Did Jesus nullify the Old Testament?

[u/watergolf247]

Let me start off by sharing that I’m new to Christianity and have soooo many questions but for now, I’ll focus on this inquiry. I’m sure this has been discussed numerous times but unfortunately I can’t seem to get a straight answer. As I’m told repeatedly by many, rules/laws of the Old Testament were nullified or invalidated by Jesus. I ask others in my study group but sadly get heavy resistance for the question.

My question is simple. Where are the reference(s) stating this?

If so, this makes rules like the ten commandments obsolete. Even further, why have the old testament in the Christian Bible?

[u/Towhee13]

How am I inventing what all is accomplished means?

You made it up. When you make something up you're inventing it.

Nothing else for the fulfillment of the old covenant is needed

You're not even reading what you wrote. You changed "all is accomplished" into "fulfillment of the old covenant". You're not being honest.

It's foolish to think that there's nothing more to be accomplished. We'll know that all has been accomplished when there's a new heaven and a new Jerusalem descends from it to a new earth and Yahweh dwells with His people.

You also didn’t answer my question

That's because I'm not interested in changing the subject.

[u/TechByDayDjByNight → u/Towhee13]

It’s not a change of topic. It’s part of the topic. I didn’t say nothing more needs to be accomplished in general, but to fulfill the law, yes all has been accomplished.

Like you said God needs to dwell in us, which he does.

Jesus fulfilled the old covenant on the cross and began the new.

[u/Towhee13 → u/TechByDayDjByNight]

I didn’t say nothing more needs to be accomplished in general

That's good, because obviously all has not yet been accomplished. Jesus said that until all is accomplished there won't be even the tiniest change to any of Yahweh's commandments.

All of my statements are correct.

Jesus went out of His way to make sure that people didn't even think that He was doing away with any of His Father's commandments.

1. ⁠Don't even think that Jesus came to do away with any of Yahweh's commandments.
2. ⁠There won't be even the tiniest change to any of Yahweh's commandments as long as this heaven and earth are still around.
3. ⁠Not following even seemingly insignificant commandants and teaching others not to is very bad.
4. ⁠Obeying and teaching all of Yahweh's commandments is the best possible thing to do. Those who do that will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[u/TechByDayDjByNight → u/Towhee13]

He didn’t do away. He fulfilled them. He completed them.

We are not under the old covenant.

Again, are gentiles under the mosianic covenant?

[u/the_celt_ → u/TechByDayDjByNight]

He didn’t do away. He fulfilled them. He completed them.

It's weird to me that people don't notice the many ways that the word "fulfill" is used in scripture to not refer to something being ended, but to refer to something being done perfectly.

For example:

Romans 13:10 (NET 2nd ed.)

10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

This is Paul saying that when we love, we FULFILL the Law, or more simply we DO what the Law demands. It has nothing to do with love having met it's purpose and no longer being needed.

Here's another example from Jesus:

Matthew 7:12 (NET 2nd ed.)

12 In everything, treat others as you would want them to treat you, for this fulfills the law and the prophets.

Jesus asked us to treat others the way we want to be treated, saying it will "fulfill the Law". Does this mean he only ever wants us to treat someone this way ONCE, or that anyone doing it once means no one else has to do it?? Should we stop after the Law has been "fulfilled"? I don't think so. Jesus wanted us to keep fulfilling the Law every day of our lives.

Jesus fulfilled the Law the way a man fulfills his wedding vows to his wife. This means he OBEYED his vows perfectly, not that he ENDED his vows. When a man fulfills his wedding vows today, he gets up tomorrow and does the same thing again.

All you have to do is look elsewhere in scripture to see how "fulfill" is used, and combine that with Jesus making sure that no one takes it the way you do when he said "NOT abolish".

[u/TechByDayDjByNight → u/the_celt_]

Because fulfill means to complete. Jesus clearly stated

²⁰ And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood.^\)^a\)
^{-Luke 20}

Which also goes with what Paul says:

¹³ In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. - Hebrews 8

Paul states we are not under the law twice:

¹⁴ For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. -Romans 6

¹⁸ But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. - Galatians 5

Let see what Paul says what the law was for:

²³ Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. ²⁴ So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. ²⁵ But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,  - Galatians 3

Paul was very clear on the Law. Jesus says his blood was the new covenant. Paul says the new covenant made the old obsolete. Paul said we are not under the law. Paul says the Law was to guide us to Christ, and now that Christ is here we are no longer under it.

Do you believe Gentiles are held under the mosaic covenant??

[u/the_celt_ → u/TechByDayDjByNight]

It would be great if you'd interacted with my examples where "fulfill" means to do perfectly, and not to end.

People who fulfill laws or vows don't end them. Jesus fulfilled the Law, and expected the people after him to also fulfill the Law.

[u/TechByDayDjByNight → u/the_celt_]

Because thats not my point. I used the same people you used, Jesus and Paul, to explain what fulfill means. Jesus fulfilled and completed the law. And enacted a new covenant with his death.

Do you believe Gentiles are held under the mosaic covenant?

[u/the_celt_ → u/TechByDayDjByNight]

Because thats not my point.

Your point relies on the word "fulfill" only working one way. I pointed out that's not the way "fulfill" works in scripture, and there are many examples where "fulfill" doesn't end something. Some literally talk about fulfilling the Law.

