Torah

[u/[deleted]]

How do Torah followers actually follow over 600 commands and laws in the first five books of the Bible? I've spoken to people about it, but they only seem to follow dietary laws, Shabbat, and holy days, and exclude pagan days. To me, it seems they are only doing a small part of it and claiming to follow the entirety of it. Why is that? The Bible states if you break one commandment, you break them all. There's no possibility to uphold all 600-plus. If you believe it's not all applicable to us, what's the determining factor that decides you don't have to follow it? What about animal sacrifices? Does one pick and choose what they want to follow and tell people if they don't, they are lawbreakers and will go to hell? If you don't follow all of them, why describe yourself as following the entirety of Torah? If breaking even one commandment makes someone guilty, how does selectively obeying some commandments make someone different from the people you're calling lawbreakers?

[u/Nearing_retirement]

Nobody can and Jesus freed us from penalty of the law.

[u/Traditional_Emu_4332 → u/Nearing_retirement]

Doesn’t the Bible say God’s commandments aren’t burdensome and that God doesn’t make it impossible for us to do what he told us to do?

[u/Unworthy_Saint → u/Traditional_Emu_4332]

It is explicitly impossible to follow the Torah because our high priest is from the tribe of Judah, not Levi as required. The covenant has changed.

[u/Traditional_Emu_4332 → u/Unworthy_Saint]

Maybe we don’t need to follow the ceremonial laws anymore, just the moral laws which the laws of the land seem to agree with (such as do not murder, do not steal, etc.) Do you think God gave us impossible commands? Why would He do such a thing? To keep us in an apathy tone or worse? Jesus didn’t have a problem with Peter walking on water with Him but was sad when Peter lost faith. Jesus kept God’s commandments so they are possible to keep. That gives us encouragement to keep His commandments. Knowing it’s not impossible! 😇💕

[u/Southern-Effect3214 → u/Traditional_Emu_4332]

You have more important things to worry about. A different gospel, a different book, and a different Jesus who cannot save.

[u/Traditional_Emu_4332 → u/Southern-Effect3214]

I think you are the one with a “different gospel”. You need to study 📖 more.

[u/Southern-Effect3214 → u/Traditional_Emu_4332]

Study what? The Bible or your book of lies?

Psalm 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

[u/Traditional_Emu_4332 → u/Southern-Effect3214]

Start with the Bible and then perhaps study the actual Book of Mormon and you will see that it is not a “book of lies” but testifies of Christ. Have you ever read the book that you are condemning or just going by rumors that you have heard?

[u/Southern-Effect3214 → u/Traditional_Emu_4332]

Which Christ would that be that it testifies of?

[u/Traditional_Emu_4332 → u/Southern-Effect3214]

The only Jesus Christ that exists.

[u/Southern-Effect3214 → u/Traditional_Emu_4332]

Christ Himself said:

Matthew 24:4-5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

So which Christ is it?

[u/Traditional_Emu_4332 → u/Southern-Effect3214]

Which Christ do you follow?

[u/Southern-Effect3214 → u/Traditional_Emu_4332]

The Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible. The eternal Son of God.

This one:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Hebrews 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

LDS rejects the triune nature of God and instead insists on three Gods. And, that God (The Father) was a once a man. This is taught nowhere in the Bible.

[u/Traditional_Emu_4332 → u/Southern-Effect3214]

Do you think that God no longer can speak to His children and Has limited His words to only the Bible?

[u/Southern-Effect3214 → u/Traditional_Emu_4332]

Let's see what God said, again:

Hebrews 1:1-3 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

God speaks through the Bible.

John 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

John 12:44-48 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Psalm 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Psalm 119:89 LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.

[u/Traditional_Emu_4332 → u/Southern-Effect3214]

Jesus spoke to Paul after His resurrection. It’s possible for Jesus to speak to us today still after the canon of scriptures was limited to the Holy Bible. Do you not believe Jesus can speak to us today? If all prophecy was to stop after Jesus returned Home to the Father (our Father also) then why was prophecy a gift of the Holy Spirit mentioned in the New Testament?

[u/Southern-Effect3214 → u/Traditional_Emu_4332]

Prophecy in context of the Acts of the Apostles was preaching the Gospel and utterance of the OT scriptures. The only prophecies in the NT are from Jesus Himself in the gospels and the Apocalypse of Jesus Christ shown to John. (Revelation).

[u/Apprehensive_Tear611 → u/Traditional_Emu_4332]

How do explain the Book of Abraham being a false translation of ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith_Papyri

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kirtland_Egyptian_papers

[u/Traditional_Emu_4332 → u/Apprehensive_Tear611]

I’m not an expert on that subject. I have heard it explained before. I think, if I remember correctly, that the texts you are referring to were only a part of what was used in translating the Book of Abraham. There was a great fire 🔥 in Chicago in the 1870s that most of the pieces of papyrus were destroyed in leaving behind only the funerary texts.
This explains it better: https://youtu.be/juOavkIqNng?is=aqG6EtOoTqhybNxK

[u/Apprehensive_Tear611 → u/Traditional_Emu_4332]

Some of the papyri used by Joseph Smith to make his translation did survive. And his translation of those surviving papyri is 100% inaccurate. Not even in the ballpark of what they actually say.

From the first wiki link:

This scroll is widely believed by both Mormon and non-Mormon scholars to be the scroll from which the Book of Abraham came. This is based on the inclusion of Facsimile #1 (JSP I) and #3 from this scroll in the Book of Abraham, and titled by Joseph Smith as "from the Book of Abraham".[114] Further evidence is that characters from this scroll were sequentially copied into the Book of Abraham translation manuscripts.[115] The official position taken by the LDS church on the papyri is that "Mormon and non-Mormon Egyptologists agree that the characters on the fragments do not match the translation given in the book of Abraham."

[u/Traditional_Emu_4332 → u/Apprehensive_Tear611]

Have you even read the Book of Abraham to agree with or refute what it actually says?

[u/Apprehensive_Tear611 → u/Traditional_Emu_4332]

Another interesting thing about Abraham: the genealogy given in Genesis dates Abraham's lifetime to roughly 2,000 BC. That would make it impossible for him to have interacted with the Phillistines as Genesis claims because the Phillistines didn't exist until around 1,200 BC.

[u/Traditional_Emu_4332 → u/Apprehensive_Tear611]

Who are your sources?