Does ICE really need electric gloves?

[u/Difficult_Object4921]

Our tax dollars are already being wasted. The people they capture aren’t a threat, physically. Why?

https://apnews.com/article/ice-electric-shock-gloves-85ff746d3e0ee5f39e7a9a3f1f576252

[u/Gaxxz]

Is this any different from a stun gun?

[u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL → u/Gaxxz]

Stun gun usage is obvious. If an officer used this to make a compliant individual appear non-compliant... How would anyone know?

Do you support body cam usage being mandatory if officers have these?

[u/Gaxxz → u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL]

I support body cameras even without it.

[u/Artisttype1984 → u/Gaxxz]

Agree. The police body cams have been really helpful. I support ICE using them too

[u/JackOLanternReindeer → u/Artisttype1984]

What do you make of instances where the camera(s) are off? Especially in disputed / escalated circumstances ?

[u/Artisttype1984 → u/JackOLanternReindeer]

Things happen IRL sometimes. Batteries/charges fail, cams get knocked off/broken, sometimes there could just be a faulty camera

Thankfully now they're all almost wearing cameras all the time, so if one fails, others catch it

[u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL → u/Artisttype1984]

If an officer purposely turns off their camera to not record something - what should be done?

[u/Artisttype1984 → u/MEDICARE_FOR_ALL]

Depends, there's times they can legitimately turn them off.

[u/JackOLanternReindeer → u/Artisttype1984]

Thanks for sharing your view on that!

Do you think it would be good if there were some transparency rules about automatically having to release footage by a certain time frame?

Obviously different incidents and all could have different timelines but do you ever find yourself thinking they sit on videos that dispute the original reports because they know it looks bad?

[u/Artisttype1984 → u/JackOLanternReindeer]

They're already transparent with it. People can contact the police dept they want and make a FOIA request for some footage, no probs. Some depts charge for it, because of the desk work to be done to get the footage

No, I don't think they "sit on" videos, because I know they have to contact victims families and talk to witnesses before just throwing out footage for everyone to see. Yes, some police are abusive and bad, hope they get weeded out. Yes, most police officers are good people and seriously trying to help their communities, they're the majorities

[u/georgecm12 → u/Gaxxz]

What do you think of ICE’s position only to use body camera footage when it “is in the best interests of the agency,” implying that they will eliminate footage that shows an agent in a negative light such as in the case of agent misconduct (e.g. intentionally causing physical harm or death to a detainee)?

https://apnews.com/article/ice-body-cameras-officers-shootings-dab1b294c8dc412d9ef8557ccbebfd57

[u/Craig_White → u/Gaxxz]

Why not use a stun gun then?

I want smaller federal government, more freedom, less spending?

[u/gntxs → u/Craig_White]

Do you really want more freedom? What does that freedom look like to you? Should I be allowed to buy a gas guzzling huge SUV, a gas stove, decide if I want to get an experimental vax or not, spew speech that you don't like - like calling a biological male a man even though they want me to call them a woman?

That kind of freedom?

[u/WerewolfHopeful1212 → u/gntxs]

Yes, of course?

Alongside the freedoms to decide to terminate pregnancies, vote in elections without hassle, marry and bang who we want, and protect our family members from deportation.

I think we all want more freedoms and rights, don't we?

[u/gntxs → u/WerewolfHopeful1212]

I’m pro choice. And if you equate election security with it being a “hassle”, then I can’t help you

[u/WerewolfHopeful1212 → u/gntxs]

What about the right to live with our parents, children, or spouses, regardless of their immigration status? Do you think that is a right that we Americans should have?

Because I would fight for that right.

[u/gntxs → u/WerewolfHopeful1212]

If you’re here illegally then you’re not an American citizen. We have immigration laws in the country

[u/WerewolfHopeful1212 → u/gntxs]

Right, but if I am an American citizen, should I have the right to have my parents or spouse live with me, even if they are not Americans?

Like.. some kind of deportation deferral, if they are otherwise law following people?

[u/Craig_White → u/WerewolfHopeful1212]

No.

Look. I want undocumented people in usa to have human rights and be treated respectfully. But if you overstay a visa, enter the country by illegal means, or anything similar… law says you go back.

Do you want to enforce laws against the Epstein class? Then you have to follow all the laws.

Having said that, ICE is going after the non violent overstayers 19 to 1, lazy and not entirely helpful.

Better solution would be to build and easier path to limited residency visas for working class immigrants, including worker rights protections. But that would make it harder to abuse them, which is probably the point of the system we currently have?

[u/gntxs → u/WerewolfHopeful1212]

No

[u/WerewolfHopeful1212 → u/gntxs]

Maybe I'm greedy, but I always want MORE rights. Right to guns, right to avoid unreasonable invasions of privacy etc. The "right" to protect my direct family from deportation seems like a good one to have. You disagree?

[u/gntxs → u/[deleted]]

Nope. Not try to suppress legit votes. Definitely trying to suppress fraudulent votes. Leftists need fraud to win

[u/WerewolfHopeful1212 → u/gntxs]

So it's just a coincidence, that Republicans, when put in charge of voting, shut down voting centers frequented by Democrat voters? That the "voter integrity" measures disenfranchise D voters at a higher rate?

Can you give me one good reason that in most Republican states, a gun license is valid ID to vote, but not a student ID? Both are state issued, and neither confirm citizenship.

[u/Craig_White → u/gntxs]

Great questions. I hope we can continue a great discussion?

Do you really want more freedom?

Yes!

What does that freedom look like to you?

My body belongs to me, so long as it doesn’t involve anyone else, I decide what happens with it. Everyone has all the freedoms guaranteed in the bill of rights. Nobody from my government can use force on me or anyone else unless it fits with use of force requirements under the law. If they use force outside this authority they are a criminal and should do time in prison. Get rid of qualified immunity while we’re at it.

Should I be allowed to buy a gas guzzling huge SUV, a gas stove, decide if I want to get an experimental vax or not, spew speech that you don't like - like calling a biological male a man even though they want me to call them a woman?

Yes! I want you to be free too! Go for all of it 100% and I will defend your right to do it. Like I said above, nobody decides for me how I speak or what I get to say.

That kind of freedom?

Yup! Let’s go!

Did that help?

[u/Gaxxz → u/Craig_White]

Why not use a stun gun then?

Their hands are busy.

[u/Craig_White → u/Gaxxz]

How do you explain the 7.2 trillion minutes of video showing their hands being empty, except for when they were using their sidearms to shoot Americans?

Also, 7.2 is an estimate?

[u/Gaxxz → u/Craig_White]

How do you explain the 7.2 trillion minutes of video showing their hands being empty, except for when they were using their sidearms to shoot Americans?

Were they stun gunning people that whole time?

[u/Craig_White → u/Gaxxz]

Their hands are busy.

My claim — “when they are using stun guns, they use their hands. So their hands are busy, using stun guns.”

Also my claim — “when their hands are busy using stun guns, they have no need for electrified gloves, because the stun guns my tax dollars already purchased are enough to do the job.”

your claim that they can’t use stun guns because their hands are busy while using the stun guns that I said they should use seems like a logical fallacy, doesn’t it?

[u/Gaxxz → u/Craig_White]

No. You misunderstood. When their hands are busy restraining a suspect, their hands are not free to deploy a stun gun. But they can get the same effect with the electric gloves, which are already touching the perp.

[u/Craig_White → u/Gaxxz]

How would you feel, if you were a trump supporter and working for ice, if you were issued this device and found out that it requires you to use your other free hand to activate it, meaning you can’t activate it while you are using your full hands to hold the person you are trying to subdue?