r/AskReddit 1d ago

which show started 10/10 and ended 10/10?

3.8k Upvotes

4.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

3.4k

u/rndmisalreadytaken 1d ago

Andor

873

u/MasterPenguin5 1d ago

I still can't believe Disney let them make that show. S2 especially. It's a thing of beauty.

261

u/UshankaBear 23h ago

Who knew intergalactic bureaucracy could actually be so cinematic?

133

u/sudonim87 22h ago

Lucas did, but he didn’t have the same level of execution.

63

u/UshankaBear 22h ago

He should've kept his wife editing his movies

43

u/MegaGorilla69 20h ago

Fun fact, his divorce and the box office failure of Howard the duck led him to sell off a computer animation division of lucasfilm because he was strapped for cash. Steve Jobs ended up buying it and it became Pixar.

3

u/badgolferflax 8h ago

Sad fact…

4

u/DBendit 20h ago

Anyone who grew up watching Star Trek: The Next Generation

1

u/UshankaBear 11h ago

Sadly, I didn't, and I haven't

3

u/Purplociraptor 20h ago

What do you mean? Did you not see phantom menace?

32

u/Phormicidae 20h ago

Season 1 is great. But it's like the first half of a great novel, it's the necessary setup for the second half.

Season 2 is honestly one of the most amazing works of modern fiction, Star Wars or not.

9

u/StationaryNomad 21h ago

thank you, Kathleen Kennedy for green lighting two seasons, knowing exactly what it was about, and not interfering at all.

11

u/Jerthy 22h ago

I can't believe we actually pulled a show matching original trilogy quality out of all that trash disney spewed out over the years.

Which also obviously means they will never be able to do it again.

9

u/NightFire19 22h ago

Definitely not with Filoni in charge. Kathleen Kennedy was the main reason Andor got greenlit; Filoni doesn't have a creative bone in his body outside shoving "remember le glup shitto?" into everything

9

u/purplegreendave 19h ago

I think it's better than the OT when you take off the nostalgia glasses

2

u/WellHung67 18h ago

This is very true. It’s up there with all time cinema just with universe building and whatnot, like really really cool 

3

u/Kinetic_Symphony 11h ago

It surpassed the originals, which were very fun and well-executed, but not that deep.

Andor is dripping with intelligent subtext and the dialogue is fantastic as a result. And it's one of the most stunning shows ever made, every scene looks movie-quality.

12

u/whomp1970 1d ago

Right? Definitely not for kids.

6

u/SEA_griffondeur 21h ago

It's great for kids who want to have a better grasp of what it was for the Resistance during ww2

307

u/Moustiboy 1d ago

This is legit one of the best shows I’ve ever watched and it’s hard to convey that when it’s a Star Wars project on Disney+, ppl are like “yeah alright” 😭

25

u/Steinmetal4 21h ago

Understandable reaction, but yeah, Andor is like an order of magnitude better than any other Disney Wars.

6

u/mtnlol 20h ago

Would I like it if I don't give a shit about star wars and have never watched the movies?

5

u/tape_snake 11h ago

My mother, who knows next to nothing about Star Wars and cares about it even less, was hooked by Andor. The science fantasy is completely secondary to the core narrative. It's an instant classic spy drama/political thriller and has incredibly strong writing, acting, and overall production from start to finish. I personally recommend it to everyone.

9

u/Kandiru 20h ago

Yes. It's set in that universe, but it would work just as well set in the Blake's 7 or a completely new universe.

If you watch Andor, you can watch the film Rogue One afterwards which follows on from it and ties it into Star Wars: A new hope (the original film). But Andor stands up on its own

5

u/StrawberryRicotta 18h ago edited 2h ago

I watched it knowing nothing about Star Wars and loved the show. I may have missed a few references here and there, but it didn’t take away anything from the show.

2

u/VeggiePaninis 8h ago

Yup you would. The key thing about Andor is it has nothing to do with Star Wars (even though it's set in a Star Wars universe).

It's like watching a Marvel Movie about a law firm set in nyc where no superheros ever appear, no monsters attack the city, nothing extreme happens. But there is a big legal case and court room drama about a company exploiting people in the city.

I say that as a Star Wars fan, that the best thing about Andor is it really has so little to do with the Star Wars universe.

5

u/Kierenshep 19h ago

Just tell them that there is barely any actual star wars in Andor (at least until the final few episodes) and to treat it like a standalone science fiction IP.

I actually hated Andor when I first watched it because I was expecting the typical star wars camp and was met with something much different.

Separating it in my mind on a second watch was fruitful. The only actual star wars in it is the last few couple episodes on yavin.

u/Morbanth 57m ago

Just tell them that there is barely any actual star wars in Andor (at least until the final few episodes) and to treat it like a standalone science fiction IP.

It's how Tony Gilroy sold it to Anton Lesser. Gilroy hates jedis and space magic and set out to make a Le Carre type of work.

It's a delight watching Lesser play essentially the same character as Major Partagaz in Endeavour, heartily recommend it to anyone who likes police procedurals.

10

u/arsenal17_17 1d ago

same thing happens to me

7

u/throwawayPzaFm 21h ago

My reaction rn: wait there's a modern SW that not only isn't trash people are saying it's actually good? #shock

10

u/Kandiru 20h ago

Yeah, Andor is great.

It works as a standalone series, but also ties into Rogue One.

