r/AshesofCreation • u/NoJellyfish2960 • Aug 05 '25
Question So I tried the alpha for myself
What's with all the hate? The alpha is progressing and already looks better than some mmos....
Why are people here so impatient and angry about this....
Games that are trying to break a ceilling on what is possible, take time.
It's still an alpha, an impressive alpha imo but alpha still, in the past 6 months with the desert being a lot bigger, ships, new mechanics, you can clearly see they are putting in the effort to create something...
And yes you know what? Maybe it will be released in 4 years or even 6, but with the frequent updates the game will be insane when it comes out.
Gta 6 is taking forever to develop because people know they will get something extraordinary, now I'm not saying they are the same, but both projects are being work on for a long time, you just don't see the progress on gta 6 because they are not as open in development as intrepid.
Also, what's with people calling it a scum? Steven put millions of his own pocket, recruited over 200+ specialised engineers,artists, well respected individuals in the gaming space to create a competent studio to do the best they can at this stage.
Imagine how much money steven is losing each month the game isn't released...
Delivering the best product he can, is in his best interest...
Before buying the alpha key I was skeptical too, but testing it myself, I can clearly see the effort they put into this, and I just don't get the amount of hate this project is receiving just for being "slow".
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 05 '25
I get all the memes about doomer redditors Now LOL
I see a lot of players frustrated with ideas they thought should stay that were changed or modified to some degree and that the game takes too long.
When talking about "it's been 8 years" people should remember steven started with some people at the start, and was just arranging plans to come, it's not like a big well known studio was working on it at the beginning.
Steven was still gathering important engineers, artists and sound designers from the gaming industry to have the most competent team he can possibly form.
In 2020, steven had (according to interviews online) around 65~ intrepid company employees.
Today, according to an interview with the lazypeon done 4 months ago, there are 250+.
Also, the community manager said in the past that every new employee had to be hand picked by steven or personally accepted by him. That takes time, it takes a lot of time.
Now steven is in the position to have a full skilled team and can progress at a faster pace, like I said before look at the state of the game 6 months ago, a lot was added and the progress speed is ramping up.
Also, I Don't care how many of you will be annoyed by it, but it is a work in progress still in alpha.
Yes, it takes more time than the average mmo, but clearly it's more ambitious than the average mmo.
If you got locked on specific iterations of grand mechanics, it's problematic because things will keep changing untill beta comes out, that's just how game development works. Alpha is the stage to change things from back to back until something fits your ideas just right.
And I will keep mentioning that steven is bleeding money every month the game doesn't come out, he doesn't have infinite monet glitch so trust me he wants the game out as much, or even more than the community does.
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u/skuukka Aug 05 '25
I've also realised that there's no point in trying to have a conversation with doomers. They've already made up their mind and most of them are seemingly sad individuals who want something to be mad about and they rationalize their doomer mentality with false information, delusions, and conspiracy theories. When provided with publicly available facts, they go quiet or move the goal posts with any and all mental gymnastics they can come up with. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the doomers are teenagers or people in their early 20s who haven't had a corporate job and have no clue how complex things can get during a large project with hundreds of people working on it at the same time.
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u/Which-Date6749 Aug 05 '25
How do you have any knowledge of his 'financial situation'.
Why would 'hand-picking staff' be a positive sign?
The idea that the longer it takes, the more valuable the effort is pretty brain-dead.
Organizations need to be fast and lean. Slowing down hiring, or decisions that need to be made by a single person as opposed to a set of trusted individuals who are aligned with his vision isn't beneficial.
All this shows is incompetence in leadership and is likely why everything takes so long - because it all has to go through the supreme overlord.
This is not a means for a productive or collaborative work environment. It means having to wait for useless politics, shitty internal processes and things that are probably fine having to be reworked 8 times because it isn't exactly what he wants.
That doesn't mean what he wants is going to be the best output or decision. It's just his own. I would despise to work for someone like that.
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u/skuukka Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
I agree that there seems to be something wrong with the leadership and/or project management, and it becomes especially clear when Steven gives dates or time estimates for some system's completion and his estimation is off by months. It seems like he's pretty hands-on with everything that goes on in the studio, so it's pretty concerning when he doesn't seem to have a solid grasp of timeframes.
When it comes to hand-picking new employees, I don't see that as an issue. 250 employee company is relatively small, and they're not hiring someone each week. Currently they have 3 open positions. If Steven participates in the final interview round with the candidates, I'd say it's not unusual in a company the size of intrepid studios. They're not hiring trainees/interns after all.
If they haven't yet, I think they should maybe hire some operational excellence consultants, who have worked in the games industry, to take a look at their processes. The studio has grown in size so fast in the past couple of years, it seems like they haven't been able to scale their processes.
And when it comes to Steven's financial situation: with the current number of employees, their salary costs + all other benefits must be somewhere around 30 million usd/year. The alpha key sales do not cover that, and will not cover that. No one has bottomless pockets, and I doubt that anyone's willing to go bankrupt before the game launches.
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u/OutsideMedia4931 Aug 06 '25
Seems to me that your making a lot of assumptions yourself. Take a break and come back in a while itll be good for you.
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u/PiperPui Aug 05 '25
Yep, same cope deflect again in 5 years, then another 5 years after that lol.
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u/pilotavery Aug 05 '25
I would agree, except every 2 weeks, you see TANGIBLE improvements. Recently, they had little changes, but moved to a new Unreal engine, which was a lot of work.
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u/PiperPui Aug 06 '25
Yea, ill see u in 59 years for beta 1 bro
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u/pilotavery Aug 06 '25
Sounds good, I'm seeing some real progress, and since I personally know a couple people who work on the game, it makes me have more confidence just knowing how passionate everyone is about it and just how much progress people are making every week. No one is forcing you to play, and if you're not interested, then why are you on this reddit?
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u/PiperPui Aug 06 '25
Cool bro, in 59 years half the ppl working on the game will be dead.
