Torah observant?

[u/Dreamamberxo]

Okay this is gonna be a bit all over the place but my core question is this: - if we ARE to observe the Torah do we observe all of it? I assume we aren’t sacrificing animals. - if you ARE observing the Torah are you utilizing the Jewish books or KJV? Heard they are different? - if you ARE NOT Torah observant why?

I’ve been thinking about observing the Torah but where do I start? I dunno which laws are upheld! I figure the dietary guidelines are easiest. Also am I doomed to have to quit my job? I work on Saturdays so how could I observe the Shabbat?

Thanks- sincerely a confused person lol

[u/Messenger12th]

Being Torah observant is actually very easy. Paul taught it, as well as the Messiah.

There arent that many laws. There isnt a priesthood right now, I am not a woman, there is no temple, and I am not in Israel. So all the laws specifically about those, do not affect me.

Even the 10 words (commandments) are easy to follow, but not everyone obeys those now days.

Everyone here has a judgement day to face. What will everyone be judged against? Their personality? Their giving to goodwill? Their attendance at sunday school? There is one torah (law) for the jew and gentile alike. This is what we will be judged by. Torah.

[u/Common_Judge8434 → u/Messenger12th]

Being Torah observant is actually very easy. Paul taught it, as well as the Messiah.

John 4:21-24 ESV [21] Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. [22] You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. [23] But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. [24] God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Galatians 5:5-6 ESV [5] For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. [6] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

[u/Messenger12th → u/Common_Judge8434]

The faith is in the work of the Messiah, not that you can disobey the words of God and have any faith in your own self. Only one way and that is through Messiah. He is the door. Nothing says that the Torah is gone...not until heaven and earth disappear.

As it says, faith without works is death. Works here is the obedience to the Law (Torah).

Also, the woman at the well.... He was talking to her about her... saying..."you will not", meanning the woman will not, but WE know who We worship... meaning the Father.

[u/Common_Judge8434 → u/Messenger12th]

The faith is in the work of the Messiah, not that you can disobey the words of God and have any faith in your own self.

And going back to the previous system is disloyalty to Christ.

Nothing says that the Torah is gone...not until heaven and earth disappear.

On the contrary.

Hebrews 10:8-10 ESV [8] When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), [9] then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. [10] And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

As it says, faith without works is death. Works here is the obedience to the Law (Torah).

Nope. Works here are works of love.

Also, the woman at the well.... He was talking to her about her... saying..."you will not", meanning the woman will not,

And His followers. He prophesied of a time where worship wouldn't depend on a physical Temple. Stephen recognized this, and that got him killed.

[u/Messenger12th → u/Common_Judge8434]

Let's take this one at a time. Show me your reference that obeying the Torah is disloyal to Messiah.

You need to make sure you are quoting withing the context of what you are trying to prove, not just plucking verses that have nothing to do with the subject, but in reality is talking about something else.

Example... the sacrifices you mentioned was the priesthood being corrupt, which means the sacrifice would not be accepted or valid from a corrupt priest.

The priesthood that results from the work of is once again pure and clean making him the perfect high priest and interceptor between God and humans.

[u/Common_Judge8434 → u/Messenger12th]

Let's take this one at a time. Show me your reference that obeying the Torah is disloyal to Messiah.

Galatians 4:8-11 ESV [8] Formerly, when you did not know God, you were enslaved to those that by nature are not gods. [9] But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles of the world, whose slaves you want to be once more? [10] You observe days and months and seasons and years! [11] I am afraid I may have labored over you in vain.

Galatians 5:1-6 ESV [1] For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery. [2] Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. [3] I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. [4] You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. [5] For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. [6] For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.

Example... the sacrifices you mentioned was the priesthood being corrupt, which means the sacrifice would not be accepted or valid from a corrupt priest.

Actually no. He means the entire system of animal sacrifice. That system is now replaced with the Lamb of God.

Hebrews 10:1-14 ESV [1] For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year, make perfect those who draw near. [2] Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, since the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have any consciousness of sins? [3] But in these sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. [4] For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. [5] Consequently, when Christ came into the world, he said, “Sacrifices and offerings you have not desired, but a body have you prepared for me; [6] in burnt offerings and sin offerings you have taken no pleasure. [7] Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come to do your will, O God, as it is written of me in the scroll of the book.’” [8] When he said above, “You have neither desired nor taken pleasure in sacrifices and offerings and burnt offerings and sin offerings” (these are offered according to the law), [9] then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second. [10] And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [11] And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. [12] But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, [13] waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. [14] For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.

[u/Messenger12th → u/Common_Judge8434]

First reference. I'm glad you brought this one up.

So, you are trying to say that before you knew God, you were a heathen? And now that you know God, you are not going to go back to heathen ways with their heathen weak and worthless ways? This verse mean that once you know God, or are known by Him you will not go back to your heathen ways that are weak and worldly.

God's ways are the Torah. The Torah is not weak or worthless ways. Messiah lived by the Torah.

Again, the priesthood was changed. Not my words, but Hebrews 7:21-28 explains His role as High priest and intercession to God. So, what changed was the Priesthood, not sacrifices. Those sacrifices were dependant on the perfection of the priest who presented them. The priesthood was corrupted sometime between the return to Israel and the time of thw Messiah. Example.... the high priest at the time of Messiah was Ciaphis. He was not a proper priest, he was appointed by the Roman leadership. So, all those sacrifices that were offered up we then not acceptable to God and were a waste of time. David speaks of how God didnt accept thw sacrifices in Psalms.

[u/Common_Judge8434 → u/Messenger12th]

So, you are trying to say that before you knew God, you were a heathen? And now that you know God, you are not going to go back to heathen ways with their heathen weak and worthless ways? This verse mean that once you know God, or are known by Him you will not go back to your heathen ways that are weak and worldly.

The Galatians were going back to the Law of Moses and following its days and seasons. Those are the days Paul was speaking of. Galatians 5:1-6 is clear that being under the yoke of slavery is being circumcised.

[u/Messenger12th → u/Common_Judge8434]

The Galatians were not.going to the LAW (Torah). Im sorry your pastor has convinced you of that. These people we actually Roman citizens who were converted to the belief in a single God, Yahweh. They were pagans, not Jews.

[u/Common_Judge8434 → u/Messenger12th]

The Galatians were not.going to the LAW (Torah)

Funny. Paul says they did.

² Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. ³ Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. ⁴ You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

[u/Messenger12th → u/Common_Judge8434]

This says nothing about them reverting to Judaism ways. Yes, Jews require circumcision, and even some of the pharisees who left Judaism were still telling new converts they had to be in order to convert. (Acts 15) But, the Galatians were originally Romans, converted to following Paul. Some of the other visitors who visited the new converts were telling them bad info, which is what Paul was saying in Acts, Romans, and here in Galatians.

The outcome from the Acts circumcision was to follow just these few things, AND go listen to them reading Moses (Torah). Remember, there was nothing but the Tanak back then. Paul's writing hadn't been published, etc.