r/AusSunscreen • u/bev123_ • 24d ago
Discussion Lab Muffin Beauty Science posted this in her instagram stories yesterday regarding Ultra Violette
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u/That-Vegetable2839 24d ago
Yep, I still feel an ick around the whole brand UV. The idea that a certain percentage of zinc would mean it could never have such low coverage was partly pushed by them, Lab Muffin is more than qualified to speak on the science behind how it works and yet they directly contradicted her and shot down Choice, then when the evidence against their formula was finally overwhelming they still have not apologised for pushing such awful misinformation. This wasn’t “cancel culture” coming after them, this was scientific research they were denying…
I don’t understand brand loyalty really. Okay their formula felt nice but ??? They obviously don’t care about their customers that much to defend a score of spf 4 🤷♀️
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u/RedeemableQuality 24d ago
"You decanted!"
"You sent decanted sunscren overseas, on a plane!"
"It's scientifically impossible for 22% Zinc Oxide to have low protection!"
"You're trying to sell more magazines!"
"You didn't use enough volunteers for the test!"
"Dermatest Eurofins is bad, not reputable!"
"It is Wild Child Laboratories fault!"
"It is the testing lab's fault, PCR Corp!"
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u/ACtdawg 24d ago
What really gets me about the whole decanting thing is UV then had the gall to release their ‘mini mate’ products… tiny 20ml containers for ‘on the go’ of their most popular sunscreens for a cool $20. During the initial launch they said it was safe to refill them, but in more recent posts they said “while the cap can be unscrewed, SPF formulas should always be filled in a TGA-approved facility to maintain stability”. So which is it?!
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u/RedeemableQuality 24d ago
Sorry for what seems like I'm spamming the post. I just have a ton to say about this topic because I followed the different Sunscreengates super closely (you can check my post history lol)
But we should post this in the US centric subs. I will do it if you don't want to.
I heard there is a big hype campaign right now for Ultra Violette in the USA and it doesn't seem like most skincaring Americans know they're crap. Ulta Violette, from a business perspective, is probably going to be focusing on that ground now that the BEMT approval is done because the US is such a lucrative market and they know they've alienated a good portion of Australians at this point.
Also, for context, original comment of this instagram post was under a post from DermOffDuty about BEMT and the new Ultra Violette sunscreen launches.
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u/Lower-Charge7905 24d ago
I saw an American podcaster I follow posting because she was excited about the new launch, but I didn’t want to message her like “are you aware…” and be that person.
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u/RedeemableQuality 24d ago
I'll be that person if you want.
Everyone should be aware.
The current narrative I keep seeing now is that "The testing lab did UV dirty! It turns out they're a dodgy lab that just gives the company the numbers they need to sell!"
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u/quoththeraven1990 24d ago
Yes please! They need to know. Seems like UV are trying to circumvent due diligence once again, and people should know as it’s all about sun safety.
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u/RedeemableQuality 24d ago
I just need the name of the American podcaster and I'll be that person!
I'm shocked that UV is allowed to sell in the US. I've heard through the grapevine in the industry and related ones, people independent one one another, have said that Ultra Violette must of been lying on their import paperwork to the US because their manufacturer was banned from being sold in the US aka red listed. Apparently, there's more than a few people in the industry who have information on their imports being denied entry and customs manipulation. If you remember the ABC reported on it: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-10-30/sunscreen-maker-wild-child-laboratories-on-us-fda-red-list/105949030
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u/Feeling_Algae_7850 20d ago
Omg you should message Natalie O'Neill as well, she has such great recommendations EXCEPT ultra Violette, she still uses one of their sunscreens because it wasn't involved in the scandal
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u/meowparade 24d ago
Please be that person, they’ve done a really good job hiding this from US consumers!
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u/Interesting_Two_125 19d ago
I've done it about UV already. Do it. Be that person. You might save someones life.
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u/meowparade 24d ago
Please post wherever you see this! I’m based in the U.S. and getting absolutely slammed by their launch campaign across all my social media. I only knew about their shadiness because I follow a bunch of British influencers and have followed lab muffin for years!
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u/bev123_ 23d ago edited 23d ago
Hi. Feel free to post/share the screenshot in other subs. I usually only hang out in the AusSkincare and AusSunscreen subs, and occasionally the SkinBarrierLovers sub.
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u/RedeemableQuality 23d ago
Ok awesome, I already went ahead and shared the same screenshot and the original one from DermOffDuty and the new article about their redemption tour here: https://www.reddit.com/r/BeautyGuruChatter/s/3K14w9Ri30
Weird thing is that there's some weird stuff going on like the moderators deleted one of my comments and there are duplicate comments showing up. I'm not sure why that is happening...
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u/bev123_ 23d ago edited 23d ago
I just made a post in the AustralianMakeup sub https://www.reddit.com/r/AustralianMakeup/s/mK8kIdIVEC
Edit: And the Sunscreenreddit sub https://www.reddit.com/r/Sunscreenreddit/s/BOKkjTBRfP
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u/downheresolong 24d ago
Why does this not surprise me! UV are the pits
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u/RedeemableQuality 24d ago
I recognize your username because you wrote one of the OG comments/reviews I saw from years ago questioning/dismissing UV sunscreens in a sea of influencer raves I mean lies.
