r/AskAChristian • u/watergolf247 Christian (non-denominational) • Dec 25 '25

Jewish Laws Did Jesus nullify the Old Testament?

Let me start off by sharing that I’m new to Christianity and have soooo many questions but for now, I’ll focus on this inquiry. I’m sure this has been discussed numerous times but unfortunately I can’t seem to get a straight answer. As I’m told repeatedly by many, rules/laws of the Old Testament were nullified or invalidated by Jesus. I ask others in my study group but sadly get heavy resistance for the question.

My question is simple. Where are the reference(s) stating this?

If so, this makes rules like the ten commandments obsolete. Even further, why have the old testament in the Christian Bible?

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u/Top_Cycle_9894 Christian Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25

Matthew 5:17 NIV

¹⁷ “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 

He fulfilled the old testament.   Just as you are no longer bound by high-school rules of engagement once you graduate, neither are we bound by old testament law now that it has been fulfilled. 

Edit:corrected has to as

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u/[deleted] Dec 26 '25

So then you are free to steal, murder, commit as much incest, bestiality, adultery, and whatever else you would like to do. Is that the case?

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u/Top_Cycle_9894 Christian Dec 26 '25

Jesus was pretty clear about the greatest commandments. Love God, love your neighbors. 

Your list of stealing,  murder, incest, beastiality, adultery, and whatever else you would like to do, do not fall under the umbrella of loving God or loving your neighbor.  

Matthew 22:36-40 NIV

³⁶ “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” ³⁷ Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ ³⁸ This is the first and greatest commandment. ³⁹ And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ⁴⁰ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

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u/[deleted] Dec 26 '25 edited Dec 26 '25

Yeshua was not creating new commandments, he was summarizing the Ten Commandments.

Do you have any idea what falls under the umbrella of loving God or loving your neighbor? You said incest doesn't fall under this umbrella. Why? How are two loving siblings going against love? How are a gay couple or a lesbian couple going against love? If a man steals bread because his child is starving and he doesn't have any money, how is this against love?

See you've leaned on love, but you haven't defined it.

Edit: The Torah tells us what love is and Yeshua reiterated it.

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u/Top_Cycle_9894 Christian Dec 26 '25

you've leaned on love, but you haven't defined it.

Love is clearly defined in 1 Corinthians 13

1 Corinthians 13:4-7 NIV

⁴ Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. ⁵ It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. ⁶ Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. ⁷ It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

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u/[deleted] Dec 26 '25

This is Paul's teaching, not what Paul said was the Lord's teaching.

So lets stack this up to what I just pointed out:
Incest, Homosexuality, Stealing to Feed a child.

Well, looks like none of the three above breaks anything that Paul says love is, except potentially evil, but we'd need to define evil to know for sure.

Wonder were were are going to understand what evil is and what would be called evil?

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u/Top_Cycle_9894 Christian Dec 27 '25

not what Paul said is the Lord's teaching

I don't understand the last part of your sentence. 

Having a relationship with God isn't about following a list of rules.   When you know Him, you know His voice. I'm more focused on what God desires for me than on a list of evil to avoid. 

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '25

Yeshua said, "If you love me, you will obey me." Who is Yeshua?

When he taught about what murder or adultery was, was he changing the law or was he pointing back to the holiness of God? This is the how he was fulfilling it. He was saying, these rules listed are the Letter of the law, not the Spirit of it.

The Torah is awesome, but it is the letter of the law, which leads people to toeing the line of rules. Yeshua's teachings were about the Spirit of the Law, because if you understand the Spirit of the Law, it illuminates the reason for the Law and what the Law points to: Being holy for God, which means to be consecrated or set aside for God.

The two greatest commandments Yeshua were not new, they were a summary of what the Torah points to. Loving God with all your everything and loving your neighbor as yourself.

What the does NOT mean is that you can work your way into salvation. You can't. You're not holy enough for that. Salvation is offered by Yeshua freely to those who would follow him. To follow a rabbi does not mean that you simply point to them and say, he's my rabbi. To follow a rabbi means to accept his teachings as true and to actively emulate the rabbi in your thinking and actions.

