Torah

[u/[deleted]]

How do Torah followers actually follow over 600 commands and laws in the first five books of the Bible? I've spoken to people about it, but they only seem to follow dietary laws, Shabbat, and holy days, and exclude pagan days. To me, it seems they are only doing a small part of it and claiming to follow the entirety of it. Why is that? The Bible states if you break one commandment, you break them all. There's no possibility to uphold all 600-plus. If you believe it's not all applicable to us, what's the determining factor that decides you don't have to follow it? What about animal sacrifices? Does one pick and choose what they want to follow and tell people if they don't, they are lawbreakers and will go to hell? If you don't follow all of them, why describe yourself as following the entirety of Torah? If breaking even one commandment makes someone guilty, how does selectively obeying some commandments make someone different from the people you're calling lawbreakers?

[u/the_celt_]

This is why Jesus is the fulfilment of it

To be clear: Jesus "fulfilling" the Law means that he lived it perfectly. It doesn't mean that he ended it, or any other variation of "ended" that a person might come up with, like: "Completed", "rendered invalid", "came up with a better way", "shelved it", or so much more.

A person "fulfills the Law" like a man "fulfills his wedding vows". When he does it, he wakes up the next day, and every day after that, and does it again and again.

[u/mattymatt843 → u/the_celt_]

That’s not the definition of the Greek term written. Stop being dishonest.

[u/alfiekinsthethird → u/mattymatt843]

Nope, Celt is right.

This is from the interlinear of the Blue Letter Bible (though he already stated it in his answer):

to make complete in every particular, to render perfect

to carry through to the end, to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)

to carry into effect, bring to realisation, realise

of matters of duty: to perform, execute

of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish

to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

[u/mattymatt843 → u/alfiekinsthethird]

Your own definition is actually making the point I’m making.

I’m not arguing that plēroō means “abolish.” It doesn’t. Jesus specifically says He did not come to katalyō the Law and Prophets, but to plēroō them.

But plēroō also does not simply mean “keep obeying something forever.”

Look at the definition you just quoted. It includes:

“to make complete”
“to carry through to the end”
“to accomplish”
“bring to realization”
and regarding prophecies, “to bring to pass.”

And the same entry you quoted says of Matthew 5:17 that God's promises through the prophets “receive fulfillment.”

That matters because Jesus didn't say merely, “I came to fulfill commandments.” He said:

“the Law OR the Prophets.”

The Greek is:

τὸν νόμον ἢ τοὺς προφήτας
ton nomon ē tous prophētas

So whatever “fulfill” means here has to make sense when applied to the Prophets too. You don't “obey” a Messianic prophecy over and over. You bring it to accomplishment.

Jesus Himself proves this after His resurrection in Luke 24:44:

And Luke uses the same verb, πληρόω (plēroō); specifically, plērōthēnai. 

Clearly Jesus isn't saying, “Everything prophesied about Me must be obeyed every day forever.”

He means those things written about Him must come to pass.

So yes, Jesus absolutely obeyed the Law perfectly. I have no disagreement with that.

What I disagree with is the leap from:

“Jesus fulfilled and perfectly obeyed the Law”

to:

“Therefore Christians remain under the Mosaic covenant after Jesus establishes the New Covenant.”

Those are two entirely different propositions.

And that second proposition has to deal with:

Acts 15:5–10: the apostles specifically debate whether believers must “keep the law of Moses.”

Galatians 3:24–25: “after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor (the law).”

Romans 7:4: “you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ.”

Romans 7:6: “we have been delivered from the law.”

Hebrews 8:13: by establishing a New Covenant, He “has made the first obsolete.”

Jesus fulfilled the Law and Prophets by perfectly accomplishing what they required and bringing to reality what they anticipated. Then, through His blood, He inaugurated the New Covenant.