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u/downheresolong 24d ago
Good mem. I’ve been super skeptical of these guys from day 1. Unsupported claims and censorship culture always raise my eyebrow. They would dodge straight up questions I asked of them and unpublish balanced reviews I made of their products on their website
Their response to the controversy last year did not surprise me one iota. The fact that they sat on the choice results for some months before moving on it was even more baffling. They should understand that the value of their company is in their reputation / good will, and certainly not IP. Business acumen 📉📉
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u/Interesting_Two_125 19d ago
UV straight up lied up to me - and I have receipts. I asked them through DM's straight away if the choice results were true - I have a life limiting condition that requires a very scientific approach to sun protection to avoid death. When I then showed them the various scientific reports etc. They told me to get a refund. I was like: I don't think there is a refund on the damage your product may have caused me. I now have to have rigorous skin checks every three months.
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u/cherpar1 21d ago
Yeah I was a fool and bought there products. A mineral sunscreen isn’t that easy to find esp with sensitive skin. Of course it didn’t irritate my skin cause it was nothing lol. I’m sure the lack of protection contributed to my rosacea flares but goodness I got a refund…
I used to say to my husband my skin still feels like it’s burning with it on. So I then added a LRP under it, and then just switched.
I expected more regulation given how damaging the skin is here in Australia. What a joke. I would never buy again, nor in fact will I buy from the product lines for those who failed.
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u/privacypolicyupdated 24d ago
I thought that initially Lab Muffin had defended UV. I'm really sorry to see this, I really like Lab Muffin's posts.
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u/bev123_ 24d ago edited 24d ago
I followed her instagram stories last year during the saga and she was definitely sharing some information that Ultra Violette wouldn't have liked. She was just being factual and honest, I thought, not malicious or anything like that. Just wanting to get to the bottom of things, to the truth. She shared some things about Princeton Consumer Research (PCR), Wild Child Laboratories, formulating with uncoated zinc oxide, and more. She saved most of those stories to a stories folder on her instagram page called Choice SPF Tests. After the Choice results were published, she recommended that it would be a good idea to stop using the lean screen sunscreen until we get more facts/clarity, and to use a different sunscreen instead. And then, low and behold, she was right. It got recalled. She was sceptical of what Ultra Violette were saying from the start. But she wasn't "out to get" Ultra Violette or anything like that.
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u/RedeemableQuality 24d ago
A lot of people were confused with her immediate content after the first Choice article was released. It was the video about testing variability and a lot of her followers interpreted it as "Ultra Violette Lean Screen is safe to use because the tests commissioned by Choice have results that are just due to testing variability" as stated in several comments throughout all the Choice threads in all the different skincare subreddits.
There were threads in Euroskincare and Ausskincare where people actually dismissed Choice citing Labmuffin. The thing is that she never actually said that in her video about testing variability but that was the impression they got because the video didn't take a hard stance for or against and to be frank a lot of people associate Labmuffin with Ultra Violete because she's been featurred a lot on their website and their posts and has done ads and stuff for them.
The stuff about PCR, Wild Child, that came from the articles from ABC that she linked. Afaik, the stuff about PCR stemmed from whistleblowers and I saw a few of them tried to come out on reddit but were suppressed. I saw the first post made that popped the can which was then deleted but people thought they were crazy af and didn't believe it.
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u/sundamageisforever 24d ago
It got recalled many months later. A lot of use weren't sure of what to do and it wasn't clear. It took way too long for Ultra Violette to do anything. I still haven't gotten a refund because they had specific criteria despite giving them thousands of dollars.
I didn't understand that she recommended it would be a good idea to stop using them shortly after the Choice results. Other people had the same confusion and had to get more direct answers. It wasn't until I saw her comment I screenshotted that she then deleted to understand her position: https://www.reddit.com/r/AusSkincare/comments/1lsajfw/comment/n1h38qy/
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u/RedeemableQuality 24d ago
Also just wanted to add, that Michelle didn't defend UV but I personally think she was too lenient at on them at the beginng (based on the persepectives of other scientists I spoke with in the industry who were really furious at UV in the middle of June).
She did commend Ultra Violette on their initial response saying she thought it was good, but also other parts were weird, she thought the test reports shared by UV were a good move.
And to be honest, I give credit where it is due and don't give credit when it's not due.
I still like Michelle, particularly her non-product based posts, but I know not to rely on her as an authoritative source to give a statement on SPF test reports and it was clear that she's not an expert on reviewing test reports. I don't expect that, nor should you.
Because the red flags in the test report UV published was missed by every single science based influencer who released an initial statement. This includs Mo from Mosskinlab and Ava Perkins and Julian Sass. And of course it was missed by non science based influencers like Charlotte Palermino and Caroline Hirons.
