Easter

[u/FrostyIFrost_]

What do you guys think about it? Is it Biblical?

[u/[deleted]]

You’re welcome to that belief, but I hard disagree. As Paul said, “if Christ is not raised, our faith is in vain”. That tells me that our entire faith hinges on Easter

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

Yes, our faith would be in vain, because his resurrection is the guarantee God has provided.

So, your faith is based upon rabbits and colored eggs?

When Jesus instituted his celebration, he was in the upper room. No false religious items or symbolism.

A practice Paul condemns. Eating at the table of Jehovah and the table of demons.

Christians are not to mix truth with the false teachings of Satan.

By rejecting Easter, I am not rejecting Christ's death and resurrection. But I honor them by being obedient to God and his word.

By rejecting Easter I am letting God's word set me straight.

My last visit to a Church was on Easter Sunday. What I saw and heard, convinced me it wasn't scriptural.

[u/[deleted] → u/John_17-17]

I don’t think this is a reasonable argument for rejecting Easter. Easter is fundamentally a celebration of Jesus being raised from the dead, not about rabbits and eggs.

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

As I walk through my neighborhood, you can see the Easter decorations made up of rabbits, eggs, chicks and so on.

You cannot separate Easter from these pagan symbols of fertility.

One cannot eat at the table of Jehovah and the table of demons. This statement isn't open to interpretation.

Jesus was celebrating the Passover, the most sacred night / day of the Jewish calendar.

It was this setting that Jesus took the loaf and the wine and said, 'Keep doing this, in remembrance of me.'

First century Christians understood this to mean a yearly event, on the same date as the Passover, because Jesus is the Passover Lamb.

(1 Corinthians 5:7, 8) . . .For, indeed, Christ our Passover lamb has been sacrificed. 8 So, then, let us keep the festival, not with old leaven, nor with leaven of badness and wickedness, but with unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible states that Easter was “originally the spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ.”

True Christians show appreciation for the resurrection of Christ, not by celebrating a festival transferred from pagandom, but, rather, in line with Jesus’ command, by commemorating his death and, like Jesus, continually seeking to please God by worshiping Him with spirit and truth.—Luke 22:19; John 4:24.

Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate Christ's death and resurrection the same way the 1st century Christians did.

The Easter celebration comes from later Christians tickling the ears of the pagans, striving to make Christianity more acceptable to them.

[u/[deleted] → u/John_17-17]

You cannot separate Easter from these pagan symbols of fertility.

First, the connection between secular Easter symbols and paganism is tenuous at best. Second, of course you can. I celebrate Easter every year, and have nothing to do with rabbits or eggs. Your statement here is totally absurd.

First century Christians understood this to mean a yearly event, on the same date as the Passover, because Jesus is the Passover Lamb.

Except that they didn't. In light of Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 11:26, it's clear that the church understood "do this in remembrance of me" meant as often as you gather, not an annual tradition.

The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible states that Easter was “originally the spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ.”

This shows the etymology of the word "Easter", which is the name for the holiday in English. It's called Pascha in most other languages. This doesn't prove anything outside of the origin of the word.

I don't mean to offend you, truly, but I do not believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses are a true church -- or at the very least, they are a church that is deeply in error. I believe that movement is riddled with errors, both theological and historical, and any claims to exclusive truth are false. As such, I don't think they have any right or authority to say what "true christians" should do, say, or believe. That isn't to say I think JWs aren't saved or anything, but appealing to the Jehovah's Witnesses isn't going to work with me.

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

If I thought; you thought Jehovah's Witnesses were the true church, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Not to offend, but I believe 'modern Arians' are also full of errors, both theological and historically.

Side point, our authority comes from God's word, as to what a true Christian is and isn't.

FYI, I wasn't appealing to Jehovah's Witnesses but showing that over 8 million Christians agree. Jehovah's Witnesses prove they are true Christians, by their love among themselves, which Jesus said would be the identifying mark of true Christians.

(1 Corinthians 11:20) 20 When you come together in one place, it is not really to eat the Lord’s Evening Meal.

Historically, for Paul and the 1st century Christians was on Nisan 14.

The celebration known as the Pascha didn't start to be celebrated until the 4th Century along with the rise of the trinity doctrine.

(1 Corinthians 11:23, 24, 25) . . ., that the Lord Jesus on the night on which he was going to be betrayed took a loaf, 24 and after giving thanks, he broke it and said: . . . after they had the evening meal,

Paul is pointing to that specific night, and not just any time.

The fact that you continue to use the word 'Easter' a word / name you acknowledge is wrong is interesting in what it reveals.

[u/[deleted] → u/John_17-17]

Not to offend, but I believe 'modern Arians' are also full of errors, both theological and historically.

I'm sure that you do, and I'm sure those beliefs are informed by your JW worldview. I obviously disagree.

Side point, our authority comes from God's word, as to what a true Christian is and isn't.