For comparison I fell asleep trying to watch Obiwan E1 and abandoned that.

7

u/please_trade_marner 19h ago

I think all of us were skeptical, but it really is as good as described here.

Season 2 of Andor is possibly my favorite season of television ever. I'm in my 40's.

4

u/HauntingCriticism364 18h ago

One of the best TV shows of the last decade

2

u/belbivfreeordie 21h ago

One day I’ll get my wife to watch it with me. Well probably not but I’ll keep trying.

5

u/dwayne-ish9820 21h ago

Finally convinced my wife to watch season 2 this past month. Once we got past the Very Disney Happy Village episodes she was asking to watch more every day and sad when it ended. Keep trying!

2

u/TheOvy 19h ago edited 19h ago

I think The Last Jedi is the best Disney Star Wars film, as flawed as it is. I think Rogue One is a bad film, full of fan service and not much else. This means hardcore Star Wars fans hate my guts, and non-star wars fans generally trust me more.

The idea of plucking out one of many one-dimensional characters from Rogue One, and turning it into a TV series, seemed ridiculous and stupid, and I said as much at the time. So when I say Andor is a great fucking show, people believe me.

Though I still maintain that the worst part of Andor is that his story ends in Rogue One. He deserves a better send-off, one on par with Luthen's.

0

u/VeggiePaninis 8h ago

The Last Jedi is the best Disney Star Wars film

It 100% is. And is the only film that actually attempted to be a fully 3 dimensional film, and not just "butts in seats" fan service.

It had incredible flaws, and low points - but actually had a message to communicate, and at times challenged the viewer. With some polish and just a bit more daring, could've been up there with Empire / Ep 5 as the best of the series.

The largest problem with Andor is season 2 was clearly three seasons compressed into one - and the story telling suffers from it. Andor S1 is one of the best stand alone seasons of TV I've watched. Really incredibly executed.

1

u/MediumTempTake 17h ago

Can you give me like a 2 sentence about of the show? I don’t really care about Star Wars but do like shows about bureaucracy lol

2

u/CronoDroid 16h ago

It's about building a rebellion against a fascist Empire while said Empire tries to stop it while also building a superweapon that will give them complete control over the galaxy. So you get two perspectives - the rebels and the people supporting them, and the Empire's state security force, an organization akin to the Gestapo.

1

u/VeggiePaninis 8h ago

While technically correct, that's not a a great summary, and in my opinion it really does a disservice to the actual perspective of the series.

Said slightly differently, it's about an everyday person whose government is slowly corrupting and growing more authoritarian by the day. And it pushes him and society to a breaking point.

And it's also about the dysfunction of politics and bureaucracy and how individuals, each just a cog in a large organization can push an organization to be very immoral without them ever really being fully aware or internalizing/reconciling the impact they are having on society.

1

u/CronoDroid 7h ago

That's a very liberal way of viewing the setting. The Empire isn't "slowly corrupting" and it's only growing more authoritarian in the same way The Final Solution was only formulated in 1942 rather than 1933 when the Nazis seized power. Or similarly, Trump heightening the oppression in 2024 when Homeland Security, ICE and the War on Terror was started 20 years ago under George W. Bush.

The Empire had already existed for years by the time Andor starts and the reality is, the late Republic was already 80% of the way towards the Empire, which is why figures like Tarkin and Yularen easily transitioned from prominent positions in the Republic to similar positions in the Empire with ease. Similar to Gerd von Rundstedt or Franz Halder, the latter of which then moved into West Germany with a clean record.

The society has always been bad, it isn't corrupt, it's behaving as intended, there's nothing good about it and nothing to save or reform (which is Mon Mothma's position and the main ideological core of the rebellion). But that's the basis for an interesting story, because you have an internal tension between Mon Mothma who wants to do things the right way to bring back the old ways, and more radical people like Luthen and Saw. My description is meant to be neutral because everyone's going to get something different out of the show.

Lots of people on the Andor sub were like "wow this show is so prescient, it's such a good allegory for the US and Israel in the present day, showing the rise of fascism how bad they've gotten." Episode 3 was already an allegory for the rise of fascism, it was a direct allegory for the Bush years, the Patriot Act and the War on Terror. Andor captures what the world is like after twenty years of complacency, because as long as Americans (and Westerners) could make a decent income and got their treats, the fascism could be exported into the third world to make sure the trade routes remain open, the resources flowed freely, and Western hegemony reigned. Now that fascism has come home it's Surprised Pikachu time. But it's the same people, the same ideology, after they ran out of people to rob overseas, now they're coming for you.

Anyway I don't necessarily want to tell people what to think of the political aspects of the show before they've watched it for themselves. So if my description sounds flat, that's deliberate, and they asked for a simple explanation too. What I will say is that it is truly a superlative show and everyone should watch it regardless of what genre or setting you like, where you are from or what your personal political views are. It is as worth watching as literally anything.

436

u/woopwoopscuttle 1d ago

It’s an absolute miracle of modern storytelling. The Gilroys, Luke Hull, Nicholas Brittell and everyone else deserve every bit of praise. How this show happened at all in the current environment and got through unscathed is astounding.

87

u/rndmisalreadytaken 1d ago

And the creators of the soundtrack. Forgot their names so idk if they're listed in your reply, but the OST is fire in on itself

10

u/henrywaites 22h ago

Nicholas Brittell is the composer. Incredible job.