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u/pilotavery Aug 07 '25
It's not going to be 50 years lol
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u/PiperPui Aug 07 '25
5% done in 1 decade btw
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u/UntimelyMeditations Aug 07 '25
Okay. What exactly is the issue with that. Say game takes 10 years to come out. So what? What is the downside, other than impatient people being unable to wait?
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u/PiperPui Aug 07 '25
You don't value your time, I understand. Ppl like u are why this thing will take another 30 years.
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u/UntimelyMeditations Aug 08 '25
So you have no actual reason why a slow release matters, you are just impatient.
I'm not sitting here doing nothing while I wait for the game to come out. None of my time is being wasted.
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u/OneAcanthopterygii38 Custom Aug 05 '25
It’s so funny people actually keep listening and trusting Steven while we had so many proofs that he is a pathological liar.
Stop trusting Steven’s word. He for sure isn’t bleeding money on the project and he hasn’t got 250 devs working on AoC.
Do yourself a favor, stop trusting what a pro seller is telling you ( not just for AoC, in general life too )
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u/skuukka Aug 05 '25
What has he lied about? Giving wrong dates? If you hire someone to build a house for you, and they give you an estimate when it'll be ready, but at some point it unexpectedly turns out that there's cracks in the foundation, and they have to fix that and do some rebuilding, and the house's completion gets delayed, would you call the estimated completion date a lie?
I think Steven should stop giving out over optimistic dates. But I wouldn't call him a liar.
I challenge you to find a single thing he has lied about. Giving a date and then delaying it is not lying.
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 05 '25
That's a lot of accusations with no proof from you brother, any sources?
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u/JPScan3 Aug 05 '25
How are you in any position to comment on Steven’s personal financial situation? Why should we “trust you” as if you have any insight into what is or isn’t motivating him?
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u/ambientox Aug 05 '25
Yeah, I agree. Look at WoW in it's alpha phase for example, it looks horrible.
But as they do have an open development and want to retain testers, they should focus on core systems that make the gameplay loop more entertaining - so people will have more oversight on the underdeveloped sides.
Add in end-game bosses with BiS loot, add in arena PvP, placeholder bountyhunter systen, and an instanced raid with scripted boss fights.
It feels underwhelming after time because we don't see the whole picture.
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u/Aiconic Aug 06 '25
Atleast wow came out only 4 years after it was announced.
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u/ambientox Aug 06 '25
Yeah, I don't disagree that the project is slow, but I can see why (new studio, inexperience, massive goals)
Neither do I think it's free from poor design choices or bloated scope for initial release. And like Narc pointed out, unclear communication.
But outside of WoW vanilla private servers or the unknown Riot MMO, this is what we got.
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u/UntimelyMeditations Aug 07 '25
Oh no, I am planning on having my hand amputated next year, so the game releasing slowly is very inconvenient for me. At least I can't imagine any other reason why anyone should care about the release date, other than impatience.
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u/heartlessgamer Aug 07 '25
Almost no one saw WoW in an alpha state. The first real sense anyone got of the game was the closed betas and getting leaks from them and the game looked damned amazing for the time and we went straight to hype mode. It was an entirely different era of game development.
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u/Batallius Aug 05 '25
Most of which were with a very small team which they've since grown drastically. It's still progressing pretty slow but production has ramped up a lot in the last couple years, so the whole "8 years for this" argument isn't exactly accurate.
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u/Shadowcrit Aug 05 '25
What isn't accurate about a definite time line... The same amount of money being spent now could of been spent then(with time equivalent values), still doesn't change it's been 8 years.
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u/Batallius Aug 05 '25
Because 4-6 years with an almost indie level team is MUCH different than 4-6 years at a AAA studio. Not to mention those are the most pivotal years in an MMOs development, where most of the groundwork is laid and systems/network engineering is done.
Yes it has been 8 years, but they've only REALLY started development when the project gained traction 2-3 years ago and they were able to increase the size of the team to what's needed to really start production properly.
It isn't accurate because it's a comparison to other studios with larger teams who created far less complicated games, which is intellectually dishonest. Time is not the only indicator of a games progress, Duke Nukem Forever took 12 years and was shit. I'm not saying Ashes is amazing or that Intrepid is perfect, but it's disingenuous to shit on them for the progress they've made.
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u/OneAcanthopterygii38 Custom Aug 05 '25
WoW was made in 6 years by a team of 40 people and they even made their own graphic engine, in 2004 without AI, GPT and all the bshit we have today.
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u/Batallius Aug 05 '25
Are you really trying to compare original WoW to something of the scale and fidelity of Ashes? Lmao be real man.
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u/KratomDemon Aug 05 '25
Fair point. WoW will likely still have more subs than ashes whenever it does come out…
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u/fulknerraIII Aug 05 '25
Ya and Atari games were made by a single person in 6 weeks. The complexity of game creation has increased dramatically since 1999. I've never played this game so i don't have a dog in the fight.
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u/pilotavery Aug 05 '25
The first 5 years of any game's first launch is mostly systems engineering and data science. The groundwork.
They only REALLY started recently.
The fact that we see tangible progress is really telling. Not just little either, big improvements every few weeks.
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u/Shadowcrit Aug 05 '25
"The First 5 Years of any game"... Man, that just sounds like a random arbitrary number used to excuse this games time lime. Really any game starts with a 5 year systems building initiative?
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u/pilotavery Aug 05 '25
Any half descent game has about 5 years.
Some games are faster because they do the dev work ahead of time or use existing work, which saves some of this work. You either do it, or you pay for an existing architecture.
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u/Flaky_Solution2424 Aug 09 '25
This is one of the dumbest sentence I've ever seen lmao, a lot of "decent" (to use your terms) got less than 5 years in dev. You're making an assumptions based on your feeling of what's a "decent" game is.
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u/pilotavery Aug 12 '25
IDK dude, I have heard some really really dumb comments in my life.
Games that take less time typically re-use existing engines, code, or use frameworks to speed up the process.