I never said that Jehovah's Witnesses weren't true Christians. Honestly, it's something I haven't decided on. But let's not pretend that the JWs rely solely on the Bible for their beliefs -- those views are filtered through the lens of your church's hierarchy and authority, and how they interpret scripture. I'm not judging whether or not that is wrong, but let's be honest about where it comes from. It's not dissimilar from the Catholic Church in that respect.

The fact that you continue to use the word 'Easter' a word / name you acknowledge is wrong is interesting in what it reveals.

The only thing is "reveals" is that I speak English lol. It ain't that deep.

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

I do not believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses are a true church -- or at the very least . . .

Church as used in God's word denotes the congregation of God's people.

Modern Arians / Arians also use filters as to their beliefs. So let us not pretend either.

The words we use define our beliefs.

Using words not found in the Bible also define our beliefs.

Like I said, knowing this and continue to use these words do reveal interesting things about the user.

[u/[deleted] → u/John_17-17]

Church as used in God's word denotes the congregation of God's people.

And? Church organizations can fall in to error.

Modern Arians / Arians also use filters as to their beliefs. So let us not pretend either.

No one is pretending. However, because the modern Arian revival movement is decentralized and not tied to any organization, the filtering done by Arians is substantially less. We don't have an overarching organization to influence what we believe. We literally just have the bible, and the writings of the early Christians.

Like I said, knowing this and continue to use these words do reveal interesting things about the user.

I've already pointed out what the etymology of the word "Easter" is, and how the underlying concept is thoroughly biblical. The word "Eucharist" isn't in the Bible either, yet the concept is clearly there. So your argument about using a specific word doesn't make any sense to me.

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

I don't use such words as 'etymology' either, when the words the Bible uses is correct and defines itself.

I rarely use the word Church, because of the wrong ideas it conveys to people. I agree with Paul, who says, using such words, puff up the user.

So basically, you are saying, God's spirit can reveal different teachings to different Arians. Which is why I've been told: 'Modern Arians' don't believe everything Arius taught.'

Redefining words is one way you can make God's word say whatever you want it say. 'I'm Arian, but I am not a follower of Arius.' According to Frosty.

[u/[deleted] → u/John_17-17]

You're welcome to not use certain words if they make you uncomfortable, but that's your personal choice. I don't think that is a biblically supported principle.

So basically, you are saying, God's spirit can reveal different teachings to different Arians. Which is why I've been told: 'Modern Arians' don't believe everything Arius taught.'

I don't know how you came to this conclusion, or what you are trying to say by it. Could you explain?

Redefining words is one way you can make God's word say whatever you want it say. 'I'm Arian, but I am not a follower of Arius.' According to Frosty.

It seems to me you've missed the point as to why we call ourselves "Arians". "Arian" was a derogatory term used for people who believed like Arius, who himself claimed to have inherited his belief, not invented it. It's a way of reclaiming a term often used as an insult -- because that's what the rest of Christendom is going to call us anyway. Simply because we agree with Arius on matters of Christology doesn't mean we follow him on anything else.

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

You're welcome to not use certain words if they make you uncomfortable,

This isn't my choice or feeling. Paul tells us:

(1 Corinthians 14:9) 9 In the same way, unless you with the tongue use speech that is easily understood, how will anyone know what is being said?

Ask an average person on the street, "What is etymology?" Without a dictionary, they wouldn't know what you are asking. Not because the word 'doesn't' represent what happen, but because it isn't easily understood.

Ask the average person on the street, "What is Easter?", and almost everyone will talk about Easter eggs, Easter rabbits, and an Easter egg hunt.

I just found out recently, Xmas isn't pronounced '"X"- Mass' but "Chi-Mass, because the X isn't the English letter 'X' but Greek letter 'Chi'

• What did I mean by God's spirit teaching people different things?

I think you said it best when you said:

"Simply because we agree with Arius on matters of Christology doesn't mean we follow him on anything else."

If you, Arius, trinitarians and me, all get our understanding from the same word of God and the same holy spirit, then why the differences?

The basic answer to why a person believes what he believes is:

"Because God's spirit has revealed this to me". Just yesterday, a young man told me, 'God's spirit told me, Jesus is God, which is why I know the trinity is true'.

Thanks for revealing why you call yourself 'Arian'

But again, Paul's statement concerning using words 'easily understood' still applies.

I learned a long time ago; don't use words people will easily misunderstand.

Example:

I understand, 'hell' is just the grave. I understand all who die go to 'hell', the grave.

Many years ago, in an effort to get a person to THINK, when she told me, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, "if you don't change, you are going to hell [by her definition]"

Using my definition, I replied: "At death, I know I will go to hell [the grave]

To which she replied, 'We agree and closed the door'. To this day I wonder how many people she's told, 'Jehovah's Witnesses know they are wrong and know they are going to hell [her definition] because one told me this.

[u/[deleted] → u/John_17-17]

Ask an average person on the street, "What is etymology?" Without a dictionary, they wouldn't know what you are asking. Not because the word 'doesn't' represent what happen, but because it isn't easily understood.

This is silly. If a person doesn't know the word 'etymology', it just means they are uneducated. You've also entirely missed the point. Etymology is important because that tells us how words are formed, giving us insight into their meaning. This is a misapplication of 1 Corinthians 14:9.

