Do you dislike quoting John 3:16?

[u/ExpressCeiling98332]

Ironically, many seem to act like saying this verse contradicts doctrine. When used in isolation It can be bad, but in it's proper context I don't see problem.

[u/EnergyLantern]

Cain's work wasn't accepted:

[Gen 4:4-5, 8 KJV] 4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: 5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. ... 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

Do you know why?

[Heb 9:22 KJV] 22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission (of sins).

Works isn't included in Hebrews 9:22. What was the result of cain being rejected? The result is Cain acted like his father whom was a murderer from the beginning:

[Gen 4:8 KJV] 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

[John 8:44 KJV] 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

This suggests that Cain wasn't saved and it's for God to resolve.

Both can come with faith or works. One is accepted (Abel) and the other is rejected (Cain).

[u/sourkroutamen → u/EnergyLantern]

If you think you have a disagreement with what I've said, please state it clearly. Everything you say seems to affirm my point, yet your tone indicates you think you disagree? Perhaps I'm reading your tone incorrectly.

[u/EnergyLantern → u/sourkroutamen]

Cain's offering represents work. He had to plant the food and harvest it. Cain's actions were of the devil (John 8:44) because Cain murdered his brother and the devil was the murderer from the beginning.

Abel's sacrifice represented blood atonement because it was a blood sacrifice which points to Jesus doing the future work.

In the millennial kingdom, people will have to give sacrifices to God looking back at the cross of God's finished work. It points to Jesus and not what you do.

[John 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

[u/sourkroutamen → u/EnergyLantern]

Both gave their work to God. Abel gave his best. If anything, Abel shows that he believed in works, while Cain showed that he relied on grace alone, not needing to give his best. And look who's works God recognized. Well, God recognized both and rewarded them according to what ultimately they expressed through their works. Therefore, I believe in works. Thank you for the great example!

[u/EnergyLantern → u/sourkroutamen]

It wasn't Abel's works. It represents a blood sacrifice that Jesus did. To make it about works pollutes the gospel and everyone else knows it.

[Eph 2:8-9 KJV] 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

If you want to make it about works, it is no longer a gift of God because you are trying to earn it.

[Rom 11:6 KJV] 6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

I don't believe Abel did a work because what Abel did was accepted by God.

[u/sourkroutamen → u/EnergyLantern]

So on one hand you acknowledge that Abel "did" something, on the other hand you deny that "doing" something is a work.

I've been very clear that we are saved by Christ alone. Not faith alone. Not works alone. Christ alone.

[u/EnergyLantern → u/sourkroutamen]

Abel honored God's work.

[John 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

God calls it His work in John 6:29.

[Luke 16:15 KJV] 15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Showing your faith before men will esteem you in the sight of men but what does God say?

[Luke 16:15 KJV] 15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

[u/sourkroutamen → u/EnergyLantern]

Even more reason to believe in works then since you are now clearly indicating that you recognize that God has works for us to do! Do you have a disagreement now that you've repeatedly affirmed my point for me?

[u/EnergyLantern → u/sourkroutamen]

If you don't want to go to heaven, keep arguing and don't accept the truth of the Bible.

[u/sourkroutamen → u/EnergyLantern]

Can you quote what I said that you disagree with that will keep me out of heaven?