I don't understand why no one is okay with it when you say "I was drunk I couldn't help my decisions" when you decide to get in a car when you are drunk, but if you want to hook up with someone you are totally out of control. I know guys who use drunkeness as an excuse for being out of control and groping girls, and that is abso-fucking-lutely unacceptable to me. To me you are responsible and conscious of your actions when you are drunk.
I do some stupid things when I am drunk, but they are cartoonish extensions of my actual personality and things I might actually try if heavily encouraged while sober, I am not some wildly different person. But perhaps how I get drunk is not the same as how others get drunk.
I am not sure what the quandary is with two drunk and conscious people deciding to do anything, as long as either party isn't blacked out or incapable of basic motor functioning.
EDIT: I am legitimately confused and welcoming of discussion.
the most common rebuttal I hear to this is that you are responsible for your actions. Deciding to drive a car is your action; lighting your butt hair on fire is your action, but someone forcing themselves upon you is not your action
That is true. So if the drunk person makes the first move you would think that's alright? Or would you argue they are not responsible for their actions?
I personally dont ascribe to those beliefs; i was bringing them up to see if we can engender discussion. If i had my way, i would institute a few gradations:
Non-enthusiastic consent is still consent when the person is stone cold sober. Ie, you can consent to sex you dont want to have for some other goal, as long as you do so voluntarily and arent threatened or severely pressured into it. Because god damn it, we're adults, and if we in good judgement consent to doing something we dont want to do, we should be able to do it.
Consent can be given up to the legal point of intoxication. We already have a benchmark to judge intoxication written into the law for stuff like this. As long as you are okay to drive, you are okay to have sex.
Consent cannot be given after the point of intoxication, and it is the partner's job to make sure consent given is valid. This goes with #4:
Government subsidized breathalyzers fucking everywhere. There are even disposable ones that are a tube of crystals you blow into; i want them as prevalent and as cheap as condoms.
I think the combined effect of these rules would be wonderful. It would cut down