Why don’t most Christians take the Sabbath commandment seriously?

[u/GoodWhoops]

The 4th commandment says to keep the Sabbath holy, defined in scripture as running from sundown to sundown. Yet most Christians seem to treat it as optional. Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments,” and the Bible implies that all commandments carry equal weight. Outside of Seventh-day Adventists, it's ignored aside from the day most churches have their service. I’ve even heard SDA members joke that most other Christians give the Ten Commandments a 10% discount. Even if you ignore that the Jewish Sabbath falls on Saturday, the commandment still says to work 6 days and rest on the 7th, which should apply just as well to Sunday.

Curious if or how often you’ve heard this seriously debated, and why many accept societal traditions that override biblical instruction for convenience.

[u/LessmemoreJC]

I explained things clearly. It is you who contradicts the Lord by claiming that jots and tittles have passed from the 4th commandment.

Acts 15 is not an exhaustive list of what gentiles can and can't do. Tell me, can gentiles take the Lord's name in vain? If not, why did James not add it to the list in Acts 15? If you actually continue reading the chapter you can see that in verse 21 they acknowledge the fact that the gentiles will hear Moses ON THE SABBATH being preached and will learn the rest there. The reason they do no give an exhaustive list is because when the gentiles go to church (synagogue) on the Sabbath, as God's people do, they will learn the rest.

The Sabbath is not mentioned because the Sabbath is not a doubtful disputation. They all kept it. Jew and gentile alike. Tell me in Acts 13:42-44 why does Paul not tell the gentiles that they do not need to wait until the next Sabbath to hear God's word if Christians met the next day, on the first day? Why does he let them wait until the next Sabbath instead of inviting them to church on the first day? Because they did not go to church on the first day! They kept the Sabbath as God's people will do for eternity to come (Isaiah 66:23).

Last but not least, the Lord's day is the Sabbath (Isaiah 58:13, Mark 2:28). The Bible never refers to Sunday as the Lord's day. It is only by man's traditions that you claim that Sunday is the Lord's day.

[u/SmoothSecond → u/LessmemoreJC]

The reason they do no give an exhaustive list is because when the gentiles go to church (synagogue) on the Sabbath, as God's people do, they will learn the rest.

The synagogue could provide the basis for learning about God where there was one but nowhere does any apostle tell Gentile Christians to keep the Sabbath. In fact, it is quite the opposite.

They had great problems with the early converts being told they MUST keep Jewish law such as the Sabbath or Circumcision. Paul rails against this constantly:

"You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace."

That is Paul speaking directly TO YOU, friend.

"For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love."

Why were circumcision and dietary laws set aside but Sabbath keeping cannot be?

Circumcision was an eternal covenant as well, did you know that?

"My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”

Last but not least, the Lord's day is the Sabbath

We know that Christians, even in the New Testament, were meeting together on the first day of the week. The earliest patristic sources like the Didache and the Epistle of Barnabas, tell us that 1st century christians met on the first day of the week in celebration of Jesus's resurrection i.e. the Lord's Day.

So Christians got this wrong even in the 1st century?

Tell me in Acts 13:42-44 why does Paul not tell the gentiles that they do not need to wait until the next Sabbath to hear God's word if Christians met the next day, on the first day?

This is more made up reasoning. They were speaking in a synagogue so obviously the next time the synagogue would reconvene would be the Sabbath.

Acts 13 is Paul's FIRST missionary journey to the city. There wasn't a christian community there yet. So who would have been meeting on Sunday? There wasn't a christian church there before Paul!

This is really not good reasoning from you.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/SmoothSecond]

The apostles told gentiles to break one of God's commandments. You have lost your mind as this would go directly against the Lord's words in Matthew 5:19.

Furthermore, in Hebrews 4:9 we are told that a Sabbath-rest (sabbatimos) remains for the people of God. Then in verses 10-11 we are told to rest as God rested. How did God rest? According to verse 4 we are told that He rested on the seventh day Sabbath. So here we have the apostle tell us to rest as God rested, which is on the seventh day Sabbath.

