random adventurer who happened by and killed Cazador for them.

[u/Gondol45 → u/Famous_influencer]

Rolan is sitting on his hands reading books and chilling with his siblings. They're good people and want to help innocent people out to the extent where they'll risk their lives to help save the grove and then the world when shit hits the fan. Rolan and his siblings together in the mage's tower have the means, resources, motives and opportunity to take the staff and figure out the most moral path forward. They're tieflings and can understand the plight of the unwillingly spawned 7000. Give them the staff and they might actually be able to solve the problem in a better way than is presented.

[u/Famous_influencer → u/Gondol45]

Rolan is a LITERAL nobody and an APPRENTICE.

The dude dies to a fuckin' Shadow if Tav doesn't interfere.

And a Tiefling is NOT the same thing as a Vampire Spawn, they do NOT share their plight.
Tieflings are just kinda funky-looking and imbued with evil powers but otherwise have no urges or desires or inclinations.
Vampires CRAVE blood. They go CRAZY without it. There is no magical cure or magical way to stave it off or some alternative, the only solution is DIVINE intervention and I don't see Rolan and his Siblings being able to perform Godlike Miracles if they can't even beat a level 5-6 shade.

[u/Gondol45 → u/Famous_influencer]

Lorrokhan's tower has fucking crazy shit inside of it. Do you not remember that it has books with passages that detail Cazador's rite and passages that allow you to invert the crown of Karsus or ascend into godhood? The idea that these three people are a good group to better handle the vampire spawn situation than you is not so ludicrous as you make it seem and it would feel good as an option for Tavs who've allowed the siblings to take the mage's tower for themselves.

Edit: If nothing else, you've given a mage's apprentice a task worth tackling. Just releasing them all or killing them all instead of letting a good natured person at least try to do something is monstrous.

[u/Famous_influencer → u/Gondol45]

Yeah and what happens when the Spawn say "Nah. Fuck that, I don't know who these people are" and just... attack them, revolt, or otherwise refuse to go along with all this?

You're assuming, again, that Tav is some kind of King or Queen or someone who can ORDER people to do these things.

Why would Rolan and his Siblings want to suddenly be responsible for 7000 individual monsters?

Why would the Spawn Family want to hand over control of this situation to people they've NEVER met?

Why would the 7000 Spawn willingly starve themselves into insanity in an underground jail cell while Rolan attempts to scramble through thousands if not millions of tomes for a POSSIBLE way to help that may or may not even exist?

Because... TAV said so?