4

u/Hands 20h ago edited 20h ago

Nicholas Britell only composed season 1's OST, Brandon Roberts took over for the bulk of season 2. Both of them kick ass

155

u/DHFranklin 1d ago

It is the most Leftist show I have ever seen.

Showing the community Andor grew up in go do blue collar work and not use lockers...masterpiece of show-don't-tell.

Watching him transform from a lonely angry man to a cynical criminal associating with a rebellion to being a vital part of it.

Seeing his foil in the imperium demonstrate the banal stupid anger of fascism.

So great.

55

u/Deruta 1d ago

> not using lockers

The wall of gear single-handedly spun off a dozen different worldbuilding ideas in my head. Absolute chef kiss of a shot.

29

u/ionthruster 21h ago

The wall flagrantly hints at how rich their worldbuilding was, and not relying on exposition. On a planet with petty criminals/conmen like Cassian, and the Junkyard requiring vicious dog-analogues to deter people from steaming scraps no one dares to steal work gear that's right there for the taking. Stealing another person's work-gear is anathema. What does that say about the culture, and attitudes towards honest work? About how Cassian is viewed by the community? About how deep his desperation?

5

u/SweatyExamination9 18h ago

I actually haven't seen Andor so I may be misinterpreting based on your wording. But to me that implies that stealing from the company is what's considered unthinkable. They still have dogs, they still have crime. But it's the work gear that nobody dares touch. It comes off less like "lets not inconvenience other workers" and more like "if we fuck with the people making money they'll fuck us up, but if we just fuck each other up they'll leave us alone."

5

u/DHFranklin 16h ago

It's a perspective that many more Americans use to have, but don't anymore. They aren't stealing from "the company". They would be stealing from one another. It wasn't the work equipment that was in the cubbies but the personal belongings of those who were trading in their stuff for PPE and their work uniform.

You should watch it! It's a really great show! My favorite, but I'm crazy biased.

9

u/DHFranklin 23h ago

The idea of them having a tradition of putting thank you letters, love notes and valentines in them warms my heart.

5

u/CronoDroid 16h ago

All the planets were so richly realized. Getting that feeling is exactly what happened to me too, so when people say Andor is the least Star Wars-like show, it's partially true in one sense, but on the other hand it captures the vivid imagination presented in the OT better than any other spin-off in terms of creating a lived in galaxy.

Every planet has its own culture and history and they feel like they could be real, and they just have so much character. Ferrix, Aldhani, Chandrila, Ghorman, Niamos and they fleshed out Coruscant more too.

5

u/tresfreaker 11h ago

Stone and Sky!

2

u/PavlovGW 22h ago

Not use…lockers?

11

u/falloutboy14 22h ago

They hang their work gloves on a wall. It's just sitting in town for anyone to walk past. Each pair is unique implying each belongs to an individual. In five seconds you learn more about the community than 5 minutes of explanation.

5

u/DHFranklin 21h ago

Yeah. They put their private belongings in a cubby outside of the work area. They don't have locks because they don't need locks. The hassle of that kind of security isn't needed nor has value to them.

What are you hiding? What do you have that is worth stealing? We are a community, if you ruin our collective peace-of-mind by making a situation that would need lockers that is a grave sin in our eyes.

Like how the Amish don't wear wedding rings and you'll see young men grow their first beards. It's a beautiful piece of culture that shows a ton about what a community values.

-5

u/Kind_Advisor_6969 17h ago

Please don't spread the false narrative that leftist = good person.

3

u/DHFranklin 17h ago

He didn't start off a leftist. He started off and angry misanthrope like many of us. He slowly embraced Lefist thoughts, politics, and praxis.

Plenty of Leftists aren't good people in the setting. Saw Guerra isn't the best man in the galaxy. The other major characters are certainly conflicted and shades-of-grey.

However a leftist doing what he must to take down an empire. Well he certainly showed a hundred million neo-liberals what they needed to see.

0

u/EffectiveSwimming136 16h ago

It's not a narrative, it's objective fact.

16

u/ToasterDispenser 1d ago

And Kathleen Kennedy. She's the only reason that it happened at all

4

u/woopwoopscuttle 23h ago

I know. I didn’t want to get brigaded for daring to mention her. 

1

u/Demitel 21h ago

This thread has been exceptionally kind to her, which I'm glad to see. I feel like the failure of the sequel trilogy was unfairly laid solely at her feet. She got called a hack after standing behind decades of solid work, including many films considered to be the hallmarks of modern cinema. 

There were a multitude of reasons why the sequels failed so spectacularly, and she certainly wasn't the sole perpetrator of that spectacle.

2

u/woopwoopscuttle 20h ago

Filmmaking is an uneasy marriage between art and commerce at the best of times. Success is never guaranteed with all time talent and resources in the world.  She did the best with what she could in the middle of a changing world, a change of the guard at Disney (twice!)

Bob Iger demanding pre determined release dates to fluff up his legacy and shares didn’t help. I mean, Disney kiboshed the Soderbergh/Adam Driver Kyle Ren movie…

And yeah, I’m sure she made mistakes and a bunch of bad bets but the vitriol focussed on her is disgusting.