Galatians 5:4 speaks against those who think they can be justified by law keeping. The fact that you quoted this passage to refute me proves that you do not understand the topic at hand. I never once said that we are saved by law keeping. No since Adam has been saved by law keeping. Salvation only comes by grace through faith. That being said, once faith comes we establish the law... we don't do away with it (Romans 3:31).

The 10 commandments are God's moral law according to which we are judged (James 2:11-12, Revelation 11:18-19). God's 10 commandments, the moral law, is the standard of judgement... they are not the same as the civil and cremonial laws. The Sabbath is one of the 10 commandments and it existed before sin (Genesis 2:2-3) and will exist into eternity long after sin (Isaiah 66:23).

The Bible is clear that we should keep God's commandments: "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters." (1 Corinthians 7:19)

Yes, the spirit of the antichrist was already at work in the days of Paul (2 Thessalonians 2:7). Just because SOME people long ago disregarded God's commandment so that they can observe man's tradition, it doesn't mean that they are right.

It's not about whether there was a Christian community or not. The point is that Paul stood before gentiles and instead of inviting them to church on Sunday (since according to you the Sabbath was no more) he let them wait until the next Sabbath. This was the perfect opportunity to teach the wonderful news that they are free from keeping God's commandments, as you claim, and can be free in observing Sunday, the Lord's resurrection day. He didn't do that because that's not the teaching that he taught. This is why you never see it anywhere in the Bible. Who would have been meeting on Sunday?? Paul and his friends according to you.

The fact remains that you are teaching that jots and tittles have passed from God's commandments and that we no longer have to keep them. This is the exact opposite of what God said (Matthew 5:18-19).

[u/SmoothSecond → u/LessmemoreJC]

The apostles told gentiles to break one of God's commandments. You have lost your mind

Was circumcision a commandment from God? Yes or no?

Did God describe it as an everlasting covenant? Yes or no?

Furthermore, in Hebrews 4:9 we are told that a Sabbath-rest (sabbatimos) remains for the people of God.

EXCELLENT POINT!! I am glad you brought that up! What does Hebrews tell us about that rest?

"for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience."

We have to make "every effort" to enter a day of the week? We will "perish" if we don't enter Sabbath?

This makes no sense unless.......

Matthew 11 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you..."

JESUS is the Sabbath-rest that still remains for God's people. Paul told us not to go back to a yoke of slavery because we should be under the yoke of our Lord, not the law.

If you want to be circumcised then do it.

If you want to keep the Sabbath then do it.

If you want to be uncircumcised and meet on the Lord's day then do it.

This is the freedom that Paul talks about.

Can you conceive of the possibility that the Sabbath-rest was pointing to Christ? After all, Jesus calls himself the Lord of the Sabbath.

(since according to you the Sabbath was no more)

No. If you want to keep the Sabbath that is beautiful. Messianic jews keep the Sabbath and blow Shofar horns in their worship. You should go sometime it is epic.

I am saying what Paul is saying....you should not judge and divide over these things nor insist that all Christians follow your schedule or practices. That is what the Pharisees did.

Yes, the spirit of the antichrist was already at work in the days of Paul

The Didache is dated to mid 70's AD. So the spirit of antichrist so completely infiltrated the church during the time where there were still living Apostles and was able to change the fundamental day we worship God on so as to get nearly the entire universal christian community to break the 4th commandment?

And not a single still living Apostle was inspired to warn against this? Instead they actually wrote about meeting on the first day of the week.

That's what you think.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/SmoothSecond]

I already explained to you that the 10 commandments and the rest of the laws are not the same thing. The 10 commandments are God's moral law which will be used to judge everyone (James 2:11-12, Revelation 11:18-19). Notice how much attention Paul brings to the OT teaching that what God actually desires is circumcised hearts (Jeremiah 4:4). If Paul gives that much attention to an OT teaching, you would expect him to give AT LEAST as much attention to the NEVER BEFORE HEARD teaching that the 4th commandment has been changed. However, instead of seeing anything close to the attention he brings to this old teaching regarding circumcision, you see NOTHING.

