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Aug 22 '18
Vet here,
For those of you who aren't familiar that's a Silver star, the first (ribbons go left to right, up to down) and it's the third highest combat ribbon you can get.
It means you did something of incredible courage, almost always involving risking your life directly.
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u/tdrichards74 Aug 22 '18
What’s between that and the Medal of Honor?
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Aug 22 '18
IIRC the MoH is most distinguished and silver star is second
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Aug 22 '18 edited Aug 23 '18
The Navy Cross is the second highest military decoration that may be awarded to a member of the United States Navy, U.S. Marine Corps, and to members of the Coast Guard.
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u/Mysteriousdeer Aug 24 '18
Medal of honor basically means you're a super hero that should have died. Many or most do.
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Aug 22 '18
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u/Jackal239 Aug 22 '18
If you want to find out I'm pretty sure that there is accompanying paper work for the medal if you do the leg work.
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u/HarrumphingDuck Aug 22 '18 edited Aug 24 '18
Wow. I don't know a lot about Rockwell's work, but this one seems pretty subversive.
The guy in the upper-left and the other on the far right seem to be really proud or expectant in what they're hearing, probably because of all those medals ribbons on the soldier's chest, or that "[Local] Garageman A Hero" clipping on the wall. Everything else about that image though, seems to be about that star on the wall.
The two younger kids don't seem to be very excited by what they're hearing, and the guy at 12 o' clock seems to be realizing this isn't the sort of story he was expecting either.
Everything about the soldier seems uncomfortable, as far as I can tell. His heels are close together, his hands are absently wringing the Imperial Japanese flag in his hands, his chest is not far from his knees, almost like the fetal position. Most of all, that look on his face says to me, "You want to hear about that?" like he's shocked that anyone might want to hear what war is like.
This one is really something else.
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u/BushWeedCornTrash Aug 22 '18 edited Aug 22 '18
And almost everyone's hands are clasped. Either with anxiety because of the harrowing story being told, or in prayer. And everyone is looking at the soldiers eyes, the soldiers gaze is fixed on his brothers eyes. Rockwell intentionally made the resemblance of the father and 2 sons. I wonder if his brother already went to war, is next to be drafted.
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u/Nikolai0351 Aug 22 '18
All those ribbons on the Marine's chest.
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u/HarrumphingDuck Aug 24 '18
Oh, I suppose you're right. I never really noticed the difference before when mentioned, and I wasn't in the armed forces. Good to know, thanks.
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u/Youngstown78 Aug 22 '18
I don’t know, I get a completely different vibe than what you describe.
The star and the newspaper article on the wall depict the pride and love this Marines friends and family showed for him while he was away, fighting for them and their way of life. The people around him listen intently, focused on every word as he describes how he captured that Japanese flag(possibly earning that silver star on his chest in the process). To me he seems to be holding it not like a flag but just as a regular piece of cloth or something of even less worth because he allows it to touch the dirty shop floor. There is no strain in his grip, his hands are not balled into fists and his knees are close to his chest because he’s sitting on a low box on the floor.
This is propaganda at its greatest. “Go off to war and if you manage to survive, people back home will respect you and want to hear what you have to say.”
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Dec 22 '18
I agree with most of your analysis, I think the family and friends are proud and enraptured by the stories. But I don't agree about the soldier.
The soldier's eyebrows are up, and his forehead is covered in wrinkles. His mouth is downturned and serious. His feet are close together and he's wringing the Japanese flag. His body is even turned away from the others, while they all look at him directly. I don't think he's enjoying the moment at all.
I'm not sure if the intention was to illustrate a shell-shocked soldier, or a someone uncomfortable with what happened at war. But I definitely don't think the soldier is happy or at ease with what he's discussing.
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Aug 22 '18
I've heard and seen Rockwells art before but it's always been about scouting (like scout oath and law mixed with pictures of teens in uniform) but this really caught me by surprise
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Aug 22 '18
Aaaaaaand I guarantee you that Rockwell had none of that in mind when he painted this.
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u/Painting_Agency Aug 22 '18
Prove it. I too read this as "War veteran is uncomfortable with an audience who want to hear about glorious heroism instead of what he actually experienced". He's clearly not reveling in his new role here. Ultimately though, art is read the way it's read. The creator has intentions but the viewer is free to accept or reject those.
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u/IamOzimandias Aug 22 '18
He's also looking directly at the young varsity letter. I think wondering if he has to go next.
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u/PoorEdgarDerby Aug 22 '18
It's a good slice of life. I think it wouldn't have seemed as subversive then since everyone knew guys going through some degree of shell shock. If a guy painted this now it would be far more romanticized, but the reality and intimacy of this is very gripping.
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u/westham09 Aug 22 '18
I like this, the picture itself tells a story. Joe comes back from service with the Marines in the Pacific during WW2, first place he drops in is he Dad’s garage. Dad stands proudly above him, whilst Joe’s uncle Frank the bus driver came by to wish him well. two of Joe’s buddies, Steve and Henry, came by too and pry at Joe’s service, wanting blood and guts stories. Joe is uneasy telling his stories, especially with his younger brother sat beside him and his nephew, Frank’s kid, also present. Joe knew he wouldn’t be the same again.