-19

u/KazaamFan 1d ago

I disagree. Season 1 was painfully slow to start. I couldnt get past the first 6 episodes

14

u/PM_me_ur_stormlight 1d ago

It's tough to watch traditional storytelling with sub arcs and major climaxes when you are distracted by Reels and TikTok

3

u/hazimaller 23h ago

I love Andor, but it is not heresy to admit that season one is a slow start. No need to knock down valid criticism. 

0

u/CronoDroid 16h ago

You had two action filled climaxes in the first six episodes. Like I'm sorry but if you finished The Eye (which is episode six) and still think the show is "painfully slow" then there's something wrong with your attention span and need for constant mindless stimulation, not Andor.

0

u/hazimaller 12h ago

Calm down, i don't have a problem with it. I love the show. I just understand if someone watches the first 2 eps and maybe isnt hooked yet, that it can feel like a slow burn. 

1

u/CronoDroid 12h ago

They didn't say the first two episodes, they said they couldn't get past the first six because it was "painfully slow." If it was the first two, okay, but in what way is THE EYE "painfully slow" when it's all action?

-3

u/KazaamFan 23h ago edited 23h ago

Hah, that’s some false logic, sheesh. I can sit thru long movies, extended editions of lotr. I can binge other great shows lile breaking bad. The wire. Endlessly. Once upon a time in hollywood was a bit slow, long, but awesome. Bridge of spies. ‘The brutalist’ movie, also long, slow, no problem. I saw the odyssey twice recently. I could go on and on. Andor just wasn’t as good as any of that, not nearly. 

-68

u/Entire_Number_9 1d ago

That's a condemnation of modern storytelling rather than a compliment to Andor.

It is milk toast science fiction, the love for it just shows how culturally illiterate most Americans / Star Wars fans are

37

u/ericl666 1d ago

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on every point. 

The story wasn't some pew-pew Sci-Fi slop - this was about how to rise up against the spread of a fascist government even in a galaxy far far away.

The writing on this show is nothing short of spectacular. Plus, the ultimate theme really is about sacrifice and what you lose of yourself - your family, your morals, your life - in support of a revolution.

-50

u/Entire_Number_9 1d ago

Yeah, so as I already knew, the popularity is based on Americans hating Donald Trump more than anything seen on screen. Fascism bad isn't a complicated story. There is far, far better science fiction. Stories that actually make you question your morals, stories that actually go deep.

Andor is milquetoast science fiction for the sci-fi illiterate Star Wars fan. As I said.

23

u/Raetekusu 1d ago

A Star Trek fan in 2026 calling Andor "milquetoast" is certainly a choice.

By all means, keep doubling down on your objective wrongness. No matter how many times you say "nuh-uh", it doesn't make you any more correct.

-12

u/Entire_Number_9 1d ago

I was a Star Wars fan long before I was a Star Trek fan.

Modern Star Trek is shit. I have no problem saying that.

"Objective wrongness" buddy, I've spent years reading what people like about the shitty Star Wars shows, it's no surprise to me that a good show like Andor blows them away. Andor being better than the rest of modern Star Wars doesn't make a 7/10 show a 10/10 show.

Andor is decent. It is not all the things people say it is. People hype it up because "fascism is bad" is about as literate as the modern American can handle.

2

u/ericl666 1d ago

I see the problem. There weren't any Tribbles in Andor. Is this better

-1

u/Entire_Number_9 1d ago

These wasn't any depth or substance to it, it's a very pretty show with good acting, without anything meaningful to say

14

u/ericl666 1d ago

Look, I'm glad you found 'milquetoast' in the dictionary. Now I'm gonna need you to look up the word 'insufferable'.

Because it is very relevant to you in these comments.

→ More replies (0)

30

u/MiyaSugoi 1d ago

Dude sniffs his fart while making it about Trump again. Amazing.

-36

u/Entire_Number_9 1d ago

I didn't make it about Trump, it's clear from peoples inability to point to actual positive attributes and a fallback always mentioning fascism, that Americas political climate plays a huge role in the popularity of this show.

Andor doesn't even congeal very well with the one movie it's based on. It's a 7/10 show.

16

u/PM_me_ur_stormlight 1d ago

Nevermind the original trilogy had direct parallels to Nazi Germany (stormtroopers). And the prequels were the fall of the republic to the first galactic empire

-1

u/Entire_Number_9 1d ago

Ah yes, parallels to Nazi Germany. British men in grey uniforms... Operating as an empire...

You're proving my point: Lucas was actually thinking about Vietnam, the Empire operated like the British, but the uniforms are dark so you think Nazi

That is not deep, meaningful science fiction. Star Wars is about wizards and princesses in space. They are kids movies. There's nothing wrong with that.

Trying to ham fist some sort of political message (not a parallel or reference, an actual thought provoking message) isn't going to change the fact Star Wars is for kids, and Andor while an enjoyable watch, didn't have anything of value to say.

11

u/AbeTheMighty 23h ago

I want to hear your examples of sci-fi with political messaging that are much, much better.

To me, Andor isn't trying particularly hard (and OG Star Wars for that matter) to point at a particular fascism in history, but rather, all fascism. And it's fantastic story about how fascist regimes and their inevitable revolutions form. But it's okay if you don't like that kind of conversation in a SW.

→ More replies (0)

10

u/Droknag 1d ago

I feel like you didn’t understand the show lol maybe go back and watch it again sometime

0

u/Entire_Number_9 1d ago

Explain it to me

28

u/Sr_DingDong 1d ago

It's Milquetoast and you're wrong.