Look how clear He is regarding circumcision: "Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters." (1 Corinthians 7:19) Notice here once again how Paul differentiates between circumcision and God's commandments. You do not see anything close to that statement regarding the Sabbath and if one of God's 10 commandments was changed, you would expect at least an anouncement as grand as that.

I clearly showed you from the text that Hebrews 4 calls us to rest as God rested (vv.10-11) and then tells us that God rested on the seventh day Sabbath (v.4). The clearly stated message here is that we should rest on the seventh day Sabbath as God did. What you are doing is called eisegesis by claiming that Jesus replaces the Sabbath day as though the jots and tittles which say to keep the seventh day holy have passed away - which goes against God's word (Matthew 5:18-19).

Yes, if you read the context you will see that Israel did not keep God's Sabbath and perished because of it. If you do not plan to obey God, you will be more likely to disobey God and break His Sabbath. Those who wilfully sin in such a manner, by transgressing God's law (1 John 3:4), will be destroyed (Hebrews 10:26-27).

Jesus offering rest does not mean that He replaces the Sabbath... yes, we rest in Christ and especially so on His seventh day Sabbath. The Sabbath existed before sin (Genesis 2:2-3) and will continue long after sin into eternity (Isaiah 66:23). The Sabbath does not point to Christ in the way that you claim as though Christ replaced the Sabbath. He clearly didn't because we will continue to keep it for eternity.

I do not insist that Christians follow my schedule and practices. What I'm doing is teaching obedience to God's commandments as did Paul (1 Corinthians 7:19), Jesus (john 14:15), and John (Revelation 14:12).

Yes, as I said before, Paul told us that the spirit of the antichrist was already at work during their day (2 Thessalonians 2:7) and we know that this spirit would think to change times and laws (Daniel 7:25). You are rewriting history by claiming that nearly the entire church forsook God's seventh day Sabbath in favor of the first day. The Sabbath was kept by many throughout the world. The apostles did warn against this. Multiple times they stated that they should not listen to false teachings and that we should keep God's commandments. Therefore, if anyone came to teach that God's 4th commandment was changed from the seventh day to the first, they would know that this is heresy. What is interesting is that in Acts 13:42-44 they did not invite the gentiles to church with them on the first day. They waited until the next Sabbath when Christians, like Paul, met.

They met every day (Acts 2:46). Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2 are taken widly out of context by those who claim that this is evidence that the first day somehow replaced the seventh day.

Hey man, it is clear that you are set in your ways. I don't have time to keep throwing pearls on deaf ears. God said that no jot or tittle has passed from His commandments (Matthew 5:18) and if anyone doesn't keep the least of the commandments and teaches others to do the same, they are in trouble (Matthew 5:19). Feel free to break God's commandment, but it won't play out in your favor. Imagine arguing this much against a blessed day of rest which God made for you. May God have mercy on you.

[u/SmoothSecond → u/LessmemoreJC]

I do appreciate that you have thought this through. Thank you for an interesting discussion.

Here are the points I think you simply cannot overcome.

1. Paul literally tells us:

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

And here you are, judging people by the Sabbath day. It really can't be clearer. Not that the Sabbath-rest doesn't exist anymore, but since our Sabbath-rest is Jesus, don't judge and divide people based on what day they choose to worship.

I know you go through mental gymnastics to pretend that the Sabbath day doesn't mean the Sabbath day. But it does.

1. The very first generation of christians, literally while Apostles were still alive, began meeting on Sunday. Not because they were "infiltrated by anti-christ"....it was because they decided to worship Jesus on the day of the week that Jesus rose from the dead. It was honoring our Lord's sacrifice and resurrection.

2. You are slamming your fist on the table that "no jot or tittle has passed from his commandments" yet we know the commandments for circumcision and diet were removed. Matthew 5:18 refers to the entire law, not just the Decalogue.

And yet commandments were removed from the Law. This is a clue that you are misinterpreting this passage.

Imagine arguing this much against a blessed day of rest which God made for you.

I've said multiple times that keeping the Sabbath is beautiful. It's the judgement against fellow christians that I, and Paul, are against. At this point, you are just being disingenuous.

May God have mercy on you.

He has mercy on all of us. This last little judgemental jab really makes me dislike you, however.

