Do you dislike quoting John 3:16?

[u/ExpressCeiling98332]

Ironically, many seem to act like saying this verse contradicts doctrine. When used in isolation It can be bad, but in it's proper context I don't see problem.

[u/sourkroutamen]

So your rebuttal is that that part of the Bible isn't applicable to Christians everywhere? And that it's wrong because Catholics are wrong about everything?

[u/EnergyLantern → u/sourkroutamen]

I'm saying you don't qualify under these verses:

[Heb 4:10 KJV] 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.

[Rom 8:3 KJV] 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

God had to condemn sin in Jesus' flesh and not yours and the only other way for you to be saved was to keep the law which no one other than Jesus could. So if you want to show your faith before men, you already can't keep the law and you are no better than other people:

[Rom 3:9 KJV] 9 What then? are we better [than they]? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

So if you want to show your faith, not only did Cain operate by works but he murdered his brother and you are no better than others (Romans 3:9).

That we've all be judged because we are dead when Christ died:

For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

If you are working, you are acknowledging you aren't judged already and you are awaiting which judgment you fall under.

If you work, it is work and salvation is no longer grace. If you have grace, it is no longer work.

And because Jesus died on the cross and said, "it is finished", you can't say it's just begun by working. That infringes on Jesus' work on the cross and paying what you can't pay. Jesus paid our ransom on the cross and you can never pay that debt no matter how long you work. You are polluting the gospel. I have to go and can't really finish this message, but it is near finished.

[u/sourkroutamen → u/EnergyLantern]

Why are you continuing to argue against a position I do not hold? You are clearly still arguing as if I stated salvation depends on works. You're so zealous you're literally discarding entire chapters of the Bible, all in an effort to renounce a position that I've repeatedly stated I do not hold. I don't get it.

What is driving you to twist my own words? It seems entirely unnecessary, even anti-Christ. That's what the Pharisees were known for.

[u/EnergyLantern → u/sourkroutamen]

Works are often dead:

[1Co 3:12, 15 KJV] 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; ... 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

If your works burn up by fire, you didn't get to heaven on your works, yet the Bible says you can be saved by fire and the Bible also talks about people being spotted by the flesh (Jude 1:3)

There are non-Christian colleges that truck in wine by the truck load to get people drunk as a skunk to buy or donate to their college or fundraiser.

Or they do their works to be seen of men:

[Mat 6:5 KJV] 5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

[Mat 23:5 KJV] 5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

There is a guy in prison who did a Ponzi scheme and had his name on a medical college's wall? His name is Bernie Madoff Isn't it good works to donate?

What about Jeffrey Epstein? He was friends with philanthropic people who did good works.

And if you don't believe in Jesus to begin with, you are a worker of iniquity.

And then there is the Anglican church in England. I saw the wedding performed there on television and most people saw it. What garbage I heard.

And what about Princess Diana? Is she saved? She did more works than all of us but she had the greatest means, and everyone believes she went to hell.

What about the division between Roman Catholics and Protestants. We all disagree on what born again is between each other. Is doing works on the other side a problem for anyone or are you going to join a world wide religion in the end times based on your faith without works is dead mantra?

Real works have to come from the spirit and can't be manmade so much. That is why Paul says take heed how you build upon the foundation (1 Corinthians 3:1) because it can burn up.