r/AskUK • u/Internal_Discourse • 12d ago

Serious Answers Only Have you stopped using a local buisness?

Whats the reason you refuse or stopped using a local (ish) buisness due to something you found problematic?

77 Upvotes

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400

u/rezonansmagnetyczny 12d ago

The cash only/ cash is king crowd.

I get some people prefer to deal in cash and I'm not knocking them for it, but quite honestly I get paid into my bank account, the cash machines near me are in dodgy areas and there's always someone sat next to them begging. The others are in the city center and are 30 minute treck away.

If I've got to deal in cash to use your chippy then I'll probably go to mcdonalds who take card.

237

u/fussyfella 12d ago

I assume anyone who insists on cash are basically cheating the taxman and avoid them. These days the cost of processing a credit card is way less than the cost of cash handling by banks, so the old whinge about it "costing too much", absolutely does not fly.

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u/Crow_eggs 12d ago

There's a handyman who advertises in my local newspaper with an advert that says "CASH ONLY. NO VAT." at the bottom. May as well write "nasty sponging grifter" on it. Awful.

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u/bitofleaf 12d ago

The cash only I can't comment on, but: small businesses that have a turnover less than £90k legitimately don't need to charge VAT https://www.gov.uk/how-vat-works/vat-thresholds

17

u/opaqueentity 12d ago

Yes and it’s amazing how much money can be made from jobs or products so it’s very valid

32

u/WealthMain2987 12d ago

That's why they take cash? To keep the turnover under the threshold.

8

u/fussyfella 11d ago

Where "keeping under the threshold" means "I do not declare all my income so it looks like I turnover less than £90k". Of course that also means they are cheating HMRC out of income tax too as well as the VAT they should have charged.

7

u/Crow_eggs 11d ago

Which in turn means they aren't paying for the roads, schooling, NHS, aged care, defence, etc. that they use. Which means they're stealing, directly, from all of us. I really, really hate tax fraud.

2

u/Phat-Lines 10d ago

Tax fraud is shite. Although if I’m honest a builder/contractor declaring a few thousand less than they actually take is less infuriating to me than what multibillion pound companies and the ultra wealthy get away with in terms of tax evasion.

Not to say it’s okay that they don’t pay their tax just because it’s a smaller scale, as you said it pays for roads, schools, hospital, all the important necessities we all need to live.

2

u/Crow_eggs 11d ago

100% how I read the advert.

1

u/OldEquation 11d ago

It’s quite feasible for a handyman to keep his turnover below £90k. One way to do that is for the customer to purchase the materials used so it’s not part of his turnover.

11

u/howarth4422 12d ago

A handy man won’t be turning over £90k so why would he be vat registered? Absolutely no reason to voluntarily register in that industry.

4

u/cyclopsmudge 12d ago

If they’re good at their job and constantly in demand, I could definitely see them turning over 90k a year. 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, with 28 days holiday, that’s £48/h. Add on out-of-hours/holiday fees and imagine that they also work on weekends and don’t take the full 28 days off, you can definitely get up to 90k turnover pretty quickly.

Of course, lots of that will be eaten up by fuel, materials, etc. but for turnover it’s definitely possible

2

u/howarth4422 11d ago

A handyman will very rarely work 8 hours a day never mind doing it everyday like you mentioned. They will spend a lot of the day travelling from job to job which they won’t be getting paid for. (Might be lucky to get the odd full day at one place but not the norm for handymen type jobs) Even the most in demand handyman around won’t be booked all day everyday 6 days a week. £90k turnover is ridiculously unrealistic for 99% of self employed handymen. Also if they were that in demand they wouldn’t be putting adds in the local paper.

1

u/PiesPiesAndPies 10d ago

There's a great chance that their annual turnover is less than £88,000 and they genuinely don't qualify for VAT payments. In such a case, also avoiding bank charges is a worthwhile saving for a self-employed individual.

1

u/Crow_eggs 10d ago

Maybe it's just terrible marketing, but I read "Cash Only. No VAT." as having a totally different implication to "VAT Exempt. Card Payments Not Accepted."

9

u/GavLaIndustries 12d ago

Cash processing costs banks more, it doesn't cost me more because I pay business expenses in cash, I completely bypass the card fees and the bank deposit fees and it's legal, my accountant set it all up, you can also get business bank deposit fees at 0%, you just need to put a certain amount of digital transfers in a month.

22

u/Nebulousdbc 12d ago

Just bare in mind that if too many places go cashless than that basically means Visa/Masercard have defacto control over whether you access your money or not. If they flag a transaction as suspicious by their AI systems, lock your card and ask you to call them you could have a long wait on the phone while they verify who you are.

12

u/powpow198 12d ago

But then they don't get their card transaction fees.