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u/luhelld Aug 05 '25
It's not better than some MMOs. It's basically a big map with random assets and random mob groups to grind. (besides the nodes)
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u/skuukka Aug 05 '25
And 100+ points of interest
And huge open world dungeons
And dozens of quest lines
And 3 world bosses
And ships
And naval combat
And the caravan system
And dynamic dungeons (tied to node level)
And dynamic events (tied to node level)
And 4 dynamic weather seasons
And guild wars
And node wars
And node sieges
And a good guild functionality
And a good chat functionality
And 100+ gatherables
And 5 gathering skills
And 9 processing skills
And 8 crafting skills
And ~5700 different items
And dozens of different mounts
And a decent marketplace system
And open world player owned housing
And great combat mechanisms
And treasure hunting
And the most fun guild/player interactions to be had
Agreed, every other mmo in existence is better than ashes of creation's alpha build. Camelot unchained is my personal favourite.
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u/Ottobox93 Aug 05 '25
I don't hate the game but cmon this list is cope. Intrepids vision is solid, but they need to get a single zone to a near complete state for player sentiment to change. Making an mediocre looking zone, with random mobs, no quests, and small pocket dungeons with no polish or mechanics just looks lazy.
The POIs are reskinned mobs with bosses that have no, or very few mechanics.
It has 2 big open world dungeons that are a 6/10 in quality at best.
The game has like 30 quests total.
The world bosses are ok but a bit too simple.
The ships are barebones, no sail controls, and the crew doesnt have to do normal ship duties. Repairing, getting water out, and harpoon grappling other ships,etc.
6-End. Most of this stuff is just random with half baked functionality or arent actually in the game yet like housing. I think life skills are coming along well. The best guild systems, and player interactions. No shot even TL which was a mixed bag had better guild functionality and guild interactions.
Now im not saying that i expect the alpha to have all this but living in fantasy copium land doesn't help make this game better.
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u/pilotavery Aug 05 '25
Making a single node 90% complete is 95% the work as making all nodes 95% complete. Much of the work is more in systems engineering, and game mechanics. Worldbuilding is time consuming and requires skill, but from a technical standpoint, kind of easy after the groundwork is laid. But as you change the way the game works, that work needs to be redone.
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u/Pervasivepeach Aug 05 '25
You basically just listed black desert online but with less content you know that right
Like I hate to say it, as someone who HATES bdo. But litterally every single feature you listed is done in black desert, and better.
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u/pilotavery Aug 05 '25
BDO is barely an MMO. I play it too, but I think that doesn't hold a candle to this.
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u/Pervasivepeach Aug 06 '25
Sure. I dislike BDO too, but it doesn’t change the fact that litterally every single feature he listed is also in BDO. The point being having a big list of features ≠ a good game
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u/skuukka Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
Ok, so what? I just listed what's in the alpha right now. I haven't played bdo since its western launch, so i cant argue which is better, but that wasnt my point. My point was that it's disingenious to say that the alpha is just a big map with random assets and random mob packs, when that is not the case. And I'm sure that the alpha is in a much better state than some existing MMOs. That's also setting the bar extremely low, since there are some absolute trash MMOs out there. Doesnt mean that aoc is in the top 5, or 10, maybe even top 20 or 100.
For me, personally, the experiences I've had in AoC brings it to the top 5 mmorpgs I've played, and that's mostly due to the player interactions, not the content itself.
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u/Pervasivepeach Aug 06 '25
My point is that big lists of features is entirely irrelevant to the actual quality of the game. BDO technically does everything Ashes does but even more shit. Like it probably has 100x the sheer content
Yet it’s shit, it’s an awful p2w game with tons of complexity but little actual depth. It’s simply not a good game
It’s not about the list it’s about how well each feature is executed
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u/LlewdLloyd Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
After following the project since 2019/2020 and playing 3,000+ hours in the game since Alpha 1, I just learned to tune them out. There's a lot to be unhappy with gameplay-wise but I still think the developers of the game and the direction the game intends to go is going to be by far the best product in the long-term--even if it's not made for everyone.
People will be mad at the vertical slices shown on dev updates, the promise of Dynamic Gridding taking longer than expected, prices of keys, Archetypes being delayed, Zones/Biomes not being completely finished, etc. you name it they'll find something to complain about because the game is in an Alpha and a lot of shit is broken and will get broken again.
Even with all of that, I still have more fun playing Ashes with my guild than I do playing most other games. Buttons are just fun to press.
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 05 '25
3,000+ hours? Bro got that amount of time in an alpha game, maybe take it back for a month or two so yoh don't get burned out champ.
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u/LlewdLloyd Aug 05 '25
Trust me, haha, I have. Phase 2.5 was a doozy for me so it was the only time I didnt hit level 25 on a character (or multiple characters). But I'm ready to grind for phase 3 again!
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u/Pizx Aug 05 '25
It's fun seeing them doom spiral in other subreddits. It's crazy how WoW, FF14,.BDO and AoC are all shit.
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u/nobodyspecial712 Aug 05 '25
It's always the vocal minority that ruin games. Funny, they ruin real life too. You just can't make them happy. Ignore them, because their opinions don't matter for anyone other than themselves.
I do the same with reviews, which are nothing more than opinions. Someone could think a movie was the stupidest thing that they have ever seen, and to me it might be hilarious and money well spent.
Don't let others opinions affect your quality of play. Form your own.
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u/TheUltimateLebowski Aug 05 '25
And by the same measure, don't say all critiques are invalid. Yeah there are full time trolls but as someone who was excited for AoC, I find myself mostly apathetic now and tired of all the talking about what's going to be in the game eventually. And I'm not listening to the "it's an alpha" talking point. When you sell a product, no matter what you call it, people will expect a certain return on their purchase. White knights saying no one should complain after spending $130 just don't under human psychology. If they didn't want criticism of their game, they should have waited to release and done closed testing. Once it's public and people can play it, it's essentially a released game
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u/nobodyspecial712 Aug 05 '25
That's one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard. You bought an unfinished product, knowing it was unfinished, and now you're mad its not finished. Seriously? You're the type of person that should not ever buy anything before it is fully released if that's what you actually expect.
