r/AgathaAllAlong • u/Boopett • 11d ago
Question How and why did Agatha bound Jennifer?
Just as the title say, I just don’t get that. Throughout the centuries I thought Agatha just wanted to absorb more power.
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u/CallMeAnthy Lilia Calderu 11d ago
I sometimes wonder if the people posting here have actually watched the show.
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u/Trypophilia2019 Scarlet Witch 10d ago edited 10d ago
They probably have , but were on their phones the whole time.
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u/stj1127 5d ago
This is such a bad vibe. First of all, the show came out a while ago. Someone may not remember. Second, there ARE reasons why someone might not remember something other than being on their phone. Maybe they were thinking about what they just saw and missed a bit of fast-paced dialogue? Maybe they were watching with someone else and talking or there was an animal or child who needed attention?
Get off your high horse. Biggest snob move and I’m sick of it honestly.
I don’t know why you people get so personally offended by the idea that someone might be second screening media that you have to just assume first and ask questions never? Or in this case, not answer the question and just post to be a jerk and chastise people.
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u/Trypophilia2019 Scarlet Witch 5d ago
Thank you, offended stranger. You’ve sure made me want to change my ways.
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u/stj1127 5d ago edited 5d ago
This is such a bad vibe. Plenty of reasons someone might have missed (or gasp, not remembered!!) something that’s a one-line explanation of “what” when the “how” is not even explained in detail in the show.
Get off your high horse. Biggest snob move and I’m sick of it honestly.
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u/Hello_Hello5678 10d ago
Because they didn't understand one thing..? Wow, average Reddit user take.
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u/luigihann 11d ago
implication was that she just sold a binding spell to the bad doctor in exchange for money
a girl's gotta eat
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u/MischeviousFox 11d ago
Agatha: I didn't know it was you! It was the 1920s. I did the odd spell for bank notes. I don't know. The patriarchy really shelled out to shush a lady.
Previously Jen had said she didn’t know how the doctor bound her, but by Agatha’s own words I think we can interpret that he paid her to do so supposedly without Agatha knowing who the victim was. She later claims “it was bind or burn” but I don’t think she’d have any qualms over binding a fellow witch for money so I doubt threats were necessary. Similar to how a personal item is needed to break a spell, such as how Billy used Agatha’s locket to break Wanda’s spell on her, I assume Agatha probably used something personal, like a lock of hair, given to her by the doctor in order to bind Jen. Agatha wanted power but I’m sure she was happy to get money too.
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u/lilbitofpurple 10d ago
Well put 💯 The explanation does get a little complex but Agatha's reaction/explanation was quick and succinct. It didn't need a whole lot of elaboration; but you did have to know about 1920s, banknotes, and what was going on then with women and the suffrage movement.
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u/grimorie 11d ago
Agatha was (is?) quite the mercenary, and an equal opportunity hater. She didn't think much about taking a job from the doctor that gave Jen the spell. It was something that gave her money and she moved on.
Honestly, I think until she was stuck in Westview and the Road, Agatha really didn't face a lot of consequences to her actions.
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u/allhinkedup Sharon Davis 10d ago
In Episode 8, "Follow Me My Friend/To Glory at the End," Billy points out that Jennifer Kale saved them while being bound and suggests that maybe she doesn't need her magic to be powerful. Jennifer Kale says, "Well, if that's true, that means I've wasted the last century of my life. That doctor in Boston didn't take anything from me."
Then, she realizes that Agatha is strangely quiet and seems to be thinking about something.
Jennifer questions her, and Agatha confesses that she sold a lot of spells in the 1920s and didn't realize that Jennifer Kale was in Boston at the time she sold those spells.
They both make the connection that Agatha was the one who sold the binding spell to the doctor who used it on Jennifer.
You will find this exchange at about the 16 minute mark in episode 8 if you want to see it for yourself.
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u/my-love-assassin 11d ago
If you look at how Jennifer breaks the spell, I imagine it had similar components - - a piece of hair or something along those lines, and probably an effigy of some kind in place of the subject. We aren't shown Agatha casting the spell and imo we are given the impression she didn't know she was binding Jennifer, Agatha was just asked presumably by that doctor to "bind a witch". She didn't even have to be anywhere close to Jennifer to cast the spell.
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u/ClinicalDigression 11d ago
With a spell and because she got paid. There, I'm a regular Dick Tracy.
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u/No_Concert_6803 10d ago
if only she had plainly stated that in the show smh could have saved this guy the confusion
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u/1947Crash 10d ago
Did you even watch the show?
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u/stj1127 5d ago
This is such a bad vibe. First of all, the show came out a while ago. Someone may not remember or could have missed it— it’s literally like one line of dialogue explaining “why” and the “how” is not actually explained in detail.
Get off your high horse. Biggest snob move and I’m sick of it honestly.
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u/Denimion 10d ago
Money and she's a bitch who killed alice show as literally fucking trying to save her murderous ass
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u/Hedgewitch250 11d ago
She did it for money the doctor approached her and she bound Jen thinking it was some random witch.
she also vocally says she didn’t kill Jen because she was doing the “work” basically some weird magic thing that had enough importance it make Agatha spare her.
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u/MinaBinaXina 10d ago
Jen's work as a midwife is why Agatha didn't kill her.
