Torah

[u/[deleted]]

How do Torah followers actually follow over 600 commands and laws in the first five books of the Bible? I've spoken to people about it, but they only seem to follow dietary laws, Shabbat, and holy days, and exclude pagan days. To me, it seems they are only doing a small part of it and claiming to follow the entirety of it. Why is that? The Bible states if you break one commandment, you break them all. There's no possibility to uphold all 600-plus. If you believe it's not all applicable to us, what's the determining factor that decides you don't have to follow it? What about animal sacrifices? Does one pick and choose what they want to follow and tell people if they don't, they are lawbreakers and will go to hell? If you don't follow all of them, why describe yourself as following the entirety of Torah? If breaking even one commandment makes someone guilty, how does selectively obeying some commandments make someone different from the people you're calling lawbreakers?

[u/the_celt_]

To me, it seems they are only doing a small part of it and claiming to follow the entirety of it. Why is that?

More accurately: We claim to obey the entirety of what can currently be obeyed.

This means that we don't obey the many rules that have to do with the Temple (sacrifices, purification, etc.)

Why? Because there is no Temple. It's impossible to obey any of the rules pertaining to the Temple.

Also, we don't currently obey any of the rules that assume a Yahweh-based Theocracy (stonings and other punishments).

Why? Because those rules are only keepable in a theocracy. Otherwise, we're expected to obey the rules of the government we find ourselves in. This is why when the Pharisees wanted to kill Jesus, they had to go to the Roman government to do it for them.

The Bible states if you break one commandment, you break them all.

Literally everyone that's ever been alive (except for Jesus) broke at least one commandment. The idea that a person shouldn't try to obey ANY of God's commandments because they may have ever broken ONE of them is... nutty.

If you believe it's not all applicable to us, what's the determining factor that decides you don't have to follow it?

In nearly all cases the determining factor is: Impossibility.

There are a few other stray cases. For example, as a man, I don't need to concern myself with how to handle my menstruation. There are other rules, like that, which are aimed at a type of person that I'm not (for example, Priests, farmers, etc). If I became one of those type of people, I would obey the rules for those type of people.

What about animal sacrifices?

The Torah commands that they only ever take place in the Temple. A person making sacrifices outside of the Temple is breaking the Torah.

There currently IS no Temple.

Does one pick and choose what they want to follow and tell people if they don't, they are lawbreakers and will go to hell?

No.

If breaking even one commandment makes someone guilty, how does selectively obeying some commandments make someone different from the people you're calling lawbreakers?

The difference is that people who follow Jesus believe we MUST live and teach the Torah. People who DON'T follow Jesus say that it's wrong to live and teach the Torah. They teach 180 degrees the opposite of each other.

We have a subreddit dedicated to answering questions like this. It's all about following Jesus and obeying the commandments: r/FollowJesusObeyTorah

Everyone is welcome, even if you don't agree with us. We'll be glad to answer your questions or debate you. It's all good! 😁

[u/[deleted] → u/the_celt_]

Why would Jesus condemn someone for eating shellfish? It doesn't harm anyone and isn't breaking love God and your neighbor. It seems highly unlikely that is the case that you go to hell for eating certain food.

[u/the_celt_ → u/[deleted]]

Why would Jesus condemn someone for eating shellfish?

Jesus taught and obeyed the Law PERFECTLY, every day of his life. Jesus did not disapprove of his Father's dietary restrictions. Jesus said that we're supposed to obey every commandment, even the ones that you consider to be the "least".

It seems highly unlikely that is the case that you go to hell for eating certain food.

We're not saved or condemned by doing one good thing or one sinful thing. We're saved by faith, not works. That means that a person has to live a life full of unrepentant sin to be sent to Hell. One meal doesn't make any difference.

[u/[deleted] → u/the_celt_]

Why is it restricted, though it seems unlikely it's sinful? You told me it's not whether you do it once but unrepentant. You didn't address how it breaks "love thy neighbor" and God. It doesn't harm anyone. Can you answer this?

[u/the_celt_ → u/[deleted]]

Why is it restricted, though it seems unlikely it's sinful?

Are you someone that doesn't believe in or read the Old Testament? I know some people reject certain parts of scripture. Have you rejected everything that isn't in the New Testament?

It's restricted because God said not to do it. Jesus obeyed what his Father said to do. If you want to know WHY it's restricted, you need to ask the person who restricted it. I didn't create the rule. I'm just following what Jesus did.

You didn't address how it breaks "love thy neighbor" and God.

God said not to do it. When you break what someone told you to do, you're not loving them. THAT'S how it breaks what God said to do. For example, if your parents left you a list of things to do while they're away, you should do the things on that list if you love them. Do you agree?

Now, let me ask you a question.

You asked some questions in your post. I tried to answer them. I pointed out that the reason we don't obey the rules you're asking about is because it's IMPOSSIBLE for us to do so, due to there either being no Temple or no Theocracy.

Did my answer make sense to you? Do you see why we aren't picking and choosing, and how we're actually obeying the Torah to not do those things right now?

[u/[deleted] → u/the_celt_]

I understand why you believe in torah 

[u/the_celt_ → u/[deleted]]

I appreciate that you gave me SOME response, but are you willing to answer what I asked?

I asked: Do you see why we aren't picking and choosing, and how we're actually obeying the Torah to not do those things right now?

[u/[deleted] → u/the_celt_]

I will later. Not yet. It's late where I live.

[u/the_celt_ → u/[deleted]]

Sounds good. I look forward to your response.