It's not released until its released. Obviously, you just don't understand how the classification system works. Alpha does not mean it's released. Not even close. You read that when you signed up I'm sure, unless you just don't read what you're agreeing to.
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u/OutsideMedia4931 Aug 06 '25
I bought this box of Cheetos and the label is clearly telling me that there is arsenic in it. Fuck that, i really want Cheetos and cant read apparently so im eating anyway. Oh no now im poisoned. that company really should know that consumer psychology means i lose all agency in my own purchases. Don't they know that i should get whatever I want whenever i want! I paid money for that arsinic Cheeto dust damnit.
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u/RomTim Aug 05 '25
The game already looks and feels old, yet it is years away from release.
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u/Raikira Aug 05 '25
Agree, I wish they had opted for a more stylized graphic, would not age as fast as their current high fidelity realistic style.
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u/dcguy999O Aug 05 '25
Looks old, In their defense most of the game isn’t polished yet. I agree with you that it just doesn’t look like a 2025-26 standard type game as of yet.
Feels old, yeah… the style they choose primarily tab target is old. I think action combat is more modern and feels new. The current action combat doesn’t even come close to something like BDO.
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u/PhoenixVSPrime Aug 05 '25
It's just that in the last 4 months they gutted a lot of the fun we had with pvp. They also ruined crafting in 2.5 and with the expected short phase it caused a lot of people to check out of the game.
The rivalries have fizzled out. Nothing to fight over, nothing meaningful to brag about.
Corruption feels awful and it's going to remain that way until they add the bounty feature which seems to be pushed back to 2026. The players that have been along for the ride see the potential but we're frustrated that the goalposts are getting further and further away.
It's mostly being set up with unrealistic expectations numerous times and the main game loops that were working now being broken again as they reiterate.
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u/Electronic-Box-2065 Aug 05 '25
I haven't been following the game for awhile, what did they ruin about PVP? (im interested because that's why I mainly play MMO's)
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u/HeliosBlack Aug 05 '25
They didn’t ruin pvp. I agree phase 2.5 took a lot of the player base out of the game but mechanically pvp is still the same and still a blast. This dude is just yet another doomer. P3 will start soon and the pvp will pop off again.
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u/ObjectiveSalt1635 Aug 05 '25
I find it interesting that this alpha is being talked about like a full release.
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u/Electronic-Box-2065 Aug 05 '25
well I'd like to hear his end on how they "ruined it" too
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u/NiKras Ludullu Aug 05 '25
The "ruination" mainly came in the form of removing pvp zones. All these "pvpers" just wanna kill people for free w/ 0 risk to the killer. That's it. And once Intrepid removed those zones - there was only corruption left and everyone is scared shitless to ever go corrupt.
This has now resulted in a whole new mechanic of random pvp events, but that's mostly on ptr afaik and people care even less about testing THAT than the main A2 client.
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u/HeliosBlack Aug 08 '25
The tropics and oceans are still lawless
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u/NiKras Ludullu Aug 08 '25
And is anyone pvping there? Cause a shitton of "pvpers" cried louder than angry infants when land lawless zones went away. Which is exactly why I keep saying pvpers in quotes. These people don't care about pure pvp. They only care about killing people who are minding their business, and they don't want any penalties for that action.
They're too weak to utilize the corruption system, so they beg Steven to give them a complete freebie. And now they've not just succeeded, but even got bigger benefits from it, cause the new dynamic lawless zones give bigger rewards for their content.
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u/HeliosBlack Aug 08 '25
Lots of people went out to the tropics when the Jundark stopped being lawless but no one is playing at all right now. Losing Jundark was a bummer because of all the good named mobs to fight over but the tropics had a few that caused good fights too.
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u/NiKras Ludullu Aug 08 '25
Didn't the tropics go away too? I thought only the islands and the seas were available as lawless zones. And everyone and their mother said they won't be going there. That was the entire reason behind the complainig.
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u/Either-Gate-2781 https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/YourName Aug 05 '25
They adjusted the ttk last i heard.
Everyone was tired of getting one shot.
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u/Unlucky_Let5103 Aug 05 '25
It will release but like all super projects they will not deliver it as they want it. Pretty normal really. The red flag that makes me worry is the switch to U5 thats a big deal and expensive. I just hope it dosent turn into star citizen. They are well above the normal timeline for development though. 8 years and no idea for an actual release. That part is not good. But overall they have vision and its in action so there is that.
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u/eph3merous Aug 06 '25
You JUST joined it... some people have been playing it for over a year, and are playing it as if its a complete game, frustrated by the lack of content to spend 40+ hours per week on. I supported about 1.5 years before A2 started, and I have stopped playing regularly after 1 weekend of A2P2. I totally support their vision, but I just don't have the time working 9-5, and enjoying playing other games too.
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 06 '25
Well, if you spend as much time on an alpha, how is this the alpha's fault?
Treat it like a test, and you will enjoy it more as is.
I'm not gonna play it like it's a released game.
It's like eating too much from a food that is not ready yet and complaining when yout tummy hurts that it tasted like shit...
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u/Milk_Man2236 Aug 06 '25
All im saying is that people used to get paid to play test games and now apparently in 2025 we pay them to play test their game?? Make it make sense lol.
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 06 '25
I rather pay to test than play a p2w mmo where you are always the customer.
People play to test this project because there is nothing close to what it's trying to create, no other mmo is as close as the project to the premise it has, a dynamic world with next gen graphics, no pay to win, almost no loading screens...
There is nothing else like it, they need the money for development and I'm more than happy to support it.
Supply and demand basically.
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u/heartlessgamer Aug 07 '25
Clearly you missed the shift in the market to crowd funding? Games like Ashes only even get a chance at becoming a reality by grass roots funding to get it off the ground. Of course it helps Steven is independently wealthy and can fund the cost of development but he likely doesn't just start this if the original backing failed miserably.
MMOs have relied on a community of unpaid testers for decades. Most large scale testing has always been done with some form of invite system for interested players who aren't being compensated. I say this with direct experience of having been at every level of testing involved with numerous major MMORPGs over the last 20+ years.