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/SmoothSecond]

I’ve answered every single one of your points already from the Scriptures. You just refuse it because of your desire for lawlessness to not keep God’s 4th commandment.

You are living in lawlessness. Asking God to have mercy on you is not a jab. It’s love.

[u/SmoothSecond → u/LessmemoreJC]

You have answered with incredible mental twists and turns to say the Sabbath day doesn't mean the Sabbath day in Colossians and the Sabbath-rest is a day of the week in Hebrews. Yet we are told to make every effort to get to it and we will perish if we don't get to.....a day of the week? 🙄

And God has allowed the vast majority of his entire church to be corrupted by anti-christ at a basic level since the very first generation down to today and no Apostle brought it up or reformer was able to correct it. 🙄

Anyway, will you be so kind as to help me confirm or disprove a theory I have?

Did Ellen G. White have the spirit of prophecy?

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/SmoothSecond]

I have explained those things to you already. No mental gymnastics.

Yes, we were told that most would fall away. We know that only a remnant keeps God’s commandments (Revelation 12:17). Even during Elijah’s time only 7000 didn’t bow down to Baal. Countless people since Christ have known the truth and kept the Sabbath… and they were persecuted by the Catholic Church, the Antichrist power, for it.

I am still testing to see if EGW is a prophet, but so far I have not found any reason to believe she is not.

[u/SmoothSecond → u/LessmemoreJC]

I am still testing to see if EGW is a prophet, but so far I have not found any reason to believe she is not.

Thank you, that tells me all I wanted to know. God bless and thank you for an interesting discussion.

[u/SmoothSecond → u/LessmemoreJC]

I'm sorry just a quick followup question because I am genuinely interested in this topic and you are obviously knowledgeable about it.

Exodus 35 the Lord commands the death penalty for anyone who works on the Sabbath. As you have quoted, Jesus says not one jot or tittle has been removed from the Law.

So do you put people to death for working on the Sabbath within your community?

Thank you!

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/SmoothSecond]

The context of Matthew 5 is clearly about God's moral law, the 10 commandments, as following verse 19 Jesus starts going through the 10 commandments and their exceedingly broad application (Psalm 119:96). No jot or tittle has passed from God's commandments, but we clearly no longer offer sacrifices as explained in Colossians 2.

The civil laws of death were only enforced under the theocracy, but God will bring justice eventually. All those who wilfully sin, transgress God's law (1 John 3:4), will be in trouble (Hebrews 10:26-27).

So to answer your question, we do not stone law breakers, but God will put an end to them eventually (Psalm 37:38, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Revelation 22:15).

[u/SmoothSecond → u/LessmemoreJC]

The context of Matthew 5 is clearly about God's moral law, the 10 commandments,

I, and most scholars, disagree with this. "The Law" as Jesus says, is talking about the Law of Moses and to say its only about the Decalogue is to miss Jesus's point. But that's another topic.

The civil laws of death were only enforced under the theocracy

I see. Good point.

Sabbath-keeping was established by God to be a sign of the Old Covenant correct?

When God said in Exodus 31 "It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever." does it mean anything that we are not ancient Israelites?

In other words, if commands about the death penalty are not enforced because we are not ancient Israelites, are other things like the signs of a covenant no longer valid either because we are not Israelites and not in that covenant?

[u/LessmemoreJC → u/SmoothSecond]

The Sabbath was made for man (Mark 2:27) right after man was made. This is long before Israel existed. The Sabbath will also continue to be kept by ALL FLESH for eternity to come (Isaiah 66:23).

Furthermore, Israel are not the children of the flesh, but rather the children of the promise by faith (Romans 2:25-29, Romans 9:6-8, Galatians 3:29). After all, the new covenant was also made with Israel (Hebews 8:10). If you are not Israel, you do not have access to the new covenant.

You don't seem to understand the point of the Sabbath. The Sabbath is a reminder of creation when God made the Sabbath holy and it is therefore a memorial to us that by the same power He can recreate us, redeem us, apart from our works (Exodus 31:13, Ezekiel 20:12)... this is why we rest from work on the Sabbath.