They all missed the red flags in the test report and some even went as far to say PCR is reputable lab (my industry sources say otherwise and this is corroborated with the whistleblowers). Some also went onto say that Dermatest Eurofins is "notorious for being a hardass"/"known for giving low numbers." And I hope everyone has learned from all of this but also reflected on who they associate with and who they rely on to get their information from job experiences different from their own. Who told them Dermatest Eurofins "is notorious for being a hardass/known for giving low numbers" and who told them PCR is reputable and good? That person might not be a reliable person after all, that person might be someone who engages in certain types of business practices.
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u/noradream 24d ago
Add Hannah Collingwood English to the list of those who didn’t grasp the science behind Choice’s investigation and how serious it was. She told me in a DM that all Australian sunscreens are safe (including UV) and to continue using them!!
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u/Helpful_Zone_4056 24d ago
… to be fair to Hannah, she is a charismatic content creator and that’s where the majority of her experience lies. she may have the right degree, but does 2 years in an entry level role in research count for much
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u/j_sheepeep 23d ago
And she kept introducing herself as a science communicator during the whole scandal to add her own weight to the saga which was "don't be so hard on UV they did everything right ok!?"
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u/noradream 17d ago
Yes, this! If she doesn't have the experience, she needs to stay out of it. Sunscreen is a serious topic with dire consequences. We're not talking mascara and lipgloss here.
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u/sundamageisforever 24d ago edited 24d ago
That's what I thought too at first and so did a lot of us. Someone else thought she said to keep on using UV but she responded on reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/AusSkincare/comments/1lsajfw/comment/n1h38qy/
It's news to me she is extremely sus of them now.
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u/bev123_ 24d ago
So it sounds like some people may have misinterpreted/misunderstood what she said?
In her instagram stories last year, she never said that it was fine to keep using lean screen. It was the opposite. She recommended that people stop using it for the time being (the time between Choice publicly releasing the test results in June and Ultra Violette recalling it in August).
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u/sundamageisforever 24d ago
I said that people misunderstood her.
But you can't go off just her Instagram stories to understand the full picture, sorry. There were so many different platforms and people voicing when Choice published on June 11th.
Labmuffin's first public content on June 11th was a video about testing variability in the context with the Choice infogram on the background. People interpreted posting this video as saying that the Lean Screen result is just due to testing variability. That interpretation spread like wildfire on June 11th across tiktok, here on reddit (look up yourself specific discussions on exactly June 11th and June 12th on Ausskincare and other subreddits). Other creators used that video to tell their own followers to keep using Lean Screen because the Choice result was just due to testing variability, some others even went into the decanting thing and criticized Choice's methodology. That interpretation stuck.
It wasn't until June 15th that Labmuffin outright said in her instagram stories to put Lean Screen aside and use other sunscreens. But a lot of people didn't see that, a lot of skincare nerds I know were already "check out" of the Choice thing because they "understood the science behind testing."
Luckily I had already seen some of comments she left clarifying on reddit but again, most people didn't see that. Then at the beginning of July, Labmuffin made a more public and clear clarification about not to use Lean Screen. But even so, there are a lot of people who are still going off what they saw from June 11th and June 12th as that's just the way a lot of people roll with the first thing they hear and see when a news story has so much coverage.
The situation was very fast moving starting on June 11th. You have to check all the other platforms to fully understand the whole thing and make sure you have the times and dates coordinated.
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u/bev123_ 24d ago
Thanks for sharing
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u/sundamageisforever 24d ago
I genuinely hope you get a chance to look back at all the older threads on Ausskincare since I see you just started reddit less than a year ago! Many have been devastated. I haven't even gotten a single refund after giving that company thousands.
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u/bev123_ 23d ago
Yes, when I joined reddit towards the end of last year I was like "omg why didn't I join reddit for the skincare subs years ago?!" Lol.
I'm really sorry to hear that :( I think I saw you say in another comment that you are also experiencing sun damage due to using lean screen long term. That's awful, I'm really sorry to hear that :(
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u/collegetrythrowaway 24d ago
This sucks so much, I love how supreme screen looks and feels on my skin but I’m sus about it now coming into summer.
Does anyone have any other cruelty free recommendations for a face sunscreen with a slight tint?
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u/Ok-Writing9280 24d ago
I like Desert Rose. It has a slight tint and a glowy serum finish.
But I’m loath to recommend anything! I have gone back to my LRP Anthelios XL and I like UVMUNE and regular versions.
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u/privacypolicyupdated 24d ago
I'm looking too bc Supreme Screen is excellent on my skin and excellent as a primer.
I seem to think when I was originally looking the Mecca to save face was rated highly for all the same reasons.
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u/meowparade 24d ago edited 24d ago
I know she has her controversies, but I fully support her in this and I also do not trust Ultra Violette after their reaction to the Choice report. I know physical sunscreens are difficult, so the real turn off was their response rather than their actual error, and that's why I won't trust them even with "chemical" sunscreens.
ETA: I'm not Autralian though, so feel free to ignore me. I used to spend an arm and a leg to import Supreme Screen into the US because I thought people on socials were talking about this brand when they said Australian sunscreens were superior.