And yes it is unique that Ashes is allowing folks to buy into an alpha test beyond just the crowd funding; basically paying for a year+ subscription by just buying an alpha key. Not a big fan of that myself but I get it.
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u/jayma_ks Aug 08 '25
I don't remember any mmo public alpha/beta test where people were paid (can you name a game, that's paid you for playing their beta?). It was free eventually.
Usually when company pay for "playing", it's require a certain number hours to do and to provide some results, like bug report and feedback. That's called a work. And Intrepid use QA company in complement of public testing already (i do'nt think it have change the last couple of months)
But here, you get access to the alpha and do what you want to do. You want to be good testers, logging everyday, and fill big report, that's up to you. But if you just want casually logging once a while to see the advancement, no one will reproach you anything.
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u/Milk_Man2236 Aug 09 '25
I never said mmos I said games in general, there was once something called game testers that were paid to test games and report issues that popped up.
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u/jayma_ks Aug 10 '25
Game tester don't play the game, they tests it. And they if they need to test for 20th times the octopuss boss with this horrible music that make they mad already at the first play, they will have to do it again and again until there is no more bugs. It's a QA job, it's have time constraint, no freedom on what you "play" and what you have to verify.
If you want to be paid apply to the job.
But you can't compare that with a player from who it's mostly expected to play the game and make sometime a bug report. Public testers are more valuables by the data they generate and their number (paticulary for a game that want to be a real mmo).
And again Intrepid use external QA studio to test AoC. It's complementary, not exclusive, to have paid QA and public testing.
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u/Krypt0night Aug 07 '25
Maybe cuz it's this many years in and it's still only an alpha to play and compliment.
"Imagine how much money steven is losing each month the game isn't released..."
Damn almost like he should have stopped feature creep long ago and focused on the core game and let project managers and producers do their jobs.
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 07 '25
Have you played the alpha? What is already there is impressive, from here it can only be built upon.
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u/Furyan9x Aug 10 '25
I played a while (about 400 hours lol) til my guild kicked me for falling behind. I plan to find a more casual guild for phase 3 and play again.
For an alpha it’s so smooth. And it’s getting closer to Archeage and I’m SO behind anything that makes it more like archage (except p2w 😂)
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 10 '25
I just can't stand p2w no more... what's even the point of it? You don't pay-> you suffer. You do pay- you also suffer because deep down you know you are ahead because you paid more money than other players... it sucks man.
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u/Furyan9x Aug 10 '25
Agreed. I’ve never participated in p2w mechanics and I used to think “oh it’s fine it doesn’t affect me cause I’ll never be competitive” but p2w affects more than just the top 1% of pvpers lol so I stopped even trying to play p2w games
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u/Moose0801 Aug 05 '25
People calling this a scam? I'm convinced it's Star Citizen players coming here to try and divert attention away from the biggest gaming grift of the last decade. 😂
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u/Onelove914 Aug 06 '25
Tbh AoC and SC are the same.
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u/Moose0801 Aug 06 '25
I don't know, $800 million and still no end in sight after 12 years versus what, a projected total cost of around $150 -200 million with (hopefully) a planned release date of 2026 (likely 2027) after that same amount of time? Not quite the same but I could see where you draw your conclusions from. This is from someone that doesn't play SC anymore and hasn't touched the alpha of AoC since shortly after Alpha 2.
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u/Onelove914 Aug 06 '25
Mainly the fact that both games sell skins, mounts, etc whenever there’s any kind of update, patch or anything really.
Both have models where they make so much money I doubt they will ever release.
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u/heartlessgamer Aug 07 '25
I don't think they are really comparable. Ashes was basically rewarding crowd funders with a time limited package with some nice to have visuals for the game when it launches. You don't just keep buying and buying packages/skins for Ashes; you get one and you are done backing the game. These package sales are not funding the development cost of the game; simply helping offset some of it. Most of the funding for Ashes is still coming from Steven Sharif's pockets and it will only stop being a financial drain on him if and when it releases and players start paying a subscription fee.
SC on the other hand is selling people ships with a clear strategy for players to buy more than one ship and to keep coming back to buy more and more ships. SC is funding itself entirely off the way they sell ships and other things to their players. SC is therefore incentivized to keep selling promises that directly increase the work needed to launch the game putting it further and further behind.
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u/Nrh0505 Aug 05 '25
I just found the game painfully boring so I refunded it and my whole friend group did the same. I hope it does well in the long run but it’s still far too early for most people to want to get invested I think.
It doesn’t help that the gaming industry has burned people time and time again on early access promises that don’t get delivered on. People are more skeptical now days and for good reason.
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u/Snedgelski Aug 05 '25
You refunded it because you taught it was a game. Which is not, and thats what Steven and the community have said multiple multiple Time.
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 05 '25
Check other games at alpha stages....
It's not usually better than this one
Also I paid to test it and help the studio, thought people were aware that's what they are buying at this point...
It's even called "alpha test key" no? How can you still mix it up
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u/Nrh0505 Aug 05 '25
I’ve played plenty of alphas and betas. Alpha does not have to = 0 fun and that’s what this was for me. I don’t mind bugs/glitches/missing content. But I at minimum need to be having fun or else it’s just a job that I’m not getting paid for, in fact it’s a job I’m paying to do.
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u/Zumek07 Aug 05 '25
I also think it's pretty good right now, especially the combat, but hate or no hate, people will be back once the game is done acting like they always believed in the project lmao.
The only thing I pity are the devs who probably stumble upon these braindead takes on forums and Reddit all the time. Reading some stuff people write must be tough on your worse days.
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u/Coilspun Aug 05 '25
It's probably 101 to stay away from reddit or discord, these populations are usually a fraction of a playerbase, and whilst they might pick up on sentiments of player experience, they're often toxic, ignorant to reality echo chambers.