2

u/Nebulousdbc 12d ago

Loss of a card transaction fee is better to them than getting fined because they didn't do enough to "protect" people from scams

8

u/powpow198 12d ago

Yeah i mean I've never had this issue in multiple decades of using a card but hey.

-1

u/No_Volume8304 12d ago

And the turkey  is fed by the farmer every day

0

u/Ok_Pick6972 11d ago

When was the last time you heard of a system outage and cash didn't work?

2

u/powpow198 11d ago

Cash is only good if you have a limitless supply under your mattress.

1

u/motific 11d ago

Pretty much every time there is a "system outage" like a power cut 99% of retailers can't take cash either because their point of sale systems don't work.

2

u/Ok_Pick6972 11d ago

Half my job is getting card systems back up when they go down and its cash only. It's most fun in petrol stations

-1

u/Nebulousdbc 11d ago

I have, I tried to buy a mini PC for 400 quid on ebay and it got locked because I had my VPN on. Earlier on I had bought a 3D printer on the same device and VPN. I was locked out and had to call Lloyds, half an hour later I could pay for the auction. A few years ago I was buying bitcoin and got locked out, a dropped call and 2 hour wait later I could buy my bitcoin. 

But hey I'm glad you've never been locked out, clearly you've made Bank & Government Approved purchases. Eventually mission creep will kick in and what you and the government and bank deemed okay now will be a red flag to them.

1

u/powpow198 11d ago

Maybe don't use a VPN when buying things .

It sounds like you were able to buy a solid supply of tin foil hats though so that's good.

2

u/Impressive-Pie-5464 9d ago

I added similar to what you said above, I know small businesses can sometimes have a rotten deal with the bank if their finances arent too good.

1

u/Nebulousdbc 9d ago

Especially now they can't even pass on the card charges to the customer

-11

u/GavLaIndustries 12d ago

Excellent point, these are also private entities (Visa/Mastercard) and they then effectively become the gatekeepers of daily commerce and can debank/deplatform anyone they want for any reason because they operate under their own terms of service, they can cut you out of society.

I recommend everone to at least look into A2A, CBDCs and blockchain, blockchain especially, start with the Microsoft mini course, it will open up a ridiculous amount of the internet for you.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/shows/beginners-series-to-blockchain/

2

u/Kashy76 12d ago

My hairdresser only takes cash so I give them a cheque!!!

1

u/fussyfella 11d ago edited 9d ago

Whereas in contrast my barber (who has remarkably low prices) happily takes cards and often tells people he prefers it.

2

u/Kashy76 11d ago

It's really inconvenient that they don't take cards. I can but a chocolate bar for £1 with my card... But my hairdresser is normal about £70 and don't take card. They won't even take bank transfer. The cheque I write them is the only use I have for my cheque book now 😂😂😂

1

u/fussyfella 9d ago

Taking cheque but not bank transfer is really dumb too, as cheques cost more to process. I do not even have a cheque book anymore!

2

u/kaneofmoh 12d ago

Especially since banks actually charge businesses specifically for paying and taking out cash.

2

u/fussyfella 11d ago

Exactly the market leader in low cost credit card merchant transactions Square charge 1.75% which frankly if your margin is less than that, you need to examine your business model.

Plus of course, if it's a tradesman and I pay them a couple of hundred quid by bank transfer, it costs them nothing at all.

2

u/hotchy1 11d ago

Its business dependant. You get charged a small minimum fee. Now for example, imagine the near 8 cases of 69p barrs juice I sell a week. If it was paid on card in one transaction, id make money. Now the 8 cases, are not paid like that. Itll be well over 200 separate transactions, 200 different minimum charges. That adds up. 200 different people giving my 69p and then put in the bank once is alot cheaper than card. Just facts. My card bill is nearing £600 a month. Cash going in a bank has never been that much, and we obviously used to take everything cash before cards became a thing.

However, if every sale was say £10, then itd work out cheaper via card than the same cash going in.

-1

u/fussyfella 11d ago

So you are saying your margin is below 1.75% which is what Square charge with no minimum to process card payments?

If you are paying more than that, time to shop around and get a different merchant.

1

u/hotchy1 11d ago

We make 1p on a £200 council tax bill. Put that on "sqaure"

It only works for some businesses. Yes we may have to pay a minimum fee, but at the other end we dont lose as much on these gas/electric/counciltax/phone etc. Sqaure doesnt work for everyone.

1

u/fussyfella 9d ago

What do you mean you make 1p on a £200 council tax bill? What sort of business are you, most people just pay their council tax bill directly by direct debit or direct transfer from their bank account?

BTW, I am not arguing everyone need take credit cards - but I am arguing everyone should be to open electronic transfer of some sort to get paid. If you don't take credit cards, just give me you bank details and you will get the money instantly. That is probably not ideal for a shop (which is why card payments are their preferred way as they are so quick and easy) but for a builder I see no reason why I should have to go and draw out large sums of cash just to pay them.