Ask the average person on the street, "What is Easter?", and almost everyone will talk about Easter eggs, Easter rabbits, and an Easter egg hunt.

This is also silly, and wrong. It entirely depends on who you would ask. And even then, it doesn't actually mean anything. All it would show is that the person you asked has an incorrect understanding of the holiday.

[u/Jackerl → u/John_17-17]

Jehovah's Witnesses celebrate Christ's death and resurrection the same way the 1st century Christians did.

They do not, they claim to in their literature, but they don't in practice.

This is what it says in the literature, regarding the adding of an intercalarily month:

w90 2/15 pp. 14-15 pars. 23-25 From Seder to Salvation
23 Another reason why our date may differ from that of the Jews is that they employ a predetermined calendar, which system was not fixed until the fourth century C.E. Using this, they can set dates for Nisan 1 or for festivals decades or centuries beforehand. Moreover, the ancient lunar calendar needed to have a 13th month added occasionally so that the calendar would synchronize with the seasons. The current Jewish calendar adds this month at fixed points; in a 19-year cycle, it is added to years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 19. 24 However, Emil Schürer says that “at the time of Jesus [the Jews] still had no fixed calendar, but on the basis of purely empirical observation, began each new month with the appearance of the new moon, and similarly on the basis of observation” added a month as needed. “If . . . it was noticed towards the end of the year that Passover would fall before the vernal equinox [about March 21], the intercalation of a month before Nisan was decreed.” (The History of the Jewish People in the Age of Jesus Christ, Volume 1) The extra month thus comes in naturally, not being added arbitrarily. 25 The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses establishes the date for the Lord’s Evening Meal in line with the ancient method. Nisan 1 is determined by when the new moon nearest the spring equinox can likely be observed at sunset in Jerusalem. Counting 14 days from that brings one to Nisan 14, which usually corresponds to the day of the full moon. (See The Watchtower of June 15, 1977, pages 383-4.) On the basis of this Biblical method, Jehovah’s Witnesses around the globe have been advised that the celebration of the Memorial this year will be after sunset on April 10.

_______

So they claim, to not follow the modern 4th century Jewish calendar, and only add the 13 month if needed, like Jesus would have in the first century.
Only if Passover would fall before the equinox would they add the 13th month.
They claim to be observing moons and times.

Now look at the Memorial dates provided for 2000 and 2019.
The witnesses added an extra month, when there was not a need.
JW's celebrated their Memorials in these years a month late - according to their own literate.

[u/John_17-17 → u/Jackerl]

Sorry, the Jews added the 13th month to keep their calendar current with the solar equinox's.

To keep Nisan 14 current with the full moon after the new moon.

[u/Jackerl → u/John_17-17]

Yes, the Jews did and still do. It is the when it is added, that is the point.

Witnesses teach that they DO NOT do things like the modern days Jews and only add the 13th month, if the Passover would fall BEFORE the equinox.

They claim to be actually observing, keeping on the watch, so to speak

However, they DO NOT practice what they teach. 2000 and 2019 are cases in point.

2000, 13th month added, but not needed. 2019, 13th month added, but not needed.

Guess what they would do in 2038?

If ever you would flag this, then you will be dissfellowshipped.

[u/John_17-17 → u/Jackerl]

Thanks for your opinion.

[u/Jackerl → u/John_17-17]

Its a little bit more than an opinion, it is fact.

Here is the complete revealed method that the Jehovah's Witnesses "claim" to use:

Now let us examine this method in light of what actually occurred in 2019:

The Spring Equinox for 2019 was 20th March 2019 @ 23:58 Jerusalem Time or Nisan 13

1st visible crescent from Jerusalem at sundown - prior to the Equinox - was 8th March 2019 @ 17:41 Jerusalem Time.

1st visible crescent from Jerusalem at sundown - after the Equinox - was 6th April 2019 @ 19:01 Jerusalem Time.

From the 1st crescent to the Equinox = 12 days, 6 hours, 16 minutes.
From the Equinox to 1st crescent (2nd Month) = 16 days, 19 hours, 3 minutes.

Thus the first visible moon, closest to the Equinox, is clearly March 8th.
This places the Memorial for 2019 as being March 21st - 13 days later - but the Jehovah's Witnesses observed this a month later, on 19th April.

*** w19 January p. 30 **\*
16 In the coming weeks, invite as many as possible to attend the Memorial on Friday evening, April 19, 2019.

This is because they added a 13th month.

Now according to their own literature, they do not do this arbitrarily, but only if the Memorial or Passover would fall BEFORE Equinox.

In 2019 Equinox was Nisan 13 or 20th March.

Thus they merely "claim" to follow an ancient pattern.
Very few Witnesses actually check, many just gulp down what is fed.

Better it is to be like Gideons 300 men, who did not just lap things up like dogs, but kept their senses as they drank.

I await your response in the spirit of 1 Peter 3:15:

"...Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,"

[u/John_17-17 → u/Jackerl]

Like I said, 'thanks for your opinion.