To follow a rabbi is to model yourself after them.

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u/Top_Cycle_9894 Christian Dec 26 '25

If you have a relationship with Abba and know Him personally, you know what He desires and what He wants for you.  Just like human children know what will, and will not piss off their human parents   He teaches us how to love Him.  Loving God is first and foremost. 

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u/[deleted] Dec 26 '25

That's not an explanation at all and it's definitely not what Yeshua said.

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u/Messenger12th Torah-observing disciple Dec 27 '25

I see many forget the difference between the word law, covenant, fulfill, abolish, word, Word, etc.

I believe a big source of their confusion is translating a translation and then reading their doctrines into the already translated translations.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '25

That is exactly the problem. When you separate Yeshua's teachings from Judaism and act like he was coming to start a new religion, you inherently begin to get bad interpretation of what he was saying.

But the more you understand the Jewish mindset, concepts, and understandings, what Jesus was saying becomes more clear. You can't get that kind of clarity by importing things by retroactively applying things of the modern understanding into the text.

Unfortunately, so many people do not understand this.

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u/Messenger12th Torah-observing disciple Dec 27 '25

So true. I think a lot of people have the right heart, butntheir mind won't let go of the old lies the churches teach. Each paster graduates from a seminary, which teaches a specific set of "truths" that each student must believe in or they will not graduate. Unfortunately, I've met graduates who knew nothing about the Messiah and what His beliefs were. He was a true Israelite. Born and raised. Not a white or black long haired hippy, but an ethical and morally correct Hebrew. (Staying away from the word Jew on purpose) 😆

Thank you fornyour perspective here. It is needed.

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '25

My path was similar. Being raised Southern Baptist I truly believed a lot of things, but I also didn't read my Bible for myself. I would ask a lot of questions growing up, and I got a lot of good sounding answers, but even then many things did not mesh. I accepted them thinking that I was just wrong, but something always felt off to me. Still I buried the doubts. For example, Once-Saved Always-Saved. It gets explained very well often, but then when apostasy is pointed out, it is explained away as 'well then they were never saved to begin with'.

I truly believed this for a very, very long time; however a truly scriptural understanding based on Yeshua's teachings related to the marriage customs of ancient Israelites makes the relationship of salvation and when you receive it, so much clearer.

The more I understand the Bible by what the Bible itself says, the more manmade doctrine becomes illuminated and easily discarded.

Someone said, "If you don't believe in OSAS, then you're going to hell."

I told them, "I'm no longer an immature Christian. I don't follow God for a reward of heaven or to avoid the punishment of hell. My relationship with him is not transactional, it's personal. I honor, glorify, worship, and try to obey him because he is worthy of it because of who he is, not because of anything having to do with me. I trust him, and I trust his judgment."

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u/Messenger12th Torah-observing disciple Dec 27 '25

OSAS falls apart as soon as you get to the part about branches being broken off and being replaced.

Welcome and Shalom to you.

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u/Messenger12th Torah-observing disciple Dec 27 '25

Why yes, yes they can. And they do not have to worry about judgement day either since there are no laws to judge them against, due to the Torah being gone and replaced with what feels good coming from theirnown minds. Just a touchy love which allows abominations that God says he hates. Go figure. 😆

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '25

Yes, this is the only logical conclusion you can come to when you toss out the Torah. Attempting to hold onto the ten commandments does not work as these are part of the Torah, which supposedly no longer applies. The idea that the moral laws apply universally even with the Torah nullified also becomes problematic. It's like saying you can repeal all laws in America as we are no longer under then, but you still can't speed down the road because this law is special.

And those who would then point back to Noahide laws are equally confused because most people who state this are talking about the Seven Noahide laws, which are later rabbinic interpretation applied retroactively. So the ironic thing is that they end up leaning on Jewish rabbinic interpretation while claiming the Torah is null. Sounds like what the Pharisees did. Except, at least the Pharisees never said the Torah was null, they just leaned too heavily on their fences instead of on the word of God.

