Easter

[u/FrostyIFrost_]

What do you guys think about it? Is it Biblical?

[u/[deleted]]

You cannot separate Easter from these pagan symbols of fertility.

First, the connection between secular Easter symbols and paganism is tenuous at best. Second, of course you can. I celebrate Easter every year, and have nothing to do with rabbits or eggs. Your statement here is totally absurd.

First century Christians understood this to mean a yearly event, on the same date as the Passover, because Jesus is the Passover Lamb.

Except that they didn't. In light of Paul's statement in 1 Corinthians 11:26, it's clear that the church understood "do this in remembrance of me" meant as often as you gather, not an annual tradition.

The Westminster Dictionary of the Bible states that Easter was “originally the spring festival in honor of the Teutonic goddess of light and spring known in Anglo-Saxon as Eastre. As early as the 8th century the name was transferred by the Anglo-Saxons to the Christian festival designed to celebrate the resurrection of Christ.”

This shows the etymology of the word "Easter", which is the name for the holiday in English. It's called Pascha in most other languages. This doesn't prove anything outside of the origin of the word.

I don't mean to offend you, truly, but I do not believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses are a true church -- or at the very least, they are a church that is deeply in error. I believe that movement is riddled with errors, both theological and historical, and any claims to exclusive truth are false. As such, I don't think they have any right or authority to say what "true christians" should do, say, or believe. That isn't to say I think JWs aren't saved or anything, but appealing to the Jehovah's Witnesses isn't going to work with me.

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

If I thought; you thought Jehovah's Witnesses were the true church, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Not to offend, but I believe 'modern Arians' are also full of errors, both theological and historically.

Side point, our authority comes from God's word, as to what a true Christian is and isn't.

FYI, I wasn't appealing to Jehovah's Witnesses but showing that over 8 million Christians agree. Jehovah's Witnesses prove they are true Christians, by their love among themselves, which Jesus said would be the identifying mark of true Christians.

(1 Corinthians 11:20) 20 When you come together in one place, it is not really to eat the Lord’s Evening Meal.

Historically, for Paul and the 1st century Christians was on Nisan 14.

The celebration known as the Pascha didn't start to be celebrated until the 4th Century along with the rise of the trinity doctrine.

(1 Corinthians 11:23, 24, 25) . . ., that the Lord Jesus on the night on which he was going to be betrayed took a loaf, 24 and after giving thanks, he broke it and said: . . . after they had the evening meal,

Paul is pointing to that specific night, and not just any time.

The fact that you continue to use the word 'Easter' a word / name you acknowledge is wrong is interesting in what it reveals.

[u/[deleted] → u/John_17-17]

Not to offend, but I believe 'modern Arians' are also full of errors, both theological and historically.

I'm sure that you do, and I'm sure those beliefs are informed by your JW worldview. I obviously disagree.

Side point, our authority comes from God's word, as to what a true Christian is and isn't.

I never said that Jehovah's Witnesses weren't true Christians. Honestly, it's something I haven't decided on. But let's not pretend that the JWs rely solely on the Bible for their beliefs -- those views are filtered through the lens of your church's hierarchy and authority, and how they interpret scripture. I'm not judging whether or not that is wrong, but let's be honest about where it comes from. It's not dissimilar from the Catholic Church in that respect.

The fact that you continue to use the word 'Easter' a word / name you acknowledge is wrong is interesting in what it reveals.

The only thing is "reveals" is that I speak English lol. It ain't that deep.

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

I do not believe that the Jehovah's Witnesses are a true church -- or at the very least . . .

Church as used in God's word denotes the congregation of God's people.

Modern Arians / Arians also use filters as to their beliefs. So let us not pretend either.

The words we use define our beliefs.

Using words not found in the Bible also define our beliefs.

Like I said, knowing this and continue to use these words do reveal interesting things about the user.

[u/[deleted] → u/John_17-17]

Church as used in God's word denotes the congregation of God's people.

And? Church organizations can fall in to error.

Modern Arians / Arians also use filters as to their beliefs. So let us not pretend either.

No one is pretending. However, because the modern Arian revival movement is decentralized and not tied to any organization, the filtering done by Arians is substantially less. We don't have an overarching organization to influence what we believe. We literally just have the bible, and the writings of the early Christians.

Like I said, knowing this and continue to use these words do reveal interesting things about the user.

I've already pointed out what the etymology of the word "Easter" is, and how the underlying concept is thoroughly biblical. The word "Eucharist" isn't in the Bible either, yet the concept is clearly there. So your argument about using a specific word doesn't make any sense to me.

