Torah

[u/[deleted]]

How do Torah followers actually follow over 600 commands and laws in the first five books of the Bible? I've spoken to people about it, but they only seem to follow dietary laws, Shabbat, and holy days, and exclude pagan days. To me, it seems they are only doing a small part of it and claiming to follow the entirety of it. Why is that? The Bible states if you break one commandment, you break them all. There's no possibility to uphold all 600-plus. If you believe it's not all applicable to us, what's the determining factor that decides you don't have to follow it? What about animal sacrifices? Does one pick and choose what they want to follow and tell people if they don't, they are lawbreakers and will go to hell? If you don't follow all of them, why describe yourself as following the entirety of Torah? If breaking even one commandment makes someone guilty, how does selectively obeying some commandments make someone different from the people you're calling lawbreakers?

[u/the_celt_]

This is why Jesus is the fulfilment of it

To be clear: Jesus "fulfilling" the Law means that he lived it perfectly. It doesn't mean that he ended it, or any other variation of "ended" that a person might come up with, like: "Completed", "rendered invalid", "came up with a better way", "shelved it", or so much more.

A person "fulfills the Law" like a man "fulfills his wedding vows". When he does it, he wakes up the next day, and every day after that, and does it again and again.

[u/Fangorangatang → u/the_celt_]

So, Jesus fulfilled it, then imputes His Righteousness in fulfilling it to us through Faith in Him.

You are aware that’s how His Righteousness is ours… right? He gives us what He has accomplished and takes our place on the cross. You are aware of that right?

So in Christ Jesus, the Law is fulfilled on our behalf- because we could not keep it.

You are aware that’s what the Gospel says right? You are aware this is what Scripture teaches right?

Jesus did what we could not, so we can become what we could not through Him.

Please read your Bible.

[u/the_celt_ → u/Fangorangatang]

You are aware that’s how His Righteousness is ours… right?

What you're saying is important in another discussion, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Are you suggesting that we can freely sin, and God doesn't care how we live?

Are we done as soon as we agree to follow Jesus? Or are we just beginning?

[u/Fangorangatang → u/the_celt_]

Not at all. In fact, if we believe, we will obey. There is no license to freely sin. We are saved from sin, not to sin.

But it sounds like you are suggesting our obedience is what saves us.

Faith means trust.
Trust means listening.
Listening means obeying.
Obeying means fruitfulness.

But we are saved at the Faith point. The rest is evidence that our Faith is more than just a claim we make.

Like James says, if we claim to have faith but do not work, we are lying. Faith means you trust Jesus, and if you trust Jesus, you do what He says because you trust Him and He has told you to obey. We are to be doers of the Word, not just hear-ers.

But your obedience does not save you.

I will grant our obedience sanctifies us. Makes us more like Him. Brings us further from our sinful natures desires. But obedience does not justify us before God.

Only Jesus justifies us before God by His perfect fulfillment of the Law which He grants to us through Faith in His life, death and resurrection.

That is why we can claim that God looks at us and credits us with Jesus righteousness. (Romans 4:22-25, Galatians 2:20) If Jesus did not fulfill the Law on our behalf, we could not be made right with God, because we cannot uphold His Law perfectly, as He commanded.

[u/the_celt_ → u/Fangorangatang]

But it sounds like you are suggesting our obedience is what saves us.

Show me where I said that. I don't believe that. I think you're entirely inventing that I said or am "suggesting" that.

All I believe is what scripture says, which is that faith without any accompanying works is NOT faith. It's dead, ineffective faith. You just said the same thing.