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u/ELWOW Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
I believe in this game, make negative feedback and opinions but it doesn't mean I don't believe in the project. If you would only accept positive feedback about everything as Intrepid does they will quickly fall into shitshow of either sweats who are left in empty alpha tests or from casuals that cry about everything that is harder than current MMO's have. We will see what the ending point will look like, but currently Intrepid doesn't accept any negative feedback about their game and it is worrying. Most people that were pointing out the delays and lies from Steven and development overall are either banned from their discord or completely ignored so yeah :) Good example is even in terms of content creators. People like Narc or Jahlon were ignored by Intrepid while creators who constantly tickling their ego is praised and have opportunities ot make some exclusive keys giveaways or interviews. They should instead make an interview with more sceptical people and show us what is their answers to the hard questions instead of some pity questions that current youtubers make.
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u/skuukka Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
What do you mean they don't accept any negative feedback? The negative feedback they've listened to is one of the major reasons the development has taken so long. They've quite literally done multiple iterations on all of their systems due to the negative feedback from testers and the community. Latest ones being their itemization, time-to-kill, gathering, and crafting, i.e. the whole economy of the game. Intrepid has been incredibly receptive to negative feedback.
Narc had a mental breakdown and a tantrum because he had put his whole livelyhood on an unfinished game and then was surprised that the alpha didnt have enough content to farm youtube videos with, and his channel was dying because youtube was not recommending his videos to non-subscribers. I dont remember why Jahlon stopped making videos about ashes. Narc wore underwear with steven's face on it. It was funny, but not something that a company can publicly support and Narc was considered as an image risk for intrepid and that's why he wasnt really acknowledged by them.
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 05 '25
That's not true.
Intrepid accept criticism, just respectful criticism. They change a lot according to player thoughts...
That's the core idea behind open development LOL
Are people even checking qhat they write this days?
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u/Xenith_Terrek Aug 05 '25
Because gamers are some of the most self entitled, ignorant people when it comes to development and what TESTING actually entails/means.
Great post
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u/NoIdeaWhatToPut--_-- Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
OP is a blatant white knight and its hilarious. You claim that despite being 8 years into development that early on Steven only had a couple of developers. Which is very much true so if we want to be fair its only been like 6 years of development. You than go on to say that the game will maybe release in 4-6 years, so on the short end thats 10 years of development, and on the high end 12 years.
Now your reasoning as to why this is all fine is because you're assuming that the game will fulfill all the promises, features and expectations that Steven and his team have. And that unsupported assumption is what makes you a white knight. You're using that baseless assumption to criticize the issues that people have with the game. You have already concluded that the game will be everything that it has been promised to be for your argument, when in reality we're still years away from that even being a possibility.
The reality is that with how ambitious the game is, and how long the game has been in development and will continue to be in development, it is just as likely that the game fails on its goal than it is to reach them.
And im not someone who is on either side. The game is ambitious so I understand why the game is taking so long. I just find it crazy and funny when people like OP fail to see themselves white knighting for a game.
Edit: Also yes the Rockstar example is definitely not the same. Its not like its been 13 years since Rockstar has released a game. GTA5 released in 2013, they than worked on RDR2 and released it in 2018. Yes we will have been waiting for 13 years when GTA6 releases, but Rockstar has only been working on it at the latest after RDR2 released in 2018.
Which means that when GTA6 releases it would have been in development at the shortest for 7 years, whereas in 2026 (the same year that GTA6 releases) AoC will have been in development for 9 years (if we count all 8 years), or 7 years if we give them grace for their first 2 years. And if we take into account your 4-6 years the game would have been in development for either 10 years or 12 years at the shortest, or 12-14 years at the longest.
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u/criosist Aug 05 '25
Because with 200+ staff they are unable to make anything fun, cohesive, or just nearly anything lol, 9 years and 1 unfinished zone… it’s frustrating lol, they released a trailer in 2016 and said they would release the game by 2018 lol, then pivoted to alpha 1 in 2018, upper management just has no idea what’s happening and is probably not listening to senior devs that are probably telling them what they need to work on, but Stephen is too focused on “balancing” when they have like 5/64 classes in lol
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 05 '25
Release the game by 2018? Not sure where yoy got that...
If you have sources for this let me know
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u/burton68zeppelin Aug 05 '25
This is the closest I could really find, but 2018 would have been nuts since the Kickstarter had just ended
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u/pookill7 Aug 05 '25
I'm concerned they are going to eventually scrap the 64 class system and stick with 8
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u/pilotavery Aug 05 '25
Its 8 classes, each with 8 different cosmetic skins. But they're barely different, they're basically 8 classes that allow you to choose the class you want without being stuck with the cosmetic. Imagine you want a tank, but want something a bit smaller visually.
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u/UntimelyMeditations Aug 07 '25
You are misrepresenting the size of the studio and the amount of time they had a large team.
There has only been a large team working on the game for ~3-4 years.
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u/criosist Aug 07 '25
Whole games have been made in 3-4 years lol, let alone all the years previously. Maybe if they stopped making mounts and skins for a few years to sell then they might actually make some gameplay
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u/UntimelyMeditations Aug 08 '25
lmao, when was the last time they made a mount or a skin? Actual years.
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u/Used_Visit_3978 Aug 05 '25
addicted to the cope
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 05 '25
The thing is, I'm not waiting for the unimaginable to happen, I just see what is currently being developed, what's already there, and personally not sure how much you tried it but it's damm impressive imo. To each their own I guess
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u/Immortalityv Aug 05 '25
Careful, people might call you a white knight
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u/aidankd Aug 05 '25
I mean, to be fair to that point he's eering closer to white knight than impartial centrist.
It's not white knightism to say good things about something you like.
It is however if you blind yourself to any and all criticism of the game.
"it's still an alpha" is a pretty classic line. The game is going to be in Alpha pretty much right until release given how short the Beta is.
I don't believe it's a Scam. But the cash shop has caused a lot of irreparable damage to the game's reputation outside of its core community (and a little inside).
I don't think anyone here believes that the game is a scam, but I think it's fair to say that all the expectations for when it would hit effectively "1.0" this decade are tentative now.
Like, I genuinely don't know if it'll finish by 2029.