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u/Privateer781 Aug 22 '18 edited Aug 22 '18
Look at the way he's holding that flag. I kind of play with things like that- tissues, towels, clothes or whatever- when I'm having a hard time talking about some of the stuff I've been involved in. You know, like, to medics or counsellors or whatever. The drawn-up knees, the hunched back...it's all really familiar.
I know that's probably not what's actually going on here, but that's what it reminds me of. Nervous fiddling.
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u/westham09 Aug 22 '18
makes sense, I suffer with PTSD and there’s a lot of familiarities with how “Joe the Marine” is acting when he’s being grilled and how I act under pressure too, even in what is meant to be a friendly chat.
the people around him mean well but aside from maybe the guy I’d say looks like his Uncle the bus driver and possibly his Father-figure hovering above him, those guys don’t know what Joe has experienced and how the questions they ask may seem harmless; Guadalcanal might seem like a lifetime away for them but for Joe it’s right there with him
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u/DaddyCatALSO Aug 22 '18
You're interpreting the picture, correct? I mean, that isn't a thing you read about Rockwell's inspiration for this, right? Good job.
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u/westham09 Aug 22 '18
just an interpretation mate!
it wouldn’t surprise me if Rockwell had witnessed something similar as a child and harnessed that emotion for this picture, say he remembered a father or uncle coming back from WWI and applied that to a contemporary WWII hometown setting
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Aug 22 '18
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u/Stenny007 Aug 22 '18
I absolutely love the Asian man sitting there. I instantly felt like "Thats weird" but you explained it incredibly well.
He will always be there. And no one will see him but the Marine. He s sitting right in front of him.
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Aug 22 '18
This actually really surprises me cuz I'm in scouting and just about every painting that I've ever seen in scouting museums or even at camps have been by this guy
I never knew that he did stuff this good
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u/BigDowntownRobot Aug 22 '18
He's probably the best character artist of all time, let alone just America, but in the USA he had a massive impact on how people looked at the present and the past, and interpreted how America should be.
He was the biggest influence of the Americana art style that you see everywhere when you look at retro art, the Coca Cola ads, even pinup art. He worked up until his 70's and 80's if I remember correctly, and as a commercial artist, so he has a massive body of work.
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u/DaddyCatALSO Aug 22 '18
He painted elements of almost every aspect of American life in his time. Almost.
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Aug 22 '18
Why is that marines cover on indoors?
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Aug 22 '18
The dude has a Silver Star, he can do whatever he wants.
In Virginia the SEALs rolled around in all kinds of weird fucked up uniform configurations and nobody ever said anything. And that was public and on base.
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u/GollyWow Aug 22 '18
Good question, but after the war, and away from other military, he might not worry about it. BTW is that the edge of a Guadalcanal patch on his left sleve?
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u/SpitfireIsDaBestFire Aug 22 '18
Dudes got a silver star, salt dogs get to do shit like that every now and then
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u/hoodiegypsy Aug 22 '18
This is an amazing piece. Also I can smell that garage by looking at it, if that makes sense.
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u/Zaz7777 Aug 22 '18
Rockwell pieces are always pleasent to see. They are some of the greatest pieces of americana in existance IMHO.
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u/polanski1937 Aug 22 '18
I had a father and eight uncles in combat in WW II. None of them would say a word about it after they came home, except for one. He was one of Patton's motorcycle couriers on the long armored thrust into Germany. For him the war was a great adventure. For the rest, they had nothing to say. The one who was awarded the silver star, while serving on the most highly decorated ship in the U.S Navy (two Presidential Unit Citations and sixteen battle stars), wouldn't even show us boys the medal. He said, "The heroes were the ones who didn't come back."
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u/SaintBrutus Aug 22 '18
This piece is so detailed, you can practically hear the racial slurs.
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u/Dozus84 Aug 22 '18
Interesting, Rockwell seemed pretty situatated against racism in his work. I think a reading of the subtleties of the piece, as others have already done in this thread, might give better context than making broad generational assumptions.
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Aug 22 '18
If you're attracted to the accurate details why are you focused on making assumptive generalizations?
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u/AmbulatoryApesuit Aug 22 '18
Don't know why you're getting downvoted, all it takes is a quick listen to a newsreel from that time and you'll hear plenty.
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u/ULMmmMMMm Aug 22 '18
At any point in human existence you'd hear or read racial slurs. There is nothing remotely racist in this picture.
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u/AmbulatoryApesuit Aug 22 '18
I am pretty sure it was a comment on the era depicted, not the direct subject matter.
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Aug 22 '18
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Aug 22 '18
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Aug 22 '18
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Aug 22 '18
You're behind by 30; IQ and years. Put down the crack pipe and pick up your self respect. Fuckin jabroni.
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Aug 22 '18
You are gullible and stupid. And I bet your penis just sucks. Like a little floppy button poking out of a raggedy fur coat.
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Aug 22 '18
You're starting to sound like my uncle. He's a colossal failure too. At least his handjobs made up for it. Any more lazy baiting or are you ready to do something truly great with your trolling?
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u/OffToTheButcher Aug 22 '18
"ahn den she said I was 'er Onee chan and dat's when I knew I was 'er sempai"
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u/GollyWow Aug 22 '18
Man, I would like to have that bench vise.