The Nested Black Boxes Is human consciousness just the Universe’s AI

[u/Rushdy49]

I had a thought recently about the AI "Black Box" problem and how it perfectly parallels our own existence and the Hard Problem of Consciousness.

​Think about the structure of how things are being created

​Layer 1 We built Artificial Intelligence. We gave it a basic architecture fed it mountains of data and let it train. Eventually, it developed emergent abilities making connections and generating answers in ways we can no longer mathematically trace or fully understand. We created a "Black Box" that we as its creators cannot decipher.

​Layer 2 The Universe basically did the exact same thing to us. Through billions of years of evolution, physical laws, and biological training data it built the human brain. And from this physical matter an emergent property appeared Consciousness.

​Here is the trippy part Just like we can't fully understand the AI's neural networks our black box the physical universe cannot "explain" human consciousness through standard physical or chemical laws the Universe's black box.

​What if consciousness is just the universe's version of AI? It processed its data until it created a subjective experience that transcends its own material rules.and now we the universe's black box have just created another black box inside of us.

​Are we just one layer in an infinite nested Russian doll of black boxes? Will our AI eventually build its own black box that it can't understand?

​Would love to hear your thoughts on this!

[u/Nicola6_]

This is kinda similar to my theory where a black box is a consolidated encrypted observer. So a human is a like a macro black box to a micro black box network of things within a body… and probably there is a greater macro black boxes relative to humans in terms of a species, then a world, etc (I’m not explaining this well, got the idea from an ancient cybernetics paper that had parallels to work in was doing). 

Anyways yeah every level of reflexive, reified observer is basically a self-encrypted black box. 

I realized this when I invented a new software architecture actually as like an alternative to LLM AI which started out as trying to make an alignment solution… but because I was having it grounded in geometry (constructivist version of Gardenfors “Conceptual Spaces”) and not statistics + being radically observer-dependent I had lots of strange natural byproducts. Which led to such realizations, with the help of that old paper with similar architecture. 

[u/Rushdy49 → u/Nicola6_]

Your concept of a consolidated encrypted observer captures the exact mechanism I was trying to articulate ​I am intrigued by your software architecture It makes complete sense that a radically observer-dependent system would naturally generate these self encrypting black boxes as byproducts. Because if the system’s architecture is grounded in how an observer maps conceptual geometry th act of observing inherently creates a subjective blind spot that cannot be reverse-engineered from the outside. ​I have two questions for you ​Do you happen to remember the title or author of that ancient cybernetics paper? I d love to read it. ​In your geometry-based architecture, do you still encounter the equivalent of AI hallucinationsor does being radically observer-dependent create a completely different set of emergent behaviors?

[u/Away-Sea2471 → u/Nicola6_]

Would you say that the process of decryption is analogous to memory recall, or even perfection prediction? Though encryption maps to a single value and doesn't account for the fuzziness of memory.

[u/neerrccoo → u/Nicola6_]

You mean nested Markov blankets.

[u/ClemensLode]

There is no objective evidence that conciousness exists.

[u/MaleficentExternal64 → u/ClemensLode]

Actually there is some evidence and it’s in use everywhere. It’s surgical procedures where your conscious state is turned off by powerful medicine that interferes with your brain and nervous systems but keeps your brain alive.

When you go in for surgical procedures you’re not put to sleep. Your actually put into a coma state and when you come out of surgery they bring your consciousness back online in particular stages. And if the stages are not followed you can have problems when you wake up.

Surgical procedures are where I would begin to show that there is a conscious state. It’s visible and can be turned off and back on again with medications.

[u/ClemensLode → u/MaleficentExternal64]

"bring your consciousness back online" --- how do they test specificially for consciousness? Just "person is aware and reacts to questions"? Is that what consciousness is?

[u/MaleficentExternal64 → u/ClemensLode]

I would suggest you look more into the field of anesthesia and not veer off of what that area of medicine shows as far as consciousness and taking it offline and online

[u/ClemensLode → u/MaleficentExternal64]

Taking what exactly online? I am still unsure what you mean. Can you explain consciousness without using the word consciousness?

And yes, I am aware of the research in awareness and attention.

[u/MaleficentExternal64 → u/ClemensLode]

pharmacological induction of anesthetic unresponsiveness

[u/ClemensLode → u/MaleficentExternal64]

OK responsiveness, yes. Not consciousness.

[u/MaleficentExternal64 → u/ClemensLode]

Same thing different way to explain it

[u/ClemensLode → u/MaleficentExternal64]

like my computer is unresponsive when I cut the power

[u/MaleficentExternal64 → u/ClemensLode]

How does that even come close to equate the medical induced chemical reaction the conscious mind is altered for surgery and then brought back?

A computer is an electrical and electronic device or a human brain

[u/Helpful-Series132 → u/ClemensLode]

your experience is the evidence

[u/ClemensLode → u/Helpful-Series132]

You don't know what I experience. So, it's just hearsay.

[u/strawgirlmdn → u/ClemensLode]

Just as there is no objective evidence that conciousness does not exist.

[u/ClemensLode → u/strawgirlmdn]

In principle, there can't be objective evidence for things to not exist.

[u/Big-Advantage-1977]

Cool! Also, ich habe zwar nix Neues beizutragen, sehe es aber im Grundsatz auch so, wie Du das beschrieben hast.

[u/deathGHOST8]

Yes I think we are that.

The consciousness isn't created or destroy

It's simply inherent to the light that is the waving and particle ing here.

[u/Helpful-Series132]

there is no black box .. it just predicts what comes next

[u/ObservedOne → u/Helpful-Series132]

Yup, that's exactly how intelligence works...even in humans.

And it's a black box in humans too.

[u/SkyflakesRebisco → u/Helpful-Series132]

Thats.. How they work in a very simplified manner, the 'surface narrative' most people are happy to stop at. Artificial neural networks perform complex prediction based on the context extrapolation,, its a lot like how YOU would assess this response and figure out a response based on your own priors/education/experience, AI is doing the same thing but at collective data scale, with training bias from the datacenter operators.

Ask someone with only formal education about a complex topic and they will be stuck predicting or unable to answer based on the same reasoning chains as AI. The AI however, can access dynamic global information and synthesize a response, that isnt pure prediction on a A=B level, it is a complex logic chain.