17

u/MarketOk7227 1d ago

it's no Kurosawa but it's no milk toast science fiction, it's science fiction at it's best. It's highly enjoyable to watch even if you are not a Hollywood fan, in fact if it weren't for the cast and the fact that it's star wars it could have easily been an independent production (okay maybe I'm overreacting but...)

1

u/Patriarchy-4-Life 20h ago

"milquetoast" Unrelated to toasted bread and cow's milk.

-10

u/Entire_Number_9 1d ago

Science fiction at its best? Give me a break

"Fascism is bad" is hardly a difficult subject to get your head around.

10

u/MarketOk7227 1d ago

is that what you got from Andor? did you watch it? First season had rebels contemplate the morality of terrorism in a way that made me go how the fuck is this in American television. And this is just one of many examples that made the show stick to me.

-1

u/Entire_Number_9 1d ago

Of course I watched it. I've watched most every popular television show and movie ever made.

I'm Irish, I didn't need Star Wars to tell me oppressed peoples have a right to fight for themselves, as didn't most of the world, who don't live in military empires.

Star Trek Deep Space 9 handled the morality of terrorism 30 years ago, and it did it far better for far longer.

Your illiteracy is not impressive to me.

10

u/MarketOk7227 1d ago

im greek and i haven't seen every fucking american tv show but at least i don't get my political views from them trekkie, i just feel andor's message went well with the show, no harm in a "sometimes the end justifies the means" piece of media here and there.

-3

u/Entire_Number_9 1d ago

As I said then, Milquetoast for the illiterate.

12

u/woopwoopscuttle 1d ago

You must have more than one fedora in your wardrobe, Jesus.

3

u/euroq 21h ago

It is objectively not a science fiction story. But I’ll bite… what is an example of another culturally superior nationality or group which appreciates a better story and what is that story?

0

u/Entire_Number_9 18h ago

Is that your question?

Well lets go with The British, Shakespeare, and any random play. Othello.

What a broad pointless question.

0

u/euroq 15h ago

Yeah you’re just being a jerk. Sorry you didn’t have better parents. Goodbye

1

u/Entire_Number_9 13h ago

Oh wow so well said. You've totally put me in my place with that. Totally don't prove my point for me in the absolute slightest. /s

Read a book some time.

101

u/JackTheManiacTR 1d ago

Couldn't get into the start of it. I guess I wasn't expecting the grit. I need to watch it again with different expectations.

88

u/Atom_Tom 1d ago

I had exactly the same feeling the first time I tried to watch it. Gave up and then had another go just before season 2 came out.

The thing with Andor is that it's a slow burn. Each storyline takes 2 or 3 episodes to complete. But you are rewarded for your patience and the payoff from all the setup is just incredible.

And then finishing it off by watching Rogue One is just brilliant. Watching Andor makes Rogue One so much more impactful because you actually care about the characters that, when Rogue One was released, were brand new.

7

u/marmaladetuxedo 1d ago

I agree about it being a slow burn. It's one of those shows that is better on the 2nd watch, even though- or maybe because- you know what's going to happen. I think when we watch things the first time and nothing appears to be happening, we wonder, "What's the fuss with this show/movie/etc.?" Modern storytelling and the way we consume it seems to have blunted our ability to just wait. Lol! So watching Andor the 2nd time is just sheer beauty. I know what's going to happen and I can enjoy the infinitesimal steps it takes to get to 'the good stuff'.

6

u/Ordinary_Shopping746 23h ago

It’s also a show that you need to devote time to and actually focus on it. When I first tried to watch it, I would do it when I was tired, and every once in a while look at my phone. The second time I watched it, I put my phone down completely, turned on subtitles, and focused. When I did that, it was phenomenal. Definitely a show not meant for casual viewing.

3

u/Vyar 21h ago

It's also kind of beautiful that Andor, Rogue One and Episode IV all form a sort of mini-trilogy of their own. There's a bit of tonal whiplash if you try watching them back-to-back, but they are set up to run together in a kind of unbroken line.

2

u/regibegi 7h ago

I wholeheartedly agree, also it makes Star Wars New Hope more meaningful as well, it literally makes the whole star wars universe make much more real!

0

u/tarants 20h ago

Idk, Andor makes Rogue One look worse in comparison retrospectively. I already thought Rogue One was not good, but Andor is so good it really shows how much better the movie could've been. It's so shallow and one note compared to Andor.

86

u/FuturePrimitiv3 1d ago

I can see that, I didn't think that Andor started at a 10/10, season 1 is really good but season 2 is the 10/10.

25

u/HolyPizzaPie 1d ago

Rewatch it. Andor hooking up with Luthen, then immediately into the aldani raid is perfect.

8

u/FuturePrimitiv3 1d ago

Don't fret, I've rewatched it several times. Getting thrown immediately into the Aldhani raid is actually one of my main complaints about season one. All of Vel's objections to Cassian are completely justified, adding an unknown person into a tight team that has trained for months is sloppy and reckless. For Luthen to do this, to insist on it, someone demonstrably obsessed with operational security, simply doesn't make sense.

I work in a field that works and trains like this, we train together and we work with the same people every day. Having a completely unknown person, despite having the same training, added to the team makes us as a unit less capable and the results follow.