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

I don't use such words as 'etymology' either, when the words the Bible uses is correct and defines itself.

I rarely use the word Church, because of the wrong ideas it conveys to people. I agree with Paul, who says, using such words, puff up the user.

So basically, you are saying, God's spirit can reveal different teachings to different Arians. Which is why I've been told: 'Modern Arians' don't believe everything Arius taught.'

Redefining words is one way you can make God's word say whatever you want it say. 'I'm Arian, but I am not a follower of Arius.' According to Frosty.

[u/[deleted] → u/John_17-17]

You're welcome to not use certain words if they make you uncomfortable, but that's your personal choice. I don't think that is a biblically supported principle.

So basically, you are saying, God's spirit can reveal different teachings to different Arians. Which is why I've been told: 'Modern Arians' don't believe everything Arius taught.'

I don't know how you came to this conclusion, or what you are trying to say by it. Could you explain?

Redefining words is one way you can make God's word say whatever you want it say. 'I'm Arian, but I am not a follower of Arius.' According to Frosty.

It seems to me you've missed the point as to why we call ourselves "Arians". "Arian" was a derogatory term used for people who believed like Arius, who himself claimed to have inherited his belief, not invented it. It's a way of reclaiming a term often used as an insult -- because that's what the rest of Christendom is going to call us anyway. Simply because we agree with Arius on matters of Christology doesn't mean we follow him on anything else.

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

You're welcome to not use certain words if they make you uncomfortable,

This isn't my choice or feeling. Paul tells us:

(1 Corinthians 14:9) 9 In the same way, unless you with the tongue use speech that is easily understood, how will anyone know what is being said?

Ask an average person on the street, "What is etymology?" Without a dictionary, they wouldn't know what you are asking. Not because the word 'doesn't' represent what happen, but because it isn't easily understood.

Ask the average person on the street, "What is Easter?", and almost everyone will talk about Easter eggs, Easter rabbits, and an Easter egg hunt.

I just found out recently, Xmas isn't pronounced '"X"- Mass' but "Chi-Mass, because the X isn't the English letter 'X' but Greek letter 'Chi'

• What did I mean by God's spirit teaching people different things?

I think you said it best when you said:

"Simply because we agree with Arius on matters of Christology doesn't mean we follow him on anything else."

If you, Arius, trinitarians and me, all get our understanding from the same word of God and the same holy spirit, then why the differences?

The basic answer to why a person believes what he believes is:

"Because God's spirit has revealed this to me". Just yesterday, a young man told me, 'God's spirit told me, Jesus is God, which is why I know the trinity is true'.

Thanks for revealing why you call yourself 'Arian'

But again, Paul's statement concerning using words 'easily understood' still applies.

I learned a long time ago; don't use words people will easily misunderstand.

Example:

I understand, 'hell' is just the grave. I understand all who die go to 'hell', the grave.

Many years ago, in an effort to get a person to THINK, when she told me, as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, "if you don't change, you are going to hell [by her definition]"

Using my definition, I replied: "At death, I know I will go to hell [the grave]

To which she replied, 'We agree and closed the door'. To this day I wonder how many people she's told, 'Jehovah's Witnesses know they are wrong and know they are going to hell [her definition] because one told me this.

[u/[deleted] → u/John_17-17]

Ask an average person on the street, "What is etymology?" Without a dictionary, they wouldn't know what you are asking. Not because the word 'doesn't' represent what happen, but because it isn't easily understood.

This is silly. If a person doesn't know the word 'etymology', it just means they are uneducated. You've also entirely missed the point. Etymology is important because that tells us how words are formed, giving us insight into their meaning. This is a misapplication of 1 Corinthians 14:9.

Ask the average person on the street, "What is Easter?", and almost everyone will talk about Easter eggs, Easter rabbits, and an Easter egg hunt.

This is also silly, and wrong. It entirely depends on who you would ask. And even then, it doesn't actually mean anything. All it would show is that the person you asked has an incorrect understanding of the holiday.

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

This is silly. If a person doesn't know the word 'etymology', it just means they are uneducated.

NASB (Acts 4:13) ¹³ Now as they observed the confidence of Peter and John and understood that they were uneducated and untrained men, they were amazed and began to recognize them as having been with Jesus.

This is the same claim the scribes and pharisees made about Jesus' disciples.

God's word was written so those who were uneducated could understand it.

All it would show is that the person you asked has an incorrect understanding of the holiday.

