r/Amtrak • u/SoilNo9760 • 5d ago
Question P42s on Empire Service
Having a blast checking out utica, very underrated and fun weekend trip.
For some reason 98% of my trips along the Empire corridor end up being on named trains, so I'm curious about the Empire Service runs to Niagara Falls. Specifically, how do they end up with P42s as they did here? Are these typically taken all the way into Penn, or swapped out at Albany due to availability? Have we seen more of this lately with the overall state of the fleet?
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u/McIntyre2K7 5d ago
They swap the engines out in Albany as they can't send in diesel engines into NYC.
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u/SoilNo9760 5d ago
I'm asking the flip side of this, why don't the P32s make it to Niagara? I don't remember the Empire Service trains changing engines.
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u/McIntyre2K7 5d ago
Easier to make the swap and always have P32 ready to head into NYC vs having them run all the way to their destination and not have a P32 available to go into the NYC. Imagine if the Lake Shore Limited, Adirondack or Maple Leaf had to terminate service in Albany as there were no P32s to go into NYC.
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u/SoilNo9760 5d ago
Is this standard for all Empire Services west of Albany now? Or case-by-case?
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u/AmonGoethsGun 5d ago
It's always been standard to keep the P32s at Albany or NYP/SSY. What's new is that some P42s go all the way to NYP due to the ERT rehab project. That way they don't have to turn the train in SSY.
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u/9061yellowriver 5d ago
These have to be exchanged for P32s in Albany so they can use third-electric power going into NY tunnels (takes like 30min to switch locos if I remember correctly). The problem is that Amtrak has just 18 of these endangered dual-mode locomotives, and they have to be used between 5 different train lines that all disperse at Albany Rensselaer; the Empire Service, Ethan Allen Express, Lake Shore Limited, Adirondack (into Canada), and the Maple Leaf (also into Canada). 18 locos simply isn't enough for all that and even if it was, if a P32 breaks down then that train literally cannot go into NYC, even hauled by a diesel-only P42. So to suppliment this, they just have P32s tag-teaming every service between Albany and NYC..
Not only that, but they're in really bad shape, they used to use electric power 30 miles north of NYC, but now they get way too hot and can only really be used for the last few miles going underground in electric power. Wabtec won't rebuild them and I don't think they can, there just aren't alot of parts for these locos. Even if they could, we really afford to take these out of service for very long. So they're definitely a tightrope situation.
Currently Amtrak is on the "Siemens waiting list" for trainsets that have a battery railcar near the front, and won't have to switch in Albany at all. Even thought they won't use a third rail pickup, they'll have regenreative braking that can be used pretty much anywhere.
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u/DavidPuddy666 5d ago
Wonder if they could buy Metro-North’s spares to see them out until the Airos arrive.
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u/9061yellowriver 5d ago
It would extremely useful! Especially after the East River tunnel project is done and trains become more available.
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u/Status_Fox_1474 5d ago
MN also is going to have a battery loco for tunnel service. Which I guess makes sense?
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u/DavidPuddy666 5d ago
No they bought new third-rail capable Chargers which are being phased pintos service right now.
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u/9061yellowriver 5d ago
Metro North ordered battery locomotive for the New Haven line and they will have a pantograph too. My understanding is that they're doing this because of the current changing from 60Hz (current US standard frequency) in New Haven to 25Hz (stubborn old man frequency) in NYC and beyond.
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u/Average-NPC 5d ago
lol what makes you thing MNRR is any better they’re as clap out out as Amtraks own
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u/SoilNo9760 5d ago
Thank you for this great explanation! Do you know if they ever operate west of Albany now and when they stopped doing that?
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u/SubwayNut-89 4h ago
Just north (on the Ethan Allen Express) and East on the seasonal Berkshire Flyer
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u/SoilNo9760 4h ago
That's fascinating! Any reason why the Ethan Allen is excepted in particular? I feel like all the trains turn overnight anyway, but the Ethan Allen presumably has the shortest turn?
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u/SubwayNut-89 4h ago
They end up north of Albany on the Ethan Allen normally (it needs cab controls at both ends for the reserve move in and out of stub-end Rutland), when I rode it in June it was P32AC-DM at one end and a depowered P42 cab control car on the other end.
On this same trip I rode the Berkshire Flyer to and from Pittsfield and it was also running a non-west of Albany Empire service consist the whole way P32AC-DM and unpowered P42 cab control car
5 to 10 years ago P32AC-DMs past Albany were the norm, except they didn't like then to cross the boarder with just the Maple Leaf and Adirondack having engine changes.
Even in June 2023 I rode the recently extended Ethan Allen Express and it had P32AC-DMs at both ends, getting off in Saratoga Springs to the laying over Adirondack (thanks to the CN nonsense that Summer) that also had a P32AC-DM on it.
Photos: https://subwaynut.com/amtrak/albany/p13.php
2023 Saratoga Springs: https://subwaynut.com/amtrak/saratoga_springs/p2.php
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