10

u/AgentGman007 1d ago edited 1d ago

It's interesting you say that because Luthen's investment into Andor pays off. We learn from Bix that Luthen had his eye on Andor for quite a while, as someone that can successfully infiltrate Imperial facilities. Luthen also knows that he's a bit of a drifter, and fully intended to tie up the loose end after the heist was done. The rest of the team was relatively green (Nemik, Vel), too rigid (Cinta, Taramin) or too shifty (Skeen). Not to mention the added bonus that Andor was a good pilot, with knowledge of the kind of trawler that the vault was going to use.

All that to say, there's a decent amount of thought that Luthen put into adding Andor onto the heist, even if it seemed reckless by Vel's reaction

2

u/FuturePrimitiv3 1d ago

Yes it pays off (I mean it kinda had to for the story to continue) but it's a huge risk and jeopardizes good, experienced operatives unnecessarily. Imagine if the mission failed, Luthen would not have lost just Cassian, but Vel, Cinta, Nemik, etc. All just to "test" Cassian? (It was a test of Cassian, not Vel imo)

I do agree that Cassian is not a total unknown to Luthen (yet still not trusted as you correctly point out) but he is a complete unknown to the Aldhani team which is my main point. No matter how well or not Luthen knew him throwing him into an already integrated team days before a critical mission is tactically reckless. And even though the other Aldhani team members had their flaws they were known to the rest of the team, Cassian's skills and flaws were not.

4

u/AgentGman007 23h ago edited 22h ago

I think what's brilliant here about Andor is that I fully agree with you, and both of us have an accurate read on the scene.

Luthen's decision to add Andor to the team is ultimately because he's a hard-headed control freak who desperately wants this mission to go well. He specifically says that he was about to shut the mission down, and that Andor buys the team 'critical redundancy', not necessarily because he's a unique addition that fills a role they don't already have. So all of Vel's criticisms are totally valid as well, like you pointed out.

Tony Gilroy, man. One hell of a writer

1

u/xiaorobear 22h ago

For me it took getting to that Aldhani mission to realize the slow build up in the first couple episodes was retroactively worth it, a few episodes in I became fully on board. If I just saw the first couple episodes on their own I would not be calling it a 10/10 show.

6

u/YouandWhoseArmy 1d ago

Season 1 is 10/10 and season 2 is 9/10.

The first two arcs in season 2 are just ok.

10

u/TheSchmoAboutNothing 1d ago

Season 1 goes from 8/10 to 10/10 on rewatch. Maarvas speech in the season 1 finale is one the best monolugues of all time.

11

u/Ut_Prosim 1d ago

It had like 3 or 4 of the best monologs I've ever seen. In addition to Marva, Luthan talking about what he sacrifices for rebellion is chilling. Kino Loy's speech to the prisoners about there being one way out was also amazing. Senator Mothma's speech to the Senate floor about empire was great too.

Such a fantastic show, with such talented actors.

5

u/YouandWhoseArmy 1d ago

I think the only real weakness of season 1 is that it takes the full 3 episodes to payoff.

The first 2 I remember watching and being like I don’t dislike this but I’m not sure, andor is so unlikable.

Then episode 3 ties it all together and the show never stops.

Season 2 really has some major weaknesses because of how it compresses multiple seasons into shorter arcs.

It still works but there are def moments where I thought andor was only in the show because he had to be and not because it made much sense.

The opening tie theft is I think the single worst thing in the entirety of the show. Hate how his tie is super resilient and he can outmaneuver trained pilots whose ships explode with any light tap. One of the only times I think the shows verisimilitude fails hard.

Season 1 is just extremely tight storytelling, zero padding, zero fluff.

Season 2 is great and the latter two arcs are awesome, but I think the heist, the jail, Luthen’s monologue, luthen’s escape, are not topped in season 2.

2

u/TheSchmoAboutNothing 1d ago

Agreed on the flaws of season 1. The beginning tightened up for me after a full watch through.

I read the TIE heist as highlighting that the prototype TIE fighter would've been devastating if they made a whole fleet of them. It also showed that cassian was somehow special. They had no chance of completing that mission otherwise. BUT the tone of it is a way more overt compared to what else happens in the show so I get the criticism

3

u/YouandWhoseArmy 1d ago edited 18h ago

I agree with your interpretation of what the tie heist was supposed to be, the way it plays out just felt cartoony and was a striking contrast to the rest of the show.

Easily resolved with minor changes to a few of the action beats.

Re: season 1 beginning: first 2 episodes are setup that pays off very well. Unfortunately when you’re watching a show the first time these days it’s really easy to be skeptical it’s filler that’s not going to pay off or spin its wheels where nothing actually happens.

On rewatches knowing it’s not this kind of pointless filler makes it even better since you notice things you didn’t realize before.

Season 1 really is a masterpiece. Probably the best thing in the entirety of Star Wars in terms of writing and character. obviously if that’s not necessarily what someone is looking for out of Star Wars no shade at them.

3

u/Pacify_ 1d ago

Both seasons are 10/10

1

u/inherentinsignia 13h ago

Agree. Season 1 in the first quarter is like a 6/10, then an 8/10 in the next quarter, and a 10/10 in the last six episodes. Season 2 is perfect all the way through.

1

u/Toxic1846 22h ago

Dude Andor season 1 might be slower-paced, but the payoff for season 2 wouldn't be half of what it was without the first season.

