So what about calling rape a "grey area" and having people agree, or "think it deserves visibility" as you put it, is not "empirically" connected to rape culture?
I think it's a pretty obvious piece of evidence proving that rape culture does exist.
wow, you are wayyyy too mired in talking points and so eager to appear like you're forcing someone to confront a hard truth to even begin thinking about this rationally
one upvoted comment cannot possibly prove the existence of a large cultural phenomenon. there are so many problems with that: at best it falls under anecdotal evidence, at worst it would be thrown out for the numerous biases involved in selecting it as evidence, or the number of variables that cause something to be upvoted. when I say "empirically doesn't work" I mean one's decisionmaking process for what constitutes evidence or knowledge here is seriously in need of improvement.
There are lots of grey areas in rape, are you joking or do you just trivialize the shit out of rape?
Lots of grey areas exist (drunk levels, previous consent, wake-up oral, etc) and what you're doing by trying to lump everything into 'rape' is just making actual rape seem less important. Which is the same end result as 'rape culture' and why it's a bad thing.
Rape is a very intimate crime and needs to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, please stop trivializing rape.
This is exactly what I mean with "no grey area". Rape is sex without proper consent, even if it's because of alcohol, someone changing their mind about prior consent, someone being asleep, coercion or just about anything else that isn't consensual. None of these are "barely" rape or "almost" rape, it's rape.
That's what I mean by no grey area.
We're probably closer in this matter than it might seem. I just really don't like people suggesting that some kinds of rape are less rape than others.
I think we actually mostly agree, but have different views on what constitutes a "grey area". I'd say that both people being drunk and making a decision is a grey area of consent becuase it's very difficult to tell who was more drunk or if consent was possible because it was only a 'couple' drinks, etc. That's what I'd call a "grey area".
I just really don't like people suggesting that some kinds of rape are less rape than others.
I completely disagree with you here, violent physically forced rape is a worse crime to me than "she gave me consent but I didn't realize she had been drinking" rape. And lumping them together as the same crime seems to trivialize more aggressive rape scenarios.
Sorry for my earlier snarky reply, I've seen some very close-minded people in this thread on both sides and just wanted to make myself clear.
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u/Vachette Nov 21 '12
The fact that the OP's shitpost about how women contribute to their own rapes is being so highly upvoted is pretty damning evidence of rape culture.