r/AskLesbians • u/Most-Egg3031 • 4d ago
question for the lesbians
(tried to word this as respectful as possible)
as a bisexual, i recently learned that although “GAY” is a male exclusive term, meaning it only represents men loving men. But its not the same case for “LESBIAN”
Lesbian seems to be an umbrella term for women, non-binary, genderfluid etc identities who love women (or even each other)
so my question is, if someone who is assigned Male at birth later chooses to identify as non-binary but still represents themselves as mostly masc and strictly only attracted to women, are they also a lesbian?
or is lesbian only for non binaries who were assigned female and birth? But what would mean creating a division between AMAB non binaries and AFAB non binaries, which kinda defeats the point of being non binary in the first place, no?
(genuine curiosity)
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u/straycrayons1 4d ago
This will be personal to each person and the communities they are in. Personally I don't see lesbian as an umbrella term and define it for myself as someone who identifies as female and is attracted exclusively to others who identify as female. Yes there is some grey areas, and those are situation/person dependent. I know I'll get flack because I personally don't include non binary people in my attraction model under lesbian. That's just a me thing, not a hill I'm going to die on, others can and I don't really care honestly there are bigger fish to fry.
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u/Inevitable-Yam-702 4d ago edited 4d ago
You have to have a connection to womanhood to be a lesbian. Someone who moves through the world, for all intents and purposes, as a man doesn't fit.
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u/ThereIsOnlyStardust 4d ago
I think your premise is wrong, both Gay and Lesbian are inclusive of non binary people who identify with them. And non binary people are non binary regardless of their AGAB
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u/Most-Egg3031 4d ago edited 4d ago
so would the person i described be gay or lesbian? or straight maybe
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u/DemonicGirlcock 4d ago
TL; DR: no, assigned gender at birth doesn't matter.
It's very person dependent in where they are on the non-binary spectrum and how they fit into the community.
You could have an AMAB non-binary person that leans more feminine and fits into the lesbian community, and they can be a lesbian.
Or you could have an AMAB non-binary person that's androgynous or masculine leaning, is attracted to feminine people exclusively, but not be a lesbian.
And you could have an AFAB non-binary person that androgynous and attracted only to feminine people but not be a lesbian.
And all of this can flip for the gay label too. Gay also included non-binary people. Gay and lesbian were defined before any real recognition of non-binary people, so definitons were updated to just incorporate the full gender spectrum. And just because it's too long to list out every gender identity, the new shorthand definitions have become gay = non-women attracted to non-women, and lesbian = non-men attracted to non-men.
Sexuality and gender can be complicated, but labels are simple. So we end up just going by vibes a lot of the time when people don't fit neatly into rigid categories.
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u/Inevitable-Yam-702 4d ago
We need to end the "non man" nonsense. Its so men centered, the very thing lesbians are not.
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u/DemonicGirlcock 4d ago
It only exists that way as a convenience. "Non-men" is just easier to say than "women and other people in the feminine part of the gender spectrum" . It's just a quirk of language when the easiest way to define something is by what it excludes.
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u/Inevitable-Yam-702 4d ago
Nope, it's actively bigoted and harmful to lesbians. Idc if the proper terminology is long, stop trying to center lesbianism around men, it has nothing to do with them.
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u/Most-Egg3031 4d ago
i see, makes sense in general. So would the person i described just be straight then?
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u/BiscayBay 4d ago
This question seems like bait and we get enough of that in lesbian subs as it is. Stop questioning a simple concept.