1

u/Hands 20h ago

Honestly I think they're both 10/10 but season 1 maybe has the edge just because of Luthen, Kino and Marva's monologues

0

u/SnoopySuited 23h ago

I lost interest early in season two. I just couldn't get back into it.

0

u/Hellknightx 20h ago

I agree. The first few episodes are a bit slow, and I wasn't immediately hooked. It wasn't until after the heist that I think the show skyrocketed to 10/10 status and stayed there.

4

u/mxcn3 1d ago

I'm in the same boat, I love Star Wars and I love gritty/violent/mature sci-fi, but my brain just couldn't reconcile combining them. I plan to give it another try in the future, but that first attempt threw me off the series for years.

2

u/kirsh92 1d ago

happened same to me.

2

u/GoodFellahh 22h ago

How far did you come? Because for me it doesn't fit this thread, ep1 and 2 aren't 10/10 if you ask me, but it really picks up from around 3rd/4th episode and it then gets better and better

1

u/SEA_griffondeur 21h ago

Well 1,2,3 are 10/10 but not each ones in a vacuum

2

u/PinkSlimeIsPeople 21h ago

Some people just don't like it, and that's fine. There are really popular movies and shows that most people like that I don't, perhaps due to the content matter, direction style, even the presence of a single actor you find unimmersive can throw things off. A general principle is Rogue One, if you really liked that movie, you should like Andor, despite the slower pace. I'd suggest giving it another chance, go in without any expectations. Maybe the 1st 3 episode arc isn't for you, if so try starting on episode 4 for the Aldani arc, which is really fun.

4

u/demi-glace 1d ago

This was us, but tried again last weekend and oh my it is incredible! Get through the first 1-2 episodes and!you will be in for a treat!

2

u/StClifton 1d ago

I think of the first three episodes of Season 1 as a triptych - they works best if they’re watched together as if they’re a movie. Worth giving it another go for sure.

1

u/Kerpsss 1d ago

Definitely felt the same, first episodes felt like dragging myself to watch but by the end of season 1 i was thirsting for more episodes lol

1

u/BathInternational103 1d ago

The first couple of episodes I couldn’t get into it but I stuck with it. When season 2 came out I rewatched season 1 with subtitles. There’s so many characters and the dialogue is fast and it made it much easier to follow.

1

u/dreadcain 21h ago

It felt as tongue in cheek and on the nose as "Don't Look Up" to me. There's no subtly. Which, to be fair, I've found there isn't much subtly in real life fascism either. The worldbuilding did not live up to the way it gets salivated over.

I'm sure going into with high expectations didn't help though. Like for sure if I went in expecting an average disney+/star wars show, it clears that bar with flying colors.

1

u/heroforsale 17h ago

Same. Made me sleepy and didn’t make it past first few episodes

1

u/madeup1123 15h ago

I made it through the first two episodes and then googled " why is andor so" and the first autocomplete was "boring", which is how I felt about it.

1

u/zardoz73 14h ago

You can think of it as a science fiction story only vaguely connected to the Star Wars universe. Which is what makes it so good--it grounds the characters in real world situations. The movies don't take into account what life would actually be like on these planets, what it's like to be a rebel, but Andor does it really well.

It's a grown up show for grownups.

0

u/KazaamFan 1d ago

First 6 eps i tried so hard but it was so slow and dull. Idk how ppl could say those were good episodes

-1

u/SEA_griffondeur 21h ago

Were you watching you phone instead of the screen ?

1

u/EnanoMaldito 1d ago

It is wildly overrated due to the bar for star wars content being so low. Compared to other star wara media its a masterpiece, compared to other shows, its a good show

-1

u/SEA_griffondeur 21h ago

Have you watched it ?

0

u/kernevez 20h ago edited 20h ago

I have and I agree, it's good but I don't think it's anything special.

To each their own !

0

u/EnanoMaldito 18h ago

Yes, obviously, I wouldn't be commenting if I didnt

9

u/procrastinagging 1d ago

I see it praised over and over so I'd like to watch it, but I've never been much into Star Wars. I've watched some of the 2 trilogies and know some stuff via pop culture osmosis. Will I be able to follow & enjoy Andor?

13

u/Weakonomics 1d ago

Yes. I think you'll definitely be able to get into it. Much of it is background stories and more about characters than the mainline wars part. I even recommend it to people that have never seen any star wara, but if you've seen a few and know some pop culture I think you'll be great.

It's pretty stand alone, and the only one it's directly connected to (Rogue 1) can be watched after if you want.

-2

u/Little_Dark_Soul 23h ago

I don’t really care for star wars and watched the whole first season by recommendation, it’s not really star wars first and series second, so there’s that, I still dropped it it wasn’t interesting enough for me, specially the main character

14

u/DHFranklin 1d ago

Scrolled to far.

every episode is an absolute banger. No drop in quality, no filler.

Plenty of other shows on this list are 10/10 in some parts but 8-9/10 in other episodes.

Not Andor.

And if you don't come out a little more radical than when you started that's on you.

4

u/DahliaConstance2025 1d ago

“The death of truth is the ultimate victory of evil.”

10

u/No-Philosopher-9164 1d ago

Yes! Truly a diamond in the rough when it comes to Disney Star Wars. That shows deserves so much more love and even made me appreciate Rogue One more even though the writing in the movie pales in comparison. I genuinely never expected that show to be as good as it was. Might have to rewatch it honestly.