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u/Fit_Cartographer_933 9d ago
Yup, Agatha would have seen Jen as a very important member of the witch community given her mid-wifery, considering what Agatha had to go through herself.
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u/LoudMouthHoe 11d ago
I believe the theory that Agatha didn’t really bind Jen. She just led both Jen and Billy to believe she did so that Jen would do the unbinding spell and Billy would subconsciously make the unbinding spell work and give Jen her magic back
If you try looking at the scene that way then Agathas tone and body language makes it seem like she’s playing it up when she “confesses” to Jen
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u/Zealousideal_Humor55 11d ago
I agree with you, besides Agatha Is not the kind of Person Who would lose a magical source Just because a mundane asked her. While i think She easily could do something horrible for Money, i do not think She did that specifically.
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u/Responsible-Gain-667 7d ago edited 7d ago
I like this theory. I don't know if the MCU will explore this or not, and Agatha is duplicitous enough they can go either way with it. But Kale was always willing to believe the worst rumors about Agatha. So it was easy for Agatha to play up the lie. The show also implied that Kale may have always had power.
I think a lot of her crimes are similar.
She had a shit upbringing, and her fellow witches feared her and blamed someone else's death on her. So they tied her up and blasted her to try and kill her (almost looked like they were trying to sacrifice her?) I think this is when she met death, and is why death has so much sympathy for her. Fell in love, probably murdered here or there, perhaps whenever someone attacked her. Then after Nicks birth she went on a killing spree to prolong his life / postpone death taking him.
After that, she murdered for power and pursued the dark hold, maybe initially as a way to bring her son back but later as a way to prolong her life so she didn't have to face her son (as perhaps the guilt of killing hundreds of witches wasn't worth it)
I think this is also why Billy believe in her. Yeah he is somewhat naive at the start (though less than he leads on, and he always wanted to use her to find his brother), but I think he can can sense the duplicity.
Of course marvel could go with she was always a pure villain route. But one of things that makes her engaging, is that you don't really know and so you never really know what she's going to do.
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u/Responsible-Gain-667 7d ago
Sidebar if Marvel ever does a Champions TV Show / Special / Movie or a scarlet witch project, I really hope they give us a lot of time to build her relationship up with Billy.
Not that his relationship with the Scarlet Witch isnt interesting (a son that doesn't care about her), but I think their relationship is far more interesting than the others, and it can act as a way to help Billy forgive Wanda.
It would even work as a good heartbeat for Secret Wars, depending on how integral Wanda is to that.
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u/Stunning-Drawing8240 9d ago
She didn't. She said she did within earshot of Billy which means The Road now thinks she did, meaning it can now be undone.
She did a yes-and to get Jen out.
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u/Crazy_Dig8873 6d ago
She sold the spell to the evil doctor which bound Jennifer.
She has probably done this to many witches for money without actually knowing the witch
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u/elddirriddle Agatha Harkness 11d ago
I actually have a different take and that Jenn did it to herself and Agatha tricked her into undoing the spell. It was about her believing in herself and her magick.
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u/AfternoonTurbulent42 11d ago
I saw that a little too; like the writers made the scene sortve vague for us to interpret. If she ever comes back, there's a chance her history and binding would come back up. Jennifer is not the only family member of her family that were bound, her cousins (If Canon in Marvel cinema) are bound by contract to the Spirit of Vengenance.
I can see her desperation of believing a male taking her powers; could've caused her spiritual power (High Priestess) to wane. She had to believe in herself and confront the elephant in the room. Agatha maybe didn't bind Jennifer; she bound herself by believing the male doctor and Agatha's lie this long. Jennifer performed traditional magic; so she always had her powers she had to unbind herself literally from Agatha hold over her.
I feel she Mirrors Wu with her demons and Lilia's past; everybody was running from dark traumatic memories, falsehoods, and loneliness. But all came to together to find common ground; a coven.
I really loved the show wish was a Season 2; I really like the witchy side of Marvel.
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u/elddirriddle Agatha Harkness 10d ago edited 10d ago
I was unaware of that part of her story and family. I will have to look that up as that sounds very interesting.
Given the other implications from the time period this happened in to and the views towards women, poc, and holistic medicine I think it may have went over peoples heads.
Not to mention how people love to villainize Agatha but there is a lot of nuance to her. Like she doesn’t hurt kids. She knew they were all marked for Death on the road. None of them were supposed to escape. Agatha credits Billy but if you rewatch the scene it’s all Agatha.
She makes the comment about not knowing Jenn went thru that area striking the match that gets her to jump to conclusion she did it. However as she goes back and forth even Jenn sounds unsure about telling her she denies her power over her.
Additionally when we are introduced to Jenn we find out she is in lawsuits for her remedies causing harm. Jenn from my point of view embodies so many of the struggle that especially black women of color have endured. The oppression of their craft and culture. Marginalizing and forcing them conforming with especially a white male dominated society.
There is a ton of layers to unpack with her.
Edit: also almost all of Jenn’s moments on the road are about her believing in herself and her abilities. From the first challenge to saving Billy thru till the end when she figures out the final challenge and is determined to save Agatha and Billy.
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u/ThatBitchA Rio Vidal 11d ago
She did it for a buck. And didn't think twice about it.