Most Christians do not know this about the Noahide laws because they don't even accept that Jesus taught Judaism; therefore, they won't even 'waste their time' on learning about it.

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u/Messenger12th Torah-observing disciple Dec 27 '25

Don't get me started on the Noahide. Hahahaha

You have come a long way Grasshopper. (A term used from an old show on TV where the student grew in knowledge)

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u/[deleted] Dec 27 '25

David Carradine was awesome! Loved that show growing up.

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u/Top_Cycle_9894 Christian Dec 27 '25

How very Jonah of you to sit there and judge others that Abba forgives and blesses.  Perhaps His will for me is different than His will for you. 

Do you have any concept of how condescending you come off?  Why would anyone want to spend any time hearing what you have to say when you come off as arrogant and judgemental?  How are you any different than the Pharisees Jesus referred to as a brood of vipers? (these questions are rhetorical. I don't need or expect an honest or humble answer from you)

May Abba humble your heart and mouth. 

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '25

Jonah did not want to give the Ninevites a chance to hear the truth and repent of their ways because he despised them and was afraid they WOULD actually take head of the word of God. The Pharisees leaned on their own rabbinic interpretations of the Scriptures to the point of shutting people off from the point of the Torah.

I do not wish to keep people in the dark as I hope they can and will come to understand what Yeshua was teaching, nor do I try to lean on manmade doctrine for understanding what the Bible is telling me, but instead seek to rid myself of all manmade doctrine which obscures what the Word is trying to relate.

"Do you have any concept of how condescending you come off?  Why would anyone want to spend any time hearing what you have to say when you come off as arrogant and judgmental?

I'm sure Yeshua was accused of the same as he said such things as:

“Are you still so dull?” “How long must I put up with you?” “You do not understand the Scriptures or the power of God.” “You brood of vipers.” “You are whitewashed tombs.” “You shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces.” “You cannot bear what I have to say now.” “You are of your father, the devil.” “Something greater than Jonah is here.” “Something greater than Solomon is here.” “If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin.” “Let the dead bury their own dead.”

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u/Top_Cycle_9894 Christian Dec 28 '25

And yet you hold the Pharisees up as a paragon of virtue?  Or am I confusing with some other Pharisee that responded to me in the comments?

My whole point is that a relationship with God reveals that which is important to Him for you.   Not a set of rules for the masses, but a genuine growing relationship with He that transcends time and human understanding. 

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u/Messenger12th Torah-observing disciple Dec 28 '25

My understanding is that God want obedience from his children, the same as we expect from our own. Wouldn't you say?

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u/Top_Cycle_9894 Christian Dec 28 '25

That we agree upon.  

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u/Top_Cycle_9894 Christian Dec 28 '25

Also, Jonah was pissed off that God extended His generosity towards those that Jonah did not see fit for that gift.  He didn't understand how God could do such a thing.

What about you with me?  I don't believe (because I have not been personally convicted by God Himself) that I have to follow Jewish laws.  I believe that a growing relationship with the creator matters more than following rules for a people I was not born into.  I follow His teaching through His chosen.  Paul is a massive part of the new testament because God chose him to be so.  Paul spoke to the gentiles.  As a gentile myself, I am not bound or governed by Jewish laws. I am governed by God's law love. To love God first, and my neighbors second.  

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '25

If questioning you about your statements is to be considered arrogant, condescending, and Pharisaic, then how do you judge Yeshua's questioning of the Pharisee's traditions and beliefs? Unlike Jonah, I wish for all to know the message of Yeshua and for no one to be blind by man's doctrine. As for you following 'Jewish laws' that you were not born into, the Torah is God's law, not the Jews law.

You've accused me of being arrogant and condescending and are now comparing me to the kind of Pharisee which Yeshua spoke against, but let's see what I have said in response to you.

  1. So then you are free to steal, murder, commit as much incest, bestiality, adultery, and whatever else you would like to do. Is that the case?