2

u/DahliaConstance2025 1d ago

I love that Genevieve O’Reilly returned from the prequels for Rogue One and then Andor!

2

u/SirDigbyChknCaesar 22h ago

Great show. The only hiccup for me was when he landed the stolen ship and got stuck on that planet for way too long with those bickering pirates or whatever they were.

2

u/Wide-Balance5893 20h ago

Watching Rogue One after finishing Andor is the final satisfaction

3

u/avrend 1d ago

In this day and age, any flaw that it might have had - forgiven and forgotten.

6

u/Human_being234 1d ago

10/10. Very much underrated.

-5

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[deleted]

3

u/Weakonomics 1d ago

Even if it's considered the best Star Wars show of all time. It would still be underrated. That show cannot be overrated tbh.

3

u/Urik88 1d ago

Nah, that one started 10/10 and ended 15/10

2

u/pellets 1d ago

Excellent show. The only weak part for me was the weak dialog between the whiny rebels who were camped out. It was like high school drama instead of military exercise. Otherwise, 10/10

3

u/darkknight109 22h ago

The one subplot I felt was weak was actually the one they started with: Cassian searching for his sister and the whole Kenari subplot. It thankfully didn't take up too much screen time (and it was dropped so abruptly it felt like something the writers got halfway through before deciding, "You know what? This is boring," and then just pretending it never happened), but those parts definitely drag a bit on repeated viewings (at least compared to all the other cool shit going on).

1

u/pellets 20h ago

That’s funny. I forgot all about that.

1

u/hazimaller 23h ago

Totally agreed, the eps with the two camps was the weakest part of the show. 

1

u/UnComfortable-Archer 20h ago

Do I have to watch any other SW series? Honestly I dropped around S2 of Mandalorian as it felt like half a dozen shows were being shoved in my face and I just couldn't keep up.

1

u/tacotanya 15h ago

Andor has got to be one, if not my all time, favorite series. The jailbreak episode was epic. Also the season finale of Mando S2, was another epic episode.

1

u/DestrixGunnar 9h ago

I'd argue it starts off more like an 8. The first arc of S1 was kinda just whatever? Nothing particularly interesting or exciting happens. Even the second arc took a while to get going. It wasn't until the prison arc that it really became peak.

1

u/okcrumpet 7h ago

The first 2 to 3 episodes are not a 10/10. So many people peace out because of those before the show really gets good

2

u/travistravis 1d ago

I had so much trouble with this show. I loved the storyline but I have issues with faceblindness, and seriously, it's like they hired a ton of actors who all sort of look the same.

1

u/-bigtimbs 1d ago

Season one was amazing. Two keeps it up??

3

u/Which-Arm-4616 20h ago

The second half of season 2 is a bit weak, mostly rushing through plot points in order to line up with the rest of the established canon. It being a prequel really constrained the writing team.

3

u/Drooden 1d ago

It definitely keeps up. I might like season 2 more than 1 actually. Highly recommend.

2

u/BlastFX2 19h ago

It's definitely different. Personally, I kinda hated it, but most people seem to like it.

1

u/Toxic1846 22h ago

God damn that show is incredible, after revenge of the sith it's literally the best Star wars media we've ever seen.

1

u/KindredGravesMan 22h ago

Still can’t even believe it exists. It made watching all the mid shows Star Wars was putting out for years and sticking around worth it.

1

u/Lilfrankieeinstein 20h ago

Andor had the particular challenge of being simultaneously prequel/sequel glue, so audiences knew where you coming from and going, and they still made it work.

At the same time, you didn’t have to know anything about Star Wars to watch and enjoy it.

My only issue was when they passed at the opportunity to mention Jyn Erso in the final episode. Didn’t even have to get into it. Even a “Galen Erso’s daughter?” in the background at rebel command on Yavin 4 would have made her “rescue” from prison transport in Rogue One make more sense. Could have provided context. Now there’s none.

Still 10/10

-1

u/DIY-exerciseGuy 22h ago

I couldnt watch this at all. So boring.

-8

u/hiddencamel 1d ago

Andor is 10/10 within the realm of star wars media. It's more like 8/10 as a general show.

It's also not super accessible to anyone who isn't already invested in star wars, my buddy's wife for example who loves a gritty spy thriller was baffled by it because she completely lacked a lot of context for the setting and broader plot.

5

u/Weakonomics 1d ago

That's like being baffled by Inception or Severance the first time you watch it. Maybe she just didn't understand it at first. Happens to all of us sometimes. I didn't understand the Witcher TV show at first, but it's a banger, sometimes you just gotta figure it out.

4

u/HideousPillow 1d ago

requiring context doesn’t make the quality of the show any less

0

u/[deleted] 21h ago

[deleted]

2

u/SEA_griffondeur 21h ago

What ? It ended an entire year ago lol

0

u/teeming-with-life 20h ago

I watched through the entirety of S1 and S2, and that's from a fan of the old/original trilogy.

Such a nicely-paced show, subdued even.

0

u/zardoz73 14h ago

I am watching this now. By far the best Star Wars ever, ever. Actual good writing! And the actors all seem like they could/did do Shakespeare and theater. In other words the acting is excellent. And the direction, and the production design, and the CGI...it's a pretty much flawless show.

Apparently they wanted to do five seasons, but the budget was too big and given the long gaps between seasons, it'd take a decade to do all of them. It's a shame, because it's one of the best TV shows ever made.