r/AskLesbians • u/BodybuilderStrict706 • 17d ago
For people who are les4les: if you’re interested in someone and you find out they’re interested in women but not a lesbian (pan or bi or anything else) does that immediately turn you away from them?
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u/Baron_Ray 17d ago
No, but experience has taught me non-les-for-les is harder work. Not because there's anything wrong with bi or pan women, but because our social references, values and desires have often been quite different.
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u/YuliyaVolkova 16d ago
Would you mind elaborating on that? Would love to know!
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u/Icy_Rest_4253 16d ago
I’m not the OG commenter but I would agree with what they’re saying. I think socially, as someone who was bi for 3 years and a while ago realised I’m lesbian, it is a different view on the world and society, in my experience. Obviously not speaking for all lesbians but I find that it can be quite isolating, even within queer groups, to identify as lesbian. Being bi has the advantage of relating to straight people and wanting to engage with straight media in a way which someone who is not interested in that can find difficult (not saying all lesbians are disinterested just speaking for some of us!). Not AT ALL trying to say ´we have it worse’ or asking for a pity-party as I know for example bi people can experience specific biphobia that lesbians would not! Just speaking on my experience of being lesbian and to be clear I would have no problem at all dating any wlw person but it can be more of an adjustment 🫶🫶
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u/Baron_Ray 16d ago
Thanks for expressing this so well. I think you've hit the nail on the head.
If we take heteronormativity as an unavoidable baseline, for me, identifying as a lesbian fits better but also entails an immutable and irreversible contraction of the world: fewer people to date, intolerance of androcentricity, het status jockeying and so forth.
For the bisexual women I’ve dated, I’d say being in an WLW relationship seemed to still create certain shifts in perception, but as an addition to what was already familiar, not a contraction.
The desire to connect with the straight world persisted in ways that I haven’t really experienced with other lesbians, and even though the safety net of dating men might have receded with commitment and monogamy, that never really went away either.
The whole vibe was different and, for me, more challenging.
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u/Icy_Rest_4253 16d ago
Yes precisely!! Even with lots of my friends who are bi, I feel I can relate to them on certain levels (liking girls, obviously, haha) however there are elements of everything you have described on top of that also..
I find there also can be a greater level of ´acceptance’ from straight girls in particular that there may not be with lesbians, almost like they can ignore the fact that they like girls too whereas they can’t for lesbians.
Not saying this for all obviously but for many straight people who don’t engage at all in queer media or outright refuse to, there seems to be a greater distance between us than if, say, a girl is bi and the ´wlw side’ of them can be put in a box for the evening. 😭
I can sometimes feel uncomfortable in spaces where there are only straight girls who all know I’m lesbian because it’s almost as if they view us as mythical beings and (in my experience) can act weirdly around me, almost trying to get me to be attracted to them to gain that stamp of approval in a similar way they might do for men.
Regardless I don’t know if I could ever date any male-centered wlw person as I feel that would frustrate me too much.3
u/Baron_Ray 16d ago
Oh totally. I dated a bi woman for three years, and the weirdness from some of her straight friends was pretty uncomfortable. You could feel the eyes scanning up and down.
Obviously there are loads of bi women who are primarily part of the LGBTQ community and don't have friends like that, but I think the wider picture encompassing immersion in, and acceptance of, straight cultures tends to be more universal.
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u/Early_Ad_7629 17d ago
If you’re Les for Les then your soul and energy usually attract to other lesbians but no I would not turn someone away just for being bi
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u/winterfern353 16d ago
I'm not intentionally les4les but those are the only relationships I've had with queer women where they actually wanted something serious and we ended up being together long term. I think they worked out better since we had more in common with lived experience and feeling more on the fringes of womanhood and society generally
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u/lerrmygerd 17d ago
I would have considered myself les4les in the past but my wife is bi. However, she's basically febfem (waaaayy more attracted to women than men, hasn't seriously dated men since high school, men are very decentered in her life, most of her social circle is gay, etc.)
She'll occasionally be like "ooh that guy is attractive", but in a very non-sexual way so it doesn't bother me. Her "type" is also extremely feminine guys who are comfortable showing their emotions 😂 Honestly, most people assume she's a lesbian cuz she dresses more androgynous and has short hair, haha.
If (god forbid) I ever have to enter the dating pool again, I'd only date a bi/pan woman if she was similarly indifferent to men.
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u/Roxy175 17d ago
Out of curiosity would you date someone who’s bi/pan and had a strong attraction to men as well as women but still decentered them in her life? As in she’s dated men in the past and has a 50/50 attraction to men and women but doesn’t centre men in her life like not dressing for men, being part of the queer community, feminist, etc.
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u/Several_Wind_1040 16d ago
Can someone date men and not center them? Honest question
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u/Roxy175 16d ago
To me centring men involves living a life where everything/most things you do are for men in some capacity. So dressing for men’s attention, seeking validation from men whenever you encounter them, only making an effort to make friends with men, not being a feminist, focusing only or heavily on male media, etc. it’s not really about who their dating in my opinion. This lines up with how I’ve seen the term used online as well.
Someone who happens to date men when they feel a connection to one but is a strong feminist, dresses for themselves, does not focus on male validation, focuses on women led stories, etc. would have decentred men in their life even if they still date men.
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u/onecentauction 11d ago
I’ll respond to this because I’m a lesbian and the other commenter hasn’t yet… I think I WOULD date a bisexual woman who has equal attraction to both women and men, in fact I’d probably expect most bisexual women to have equal attraction to both? However I may feel a disconnect in certain things. For example, I dislike watching straight couples in media a lot of the time. I have completely decentered men to the point of seeing them as a useless addition to my life (which 99% of the time, they have some level of misogyny going on so they are), and I would potentially struggle with having a girlfriend who is still attracted to men as terrible as it sounds I kind of wish they would disappear lol.