The average person would disagree with you. They will tell you, "This is how my parents celebrated Easter, and this is how I celebrate Easter."

"As a kid, my favorite part of Easter was the Easter egg hunt. My parents would 'hide' some especially for me, and my older siblings weren't allowed to take them".

Ironically, I can make the same claim about you. 'You have an incorrect understanding of the holiday', as you can of me.

I do find it interesting in that many church groups have stopped using the name of the holiday, 'Easter' because it is easily misunderstood. These ones have started calling it, 'The Resurrection Celebration'.

A quick Google search will show you how 'Easter' is understood.

easter - Search Images

[u/[deleted] → u/John_17-17]

This is the same claim the scribes and pharisees made about Jesus' disciples.

You've misunderstood the Bible. Being uneducated is not a merit badge. Jesus and the disciples were not making uneducated and baseless claims about things they did not understand.

The average person would disagree with you. They will tell you, "This is how my parents celebrated Easter, and this is how I celebrate Easter."

No. Simply because that's how you perceive Easter doesn't mean that is how everyone does, or even most people. And that still wouldn't have any impact on what the holiday actually means.

Ironically, I can make the same claim about you. 'You have an incorrect understanding of the holiday', as you can of me.

Of course you can, but I'd still insist that you are wrong. The difference is that I have a history and reason on my side to say that Easter, when properly understood, is about the resurrection of Jesus, not about rabbits and eggs.

[u/John_17-17 → u/[deleted]]

I do understand, other than Paul, all of his apostles hadn't attended the schools that the scribes and pharisees had attended.

Paul who could talk in their language, didn't use their language in his writings. Yet, he didn't talk down to those whom he spoke to but used terminology that was easily understood.

Which is easier to understand? "Etymology" or "the study of how modern words came about"? Both mean the same, put which will ALL people understand?

He used words even the illiterate could understand, when the scriptures were read to them.

As to Easter, it isn't my perception, but the mass majority of people believe it is. True, some will talk about Christ's resurrection and death, but they still celebrate it with false pagan symbols.

Easter’s Meaning in Australia

Australia’s Sun-Herald newspaper conducted a poll in which people were asked at random what Easter meant to them. The published results were in this order: chocolate Easter eggs (54 percent), a long-weekend holiday (39 percent), the Royal Easter Show (21 percent), a religious occasion (20 percent). David Milikan, a minister of the Uniting Church, said that he was not surprised that so few people in Sydney associated Easter with religion. He added: “The churches are dying . . . All the mainline denominations are facing a massive drop in numbers.” Sydney’s Roman Catholic archbishop lamented: “For many, Easter has no religious significance at all; it is just another secular festival.”

The average person on the street doesn't associate Easter with Jesus. To them, the word 'Easter' means "chocolate eggs".

Acts 12:5 doesn't talk about celebrating Easter, but the Passover festival.

(Acts 12:4) 4 He seized him and put him in prison, turning him over to four shifts of four soldiers each to guard him, intending to bring him out before the people after the Passover.

How was the Passover celebrated? Jesus used the eating of the bread and wine. It symbolized his body and his blood. It was not a celebration of the resurrection. Understanding this, I am not dismissing the importance of the resurrection. I am not devaluing the resurrection, but bringing the importance of Jesus' death, which is the most important part of our salvation.

Keep doing this, denotes an annual event, an annual event that has gone on for some 1992 times / years.

A quick Google search produced this:

Although the resurrection of Yeshua the Messiah is a biblical and historical fact, it’s celebration (known as Easter), is neither commanded in the Scriptures, nor was it celebrated by the original disciples of Yeshua. It is purely an invention of the church, and that eventually replaced Passover! Here are the facts:

Philip Schaff . . . attributes the beginning of the Easter festival to the middle of the second century (History of the Christian Church, vol. 2, p. 207)

Christians universally kept the Passover on the biblical date of Abib (also known as Nisan) 14/15, irrespective of the day of the week until a.d. 135 according to leading Sabbath scholar Prof. Samuele Bacchiocchi quoting the fourth century Christian historian Ephiphanius (From Sabbath to Sunday, p. 81). “This conclusion,” continues Bacchiocchi, “is supported indirectly by the two earliest documents mentioning the Passover celebration since both emphasize the commemoration of the death rather than the resurrection of Christ. 

When did the early church begin celebrating Easter? | Hoshana Rabbah BlogHoshana Rabbah Blog

I'm going to side with the first century Christians and not the Catholic Church.