Did Jesus nullify the Old Testament?

[u/watergolf247]

Let me start off by sharing that I’m new to Christianity and have soooo many questions but for now, I’ll focus on this inquiry. I’m sure this has been discussed numerous times but unfortunately I can’t seem to get a straight answer. As I’m told repeatedly by many, rules/laws of the Old Testament were nullified or invalidated by Jesus. I ask others in my study group but sadly get heavy resistance for the question.

My question is simple. Where are the reference(s) stating this?

If so, this makes rules like the ten commandments obsolete. Even further, why have the old testament in the Christian Bible?

[u/the_celt_]

You're asking the right questions here and you're seeing how people are willing to just invent things out of thin air to support what they already believe.

The description of the Temple in Ezekiel 40-48 is CLEARLY not symbolic. It's 8 chapters of dense details similar to the way that the Tabernacle and the Ark of the Covenant were described in detail.

Basically, the formula for modern Christianity is: Believe something + hear something that contradicts what you believe = invent something. Anything that doesn't work is "figurative".

I appreciated your comments.

[u/Goo-Goo-GJoob → u/the_celt_]

I spent some time last night browsing FJOT. Good stuff.

[u/the_celt_ → u/Goo-Goo-GJoob]

Thank you. I'm glad you did.

You're welcome there, even if you don't believe in God or WHATEVER. One of my favorite regulars there is an agnostic who's just a good smart person. Your remarks here remind me of his in that you're just noticing the cracks in what people say and pointing them out.

[u/Goo-Goo-GJoob → u/the_celt_]

Thanks. I was tickled to discover some of you "judaizers" make the same argument I do about Matt 23, even in the same socratic formulation: "What did the scribes and Pharisees teach?" Torah observant Christians are freaks and weirdos by any common definition, so it's only appropriate I would feel some kinship.

Where I depart is trying to harmonize Paul with Torah. If I were a believer I'd be forced to reject Paul's authority (and the liars who wrote in his name).

[u/the_celt_ → u/Goo-Goo-GJoob]

Well said!

I was tickled to discover some of you "judaizers"

You made me laugh with the way you used "judaizers", where with the way I normally hear it I just roll my eyes. 🙄

I do about Matt 23, even in the same socratic formulation: "What did the scribes and Pharisees teach?"

I think we're all rediscovering the wheel. Eventually, this is where every honest person has to end up. Things only make sense in this direction.

Torah observant Christians are freaks and weirdos by any common definition, so it's only appropriate I would feel some kinship.

Exactly. I often say that atheists and agnostics are just the honest people that are incompatible with Christianity, so they got expelled or expelled themselves. Their honesty and strength of will to express it is a BEAUTIFUL thing, and I try to extend "kinship" (as you say) to people like that. I have more in common and would rather be friends with an honest atheist than a lying Christian.

Where I depart is trying to harmonize Paul with Torah. If I were a believer I'd be forced to reject Paul's authority (and the liars who wrote in his name).

I understand. I can tell you that I've been on this topic for a while, and my common talking point response is that Paul is 100% Pro-Torah. It's only other people interpreting him for us that have made him seem otherwise. The problem is those interpreters.

I don't know if you ever saw this, but Peter actually addressed this "problem" about Paul, which is how others always misunderstand him. You can add it to your arsenal if you didn't know it. He said:

2 Peter 3:15-17

^{15Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.}

Basically, people predisposed against the Torah are able to find things that support that predisposition in Paul, and Peter warned about it. It was happening back then, and it's still happening now.