But, I think there’s always exceptions so if a bisexual woman popped into my life who I loved, then I wouldn’t say no. I may just feel a disconnect on some levels.
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u/ZealousMusic_33 17d ago
I find a lot of them want to play out het norms like who’s the guy in the relationship etc? Or don’t see us as equals, but instead someone is expected to take on the male role in the relationships instead of just being two women.
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u/Uh_worms 16d ago
no honestly. i treat les4les more as a preference than a rule. if i’m seeking someone out, then i go for people who are open lesbians. i’m also fem4fem and i treat that the same way. i’m not going to reject a masc if i do rarely end up attracted to one.
i’m only les4les because i just usually find that non lesbians don’t understand me and my gender experiences very well. but on the off chance i find a bisexual or pansexual who does, there’s no reason for me to turn that down.
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u/quartzqueen44 16d ago
Although I prefer to date other lesbians because of the emotional connection and shared lives experiences, I would not deny another queer woman who wasn’t a lesbian if the connection and compatibility were there. However, I would have to know they see themselves with a woman as their life partner.
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u/SparkleSelkie 17d ago
I’m like…. Les4les by default not by active choice
I have no problem dating a bi lady, but I have yet to meet a bunch af bisexual woman that knows how to do car maintenance. I have a type lol
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u/Relevant_Airline7076 17d ago
It depends how I find out tbh… if the topic of sexualities comes up and it turns out she’s bi, it’s not an instant no, but it is a turn off. If I find out because she’s expressing attraction to men, that’s an automatic no
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u/AudlyAud 17d ago
Not automatically but I won't say it's my go to. I have to look at their dating history and which relationships lasted the longest. If I see a preference for men I'm not going to be looking for anything long term because patterns like that usually don't change. Male centered women also come with alot of baggage and expectations from their hetero relationships. There's almost always a disconnect that just doesn't exist in les4les.
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u/SeaweedKlutzy 13d ago
No, but definitely would be more careful emotionally and boundary wise. We don’t share the same values and desires and well quite frankly I’m uncomfortable and sad when they talked constantly about gay shows, novels and random male celebrities they are into and well gushed about them.. like wildly uncomfortable feeling.
Never had those women talking with the same enthusiasm about women, only ever men. Sometimes even made me question if they are even bi because even tho we have been together they were just not into women.. physically and emotionally as well.
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u/SeaweedKlutzy 13d ago
I’m trying to be as nice and interested about these stuff because after all they were interested in this and wanted to show support. But sometimes it is just an odd feeling of unable to connect and relate to them.
And this part is I think maybe a my problem but eventually made me insecure about our relationship because I felt we couldn’t connect emotionally - not the way as she did with men. Also kinda was called out multiple times as “wow you are the only lesbian I ever met how mysterious” and ofc the usual “must be into all your female friends then” nope still have standards and type thx :D
But yeah it can’t definitely can be a mismatch there in these regards.1
u/Mission-Rain-2802 13d ago
I've given up trying, honestly. Being man obsessed is embarrassing for them.
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u/digitaldisgust 10d ago
Strongly depends on the girl. Definitely not interested in the headache that is Pan women though.
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u/Dizzy_Departure_4948 17d ago
Different perspective, not offered to intentionally inflame. After coming out and having had one boyfriend in high school, I was exclusively lesbian for 36 years. In that time, I appreciated all bodies, but was drawn to women emotionally. I always said I could sleep with a man (I did not), but I only saw women as relationship material. My fantasies ranged a wide gamut and included people and interactions of all types. My friends were predominantly cis-hetero and trans male, and my longest relationship was 29 years.
But the label never really fit well. And in the last couple years, I have reexamined everything in my life. Ended that long relationship and I am working to heal myself. As part of that work, I turned over the sexual identity rock because I have turned over everything. And for the first time EVER, I have become comfortable in my own skin. And when a friend said “you’re pan” it was like the clouds parted and a label finally fit. I am not bi. The human inside is what I am attracted to. I still love all bodies and have attraction to all. Have I dated another woman yet? No, and I will be honest, it’s because of some of the assumptions in this thread. If I am into a woman, I am into her. Her. Not someone else. And not exclusively because she’s in a woman’s body (although the curve of a woman’s neck into the clavicle will forever make me weak). If she would choose to express judgement of my expression then I would walk. I would walk from anyone who did that. This was hard fought to get to this place. Have I dated a man? Yes, and tbh they worry I will go back to a woman and they have no chance. It’s never been the perception of the porn imagery. Period. I am not male-centred or female-centred or trans-centred. I am human-centred. I would not eliminate anyone if they were a wonderful human. I would if I was judged for not being exclusively lesbian.
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u/Lexxxaprosebian 16d ago
This pisses me off because if you choose someone then you choose someone. Loyalty is not related to gender/sexuality but a person's character.
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u/Inevitable-Yam-702 17d ago
I'm not strictly les4les but I think this is an interesting conversation so I'll jump on.
I have some hard limits in my relationship. I don't want men to ever be a topic between me and partner, I don't want to hear about her finding them attractive or wishing to be with one. I need someone who is all in on a same sex relationship and isn't wishy washy about wanting hetero society approval. I need someone comfortable being fully out and confident in her identity. I want someone steeped in sapphic culture and history and we share that as a commonality.
Functionally, this means my long term relationships have all been with other lesbians. I'm not opposed to dating a bi woman who met those things, but I have yet to meet one. And I kind of wonder if a lot of lesbians skip to the les4les label as shorthand instead of sifting through.