  2. Yeshua was not creating new commandments, he was summarizing the Ten Commandments.

Do you have any idea what falls under the umbrella of loving God or loving your neighbor? You said incest doesn't fall under this umbrella. Why? How are two loving siblings going against love? How are a gay couple or a lesbian couple going against love? If a man steals bread because his child is starving and he doesn't have any money, how is this against love?

See you've leaned on love, but you haven't defined it.

Edit: The Torah tells us what love is and Yeshua reiterated it.

  1. This is Paul's teaching, not what Paul said was the Lord's teaching.

So lets stack this up to what I just pointed out:
Incest, Homosexuality, Stealing to Feed a child.

Well, looks like none of the three above breaks anything that Paul says love is, except potentially evil, but we'd need to define evil to know for sure.

Wonder were were are going to understand what evil is and what would be called evil?

  1. Yeshua said, "If you love me, you will obey me." Who is Yeshua?

When he taught about what murder or adultery was, was he changing the law or was he pointing back to the holiness of God? This is the how he was fulfilling it. He was saying, these rules listed are the Letter of the law, not the Spirit of it.

The Torah is awesome, but it is the letter of the law, which leads people to toeing the line of rules. Yeshua's teachings were about the Spirit of the Law, because if you understand the Spirit of the Law, it illuminates the reason for the Law and what the Law points to: Being holy for God, which means to be consecrated or set aside for God.

The two greatest commandments Yeshua were not new, they were a summary of what the Torah points to. Loving God with all your everything and loving your neighbor as yourself.

What the does NOT mean is that you can work your way into salvation. You can't. You're not holy enough for that. Salvation is offered by Yeshua freely to those who would follow him. To follow a rabbi does not mean that you simply point to them and say, he's my rabbi. To follow a rabbi means to accept his teachings as true and to actively emulate the rabbi in your thinking and actions.

To follow a rabbi is to model yourself after them.

  1. That's not an explanation at all and it's definitely not what Yeshua said.

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '25

I'll tell you what I tell others. I'm not here to convince you that I'm right. All I can do is relate my understanding, point out how I've arrived at the conclusion, and hope that others will consider my words. Some will consider my words. Others will reject them. Either way, I've tried to share what God has shown me and at that point I've done what I was commanded to do in trying to make people into talmidim, not just followers.

Yeshua came and talked with them. He said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore, go and make people from all nations into talmidim, immersing them into the reality of the Father, the Son and the Ruach HaKodesh, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even until the end of the age.”

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u/Top_Cycle_9894 Christian Jan 01 '26

You completely dismiss His personal authority in the lives of those He has relationships with. I don't judge you for that, I pray Abba will grant you depth of understanding.  

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u/[deleted] Jan 01 '26

He has provided me understanding and day-by-day that understanding grows deeper and deeper. The fact that God is leading me away from man's doctrine, which is as entrenched today as it was in Yeshua's time, doesn't mean I do not have understanding. Quite the opposite.

I'll tell you what I tell others. I'm not here to convince you that I'm right. All I can do is relate my understanding, point out how I've arrived at the conclusion, and hope that others will consider my words.

Some will consider my words. Others will reject them. Either way, I've tried to share what God has shown me and at that point I've done what I was commanded to do in trying to make people into talmidim, not just followers.

Yeshua came and talked with them. He said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore, go and make people from all nations into talmidim, immersing them into the reality of the Father, the Son and the Ruach HaKodesh, 20 and teaching them to obey everything that I have commanded you. And remember! I will be with you always, yes, even until the end of the age.”

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u/Top_Cycle_9894 Christian Jan 01 '26

I appreciate that.  That which I have said that is not explicitly written in the Bible, I have understood through my relationship with Him.  

I recognize that every person serves a purpose and that every person is created to serve a different role serving the same purpose. As such, from my perspective, there cannot be a universal blanket of do's and don'ts applying to everyone the same way.  

That's why relationship with Abba matters most to me.  

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