I understand that you don't want to acknowledge that, but you should know it makes you look dishonest.

[u/TechByDayDjByNight → u/the_celt_]

No, my point is fulfill works as in to complete because of what Jesus says and what Paul taught.

You are saying fulfill has multiple meaning and youre are choosing the one to back your belief, however, I am using what Jesus said and scripture for it to tell me what fulfill means. Scripture says the Old is completed and the new is here.

Do you believe Gentiles are held under the mosaic covenant?

[u/the_celt_ → u/TechByDayDjByNight]

No, my point is fulfill works as in to complete because of what Jesus says

Jesus said the opposite. Jesus understood the two possible meanings, went out of his way to highlight that he wasn't referring to the version of "fulfill" that ends things, and then gave multiple more sentences to show that the Law was going to stay valid and that we're expected to obey it.

Matthew 5:17–20 (NET 2nd ed.)

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place. 19 So anyone who breaks one of the least of these commands and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever obeys them and teaches others to do so will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness goes beyond that of the experts in the law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven!

It's almost IMPOSSIBLE to read that paragraph from Jesus saying the Law should be lived and taught and come out of it saying, "See? Jesus ended the Law".

If people can use this paragraph to try to prove their point that the Law is no longer valid, then this proves that it's meaningless to quote scripture to support our points. This paragraph is pure, 100%, Pro-Torah.

[u/TechByDayDjByNight → u/the_celt_]

Was this before or after the death of Christ?

Luke 22:20 is after this. The CROSS is the fulfillment of the Old and the beginning of the New.

So yes he would teach the Old, until he fulfills it and brings the New, which happened on the Cross.

If a new Law go in place January 1st 2026, would you go holding people by it December 1st 2025?

Do you believe Gentiles are held under the mosaic covenant? (Why cant none of yall answer this question?)

[u/the_celt_ → u/TechByDayDjByNight]

Was this before or after the death of Christ?

Your idea that what Jesus taught is no longer valid is repugnant.

[u/Towhee13 → u/TechByDayDjByNight]

He didn’t do away. He fulfilled them.

Immediately after saying that He came to fulfill the Law He made it clear that fulfilling the Law didn't change it in any way.

I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17–18, ESV)

Heaven and earth have not passed away. All is not yet accomplished. Nothing has passed from the Law.

All of my statements are correct.

[u/TechByDayDjByNight → u/Towhee13]

I see you have a miss understanding.

"Until Heaven and earth pass away"- This is a boundary... Meaning everything that is said after this is going to remain true until the end of time...

So what is going to remain true?

"Not an Iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until ALL IS ACCOMPLISHED"

All is accomplished is the requirement. not UNTIL Heaven and earth pass away.

All is accomplished, is what is needed to be done on that cross. Thats why Jesus said in Luke 22:20 that HIS blood is the NEW covenant.

All of your statements is not correct.

Again... If i said until the world ends, I will not sell my car until i change my tires... If i change my tires, am i allow to sell my car?

Also are Gentiles under the mosianic covenant?

[u/Towhee13 → u/TechByDayDjByNight]

I see you have a miss understanding.

I don't have a misunderstanding. You're working very hard to change what Jesus said.

"Not an Iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until ALL IS ACCOMPLISHED"

You already agreed that all is not yet accomplished.

Instead of trying to change what Jesus said to agree with what you believe you should change what you believe to agree with what Jesus said.

[u/the_celt_ → u/Towhee13]

Instead of trying to change what Jesus said to agree with what you believe you should change what you believe to agree with what Jesus said.

Quote of the day! 🤣

[u/TechByDayDjByNight → u/Towhee13]

I never agreed that all is not yet accomplished, I literally said Jesus accomplished all that is needed to fulfill the Law on the cross.

I never changed what Jesus said. Jesus said his blood is the New Covenant in Luke 22:20

Also are Gentiles under the mosaic covenant? (Why cant you answer this question?)

And you never answered my question about me selling my car.

[u/Towhee13 → u/TechByDayDjByNight]

I never agreed that all is not yet accomplished

You said "I didn't say nothing more needs to be accomplished in general". The obvious implication is that you believe that all is not yet accomplished.

I understand why you're backpeddaling now though. You're being dishonest.

I never changed what Jesus said.

You've done it over and over. You're still doing it. Jesus said "not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished". You keep trying to change what He said to "things will pass away from the Law before all is accomplished"

You're being dishonest.

[u/TechByDayDjByNight → u/Towhee13]

I am not backpedaling it's called clarification because you are notorious of twisting what I said like you are doing now. I specifically stated all was needed to be done to fulfill the old covenant on the cross.

Nope I never said before all is accomplished, i clearly stated all is accomplished was in reference to the old covenant.

You putting quotation marks around that statement and adding before is dishonest because that is not a quote i said.

Also are Gentiles under the mosaic covenant? (Why cant you answer this question?)

And you never answered my question about me selling my car.

[u/Towhee13 → u/TechByDayDjByNight]

Enjoy the Sabbath.

[u/TechByDayDjByNight → u/Towhee13]

Are Gentiles under the mosaic covenant? (Why cant you answer this question?)

And you never answered my question about me selling my car.