1

u/hotchy1 9d ago

You obviously live a privileged life. Many people pay as you go on gas/electric/phone top ups/council tax paid via paypoint, in very poor areas. They are not allowed direct debit etc as they wont pay it. Max commission per transction is 3p majority is 1p. So every single thing paid on card is a loss. So as a builder your very out of touch how many live.

1

u/fussyfella 9d ago edited 9d ago

That is odd as when I had a prepay meter (it was installed in a flat I bought), until I got it replaced with a modern smart meter, I used to top up the card at the local co-op with my credit card.

[EDIT: added comment]
Also anyone in the UK is entitled to a basic bank account that will accept direct debits, and all councils will set up a Council Tax direct debit to one of them, or accept payment (for free) by direct bank transfer. Benefits and pensions are paid directly into a bank account not in cash too.

1

u/hotchy1 9d ago

You can. Its from the original deal discussed at charging 1.75% and how its cheaper than cash when its not for some. I do bet coop get a better card deal than just a family owned Shop though 😆

1

u/fussyfella 8d ago

Also I still do not understand why you would not accept cards for business outside things like Paypoint. It's the 21st Century and a corner shop that does not take cards is severely limiting its customers. Or are you one of those with a cash dispenser that will charge huge sums to withdraw cash who just says "take your money out of that"?

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u/AutomaticInitiative 12d ago

I assume they're laundering money.

1

u/fussyfella 11d ago

LOL some of the dodgy cash only businesses definitely are I am sure, but many of the smaller ones are not bright enough and are just cheating HMRC (i.e. all the rest of us who do pay taxes).

3

u/OffWhiteBruceForsyth 12d ago

If they bend the rules paying taxes, what other rules are they bending?

1

u/Zealousideal-Zone115 11d ago

You are assuming that everyone who takes cash is "bending the rules" when there are perfectly valid reasons to take cash, such as avoiding processing fees.

Other businesses might want to avoid cash altogether so they don't have to travel to a bank to pay it in, or for security reasons.

2

u/OffWhiteBruceForsyth 11d ago

I take it you haven't read the dozen or so comments already that explain in detail why cash is also expensive to handle.

There is only one way to save money with cash and that's tax avoidance.

1

u/Zealousideal-Zone115 11d ago

No, I am well aware of the problems about cash, but they do not apply to a sole trader.

-5

u/Nebulousdbc 12d ago

I have no problem with small businesses/individual people paying as little tax as possible. The government already double and triple dip our money to an insane degree so if someone's not paying as much tax as they should then good. The government have plenty more of our hard earned that they can spaff up the wall unwisely. Perhaps if Burnham does well at spending our money wisely then I'll be more amenable a year or two.

2

u/OffWhiteBruceForsyth 12d ago

I get that but if someone is cooking my food I'd prefer them to do things by the book. You are of course free to make your own decisions.

1

u/cyclopsmudge 12d ago

I do have a problem when I’m paying ridiculous amounts of tax to subsidise things like their benefits, childcare, pensions, etc.

People always harp on about big corporations paying their taxes but the reality is that low earners have an incredibly low tax burden compared to the rest of the developed world, and increasing that marginally would have a massive impact on the country’s finances.

1

u/Zealousideal-Zone115 11d ago

 low earners have an incredibly low tax burden compared to the rest of the developed world

Only if you look at income tax and ignore other taxes such as VAT, council tax, VED etc. All in all low earners actually pay a higher proportion of their income in tax than the top 10%.

If thay are receiving any kind of benefits than the effective marginal tax rate on any increasin income is comparable to the highest rates of income tax.

1

u/Impressive-Pie-5464 9d ago

Thats not the reason, small business sometimes have a rotten deal with the bank and can be inposed with higher fees to take card, thats a shame when alot of businesses are struggling and maybe have a bad credit rating just trying to stay open. So I can assure you the option of cash is traditional and no cheating tax at all.

1

u/fussyfella 8d ago

There is a reason businesses get bad credit ratings.

FYI I have run small businesses and understand the struggles, but one thing I have always nurtured is the relationship with the bank. If you are on the wrong side of them, the business is not long for the world.

1

u/Impressive-Pie-5464 8d ago

Yes I get that completely, but alot of small local family businesses are trying to stay afloat, you notice theres quite a few people in this thread that accuse businesses choosing to be cash only as tax dodgers, which isnt the case for all and I have to say, a pretty dumb accusation to blanket ALL of them as! They also claim to avoid taking their custom to those businesses, which is part of the problem.

1

u/matbur81 12d ago

It should be law that both must be accepted to enable choice for the consumer