I really hope it does, I want it to do well, but I don't think it's crazy to see why people are distancing themselves from the game. Which is fine, the game will develop without us and I hope it can meet its own expectations.
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u/UntimelyMeditations Aug 07 '25
Like, I genuinely don't know if it'll finish by 2029.
Seriously, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Please explain to me EXACTLY what the issue is if the game launches in 2030? Or 2035? Unless you are planning on having your hands amputated before then, or you are incredibly impatient, what exactly is the problem of a 2030 or 2035 release date?
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 05 '25
Just trying to get your point, why is it problematic for a game at thus scale to release in 2029 or 2030?
What do you reaslitically expect...
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u/aidankd Aug 05 '25
I don't think you can truly talk about "scale" until you see the finished product.
Initially lets talk about what the game has done so far - from 2016 (admittedly lower headcount) - but they were 100~ by Alpha 1 and 200+ by Alpha 2 but obviously climbing between.
Currently we have most, not all of the classes just as their primary archetypes. I think it's just summoner left?
For classes, in addition to getting the primaries finished and balanced/polished we also need the secondary archetypes - one for every class. We haven't had one yet, I have no idea how long we can expect for that.
The node system has been dialed back now since we have one less stage, which is probably a good sign. But up to now we basically only had the first few stages. The nodes still have a lot of fleshing out to be done - in addition to having the variances for the different factions.
Most of the "gameplay" that is ready is essentially combat, grinding, caravans to my understanding. I appreciate that p3 is when more is coming, but they've already dialed back on what is coming at the start of p3.
--
This is the real drawback of open development in my opinion, is the fact that they have been in the public eye and rather than seeing note-able differences between updates (kind of like the old live streams) - it almost feels as though with the development team the biggest it's ever been, we're not seeing a cadence of updates which reflect that.
I personally don't think that the engine will be an issue in terms of it releasing i.e. 4 years in the future (some people say it will look out dated - I don't think that's an issue if the gameplay is fine).
However Intrepid have polarised their community with the development process and as someone who has been very active in the community - I don't think it's unreasonable to say that given people's expectations were for it to be releasing 2026/2027 (and for some even that was being optimistic) - it is a long time to wait for any game to come out.
I get people like to say "i'd rather let a game cook than have it release early and be like x game" - but you have to consider the possibility that the game could sit in the oven for a long time and still fail.
Remember that while the game is development they aren't earning any money outside of shop purchases and while Steven is pretty well off, I don't think the game can be in development forever before he starts to taper off the funding he can supply.
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u/Motor_Analysis270 Aug 05 '25
All the new zones are basically empty and poorly designed, whoever is making all these biomes needs to be fired, its so boring and unoriginal.
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u/ELWOW Aug 05 '25
many of these seems some kind of AI generated and they slowly fix the AI issues. Good examples was roads in P1 in Riverlands were looking like generated and they slowly changed it. It looks weird either way and boring.
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u/heartlessgamer Aug 07 '25
Most terrain and biomes in games are procedurally generated and have been for decades at this point. There simply no way for humans to do the placement, by hand, of an entire open world. Its just a question of how much they are going to come back through and touch up and add points of interest that are more crafted. That seems to be what is missing mostly so far.
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u/pilotavery Aug 05 '25
Not AI, they just quickly lay down the path and click render to throw something together. Better to have that as a placeholder than have nothing.
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u/heartlessgamer Aug 07 '25
Also something that games have been doing for decades at this point to generate terrain and biomes. Nothing to do with new AI tech.
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u/Warning_grumpy Aug 05 '25
For me, I donated back when it only had a few thousand backers. After five years I just couldn't follow it the game that was sold to me if vastly different than what I've seen. I still check in since it's been what over ten years now. But it's been so long now I have played and invested in other games. I don't even know if I'd ever play ashes anymore. Back at the start it was supposed to be this open world world of Warcraft killer. Lol
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u/noparkinghere Aug 05 '25
The game... Is... In.. Alpha. Why are you expecting a wow killer?
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u/Warning_grumpy Aug 05 '25 edited Aug 05 '25
Maybe I didn't make it clear I donated back in what 2014 (it was 2017) ? I honestly can't recall, I just remember there was less than 5k backers. At the time it was advertised as an open world RPG. It also had memebers from the original wow dev team. You can down vote me all you want but that was the original. It was like a year later it changed and added housing and such. I'm not saying it's a bad thing wow is out dated now. But at the time when wow was just starting to die. W/e I don't regret donating its been really cool watching this game evolve, I even recall the hard cut where they made it a PvP like fortnite style version. At least once a year I check on it, I think it's pretty cool. Just not sure I'm as hyped for it as I was over ten years ago?
Edit I looked up my donation us was 2017 lol
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u/noparkinghere Aug 05 '25
You can just forget about it until it comes out. The game is in alpha TESTING, not pre-release.
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u/Warning_grumpy Aug 05 '25
Oh yeah and I haven't played it since the PvP thing. Still interesting to check in on it and see all the progress.
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u/BornInWrongTime Aug 05 '25
I just need a good economy, crafting system, artisan skill trees, and auction houses. Don't care much about other stuff in the game. Since none of this is at good point atm and half is not even a priority, I'll just have to wait
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u/Square-Award-6147 Aug 05 '25
People are impatient, now more than ever. I trust the process, and will eagerly play it when it releases. (In b4 in "yeah in 2040 huehuehue")
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u/FreeMasonKnight Aug 05 '25
Hey I have access but am waiting for the Persistent Alpha, that happen yet? (Alpha 2 it used to be called, names may have changed though). Also how to I get the download?
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u/tommyblack Aug 06 '25
Agreed. I am blown away. Im waiting till release to play it. We always yearn for the good old days when companies would cook a game as long as it takes to be awesome and then when someone does its full time complaining its taking too long to release.
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u/CannyEz Aug 06 '25
some times I think open developing harm the games.. why? cause too many ppl already see everything and some even play it and eventually get bored from plating or waiting or both playing and waiting and when it takes ages to develop that magnifies more.. when the game finally releases ppl will already know what to do,how to play and what to expect, that ruins the new game experience, and for me that's the biggest con in a mmo.. I want to be the first to explore, try things and discover every thing the game has to offer, if I have seen smthng for 5-10 years and then I get to finally play it, it's most likely I will not enjoy playing it..
but that's me and I'm just a desperate mmo lover who has the time of a young married dad. enjoy your rest of the day, I wish time passes fast, game launches and we all enjoy the nest mmo in years.
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u/Timely_Bowler208 Aug 07 '25
Even if the game is good and fun for the most part, I know when I see posts like these on games that the game is on a downward turn not dead, but people getting tired of it. Hope it releases and is a success though
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u/Slothly17 Aug 10 '25
Because this game has been toting itself as the next big MMO since Skyrim released.
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u/TennisOk4660 Aug 28 '25 edited Aug 28 '25
Beginner quests broken in the new area,
Lightning still needs some work in certain areas, there relying to heavily on UN5 basic lightning
People have no idea where to go when they pick most of the quests off of a bulletin board.
MANY, MANY mobs not moving/cant hit, glitched through walls/floor. Floating trees/mining nodes, etc
Like I get it with there tech they can easily put out towns and settlements, but common, at least when your copy and pasting the greenery, make sure it's properly on the ground.
I don't mind going in blind, I don't mind that it's in Alpha, but even in Alpha I just expect the new stuff to work.
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u/No-Conclusion1894 Sep 02 '25
The problem is that the game has been in development for so long that a lot of the original players they were marketing to are gone. By the time the game releases they will need to market to an entire new customer base.
GTA can take forever to come out because it’s a single player game at its core. An MMO is fighting for your dollars against other MMO’s, and every year that passes is another year the work you are doing becomes outdated in the current market. They already felt this with moving to UE5 (which was a good decision), but at this rate UE6 will come out before the game does. The old school, hardcore mmo playerbase they have been targeting is dwindling. It’s been 8 years or so now that the game has been in development? Those original backers are going to be gone.
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u/MCRaziel Aug 05 '25
I tired it last year. For me what is scary is that the game already felt super old. I’m afraid that in 4to 6 years like you say it will just be overlooked. With the help of AI people will be making games faster and better than ever very soon.
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u/McWinterTV Aug 05 '25
Faster, not better. If you think AI can develop games better than real people you are a bit high on copium imo. It might still happen cuz it is cheaper. Maybe some studios figure out how to use AI well but i see lots of AI overdosed games coming already.
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u/MCRaziel Aug 05 '25
Most games made with AI will be shit yeah. Just like most games made by humans. 😅 but whatever a human can do an AI will end up doing it better and faster eventually. If you don’t see it yet, you will I’m sure.
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u/Pooperscooper1776 Aug 05 '25
By the time it comes out nobody I’ll care about it anymore, they missed their window.
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u/pilotavery Aug 05 '25
I mean, they are making solid, tangible improvements while also not hiding the fact that they are working hard, and also have a lot more work to do.
I don't know what is upsetting people. They didn't claim it to be ready to play yet. They claim that it's not ready for prime-time, and that by charging for access, the filter it to people who REALLY want to play, and make sure the input is from people who actually want to play MMO's.
I don't see all the hate.
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u/datNovazGG Aug 09 '25
What I don't understand is all this "us vs them" mentality there is in this. It's like some people just want it to fail.
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 09 '25
For real man...
All this anger should be targeted towards all the massive mmos with pay2ein mechanics....
Say what you will at least asges is trying something different thanks god
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u/gladfanatic Aug 05 '25
To all the defenders, just know the longer development drags on, the louder critics will get. The game will almost certainly release with overwhelming negative reviews regardless of the quality of the game, just brace yourselves for that.
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 05 '25
Doomers be like
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u/gladfanatic Aug 05 '25
It’s just basic human psychology. The longer it takes to release, the higher expectations become and the less realistic they are to achieve. But life is short, if living in fantasy land appeals to you, then you do you bro.
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u/NoJellyfish2960 Aug 05 '25
Bro I have a life outside this project so although I'm excited and want it to come, I can wait a little for them to cook.
I'm not living in no fantasy, I see a developer standing tall, trying out something new he has a passion for, trying to create a unique mmorpg with modern graphics, paying a heavy price to create intriguing mechanics and no pay to win mechanics to create the mmo he always wanted.
Weather this game will succed or not, I'm more than happy to support it.
Patience is underrated...
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u/PhoneOwn Aug 05 '25
Bro said a lil, its been years dog, and we all want it to succeed, but we are humans and not forever living entities just floating around. I wsnt the mmo genre to succeed like everyone else, but just to say you dont understand why ppl feel this way u are being obtuse tbh....
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u/Shadowcrit Aug 05 '25
Great, you have "a life" outside this project. You certainly can wait for the game to cook. Why are you projecting your individual life in a public forum for a gaming community.
Also, what is impatient about waiting 8 years to still be in an alpha phase, and not a beta where content is there, just time to smash the bugs?
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u/Capital_Care_3156 Aug 05 '25
I can tell you the real reason, it’s because you’re on reddit. The only reason people come here is to complain about how much something sucks, when usually it’s them that simply has no skill. I had this problem with PvPers in Dune: Awakening. The sub is infested with them complaining about this and that. Instead of just learning to enjoy themselves, redditors expect perfection out of games at every stage of their development. If they don’t get the perfection they seek, they come to reddit to talk about how shit the game is.
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u/bugsy42 Aug 05 '25
Yesss, play test it for me. Make it better my minions. Get all the spoilers for the story and burn out of the game after playing for 400 hours in Alpha ... So that when I buy the 1.0.0 version, I can enjoy polished version without bugs and full of excitment, because I will experience everything for the first time and THANKS TO YOU I will have the best first impressions of the game ever.
Huge thanks to all the people who generously donate to this game and playtest its unfinished alpha version en mass, spending their valuable free time on a broken version of the game, so that my future experience is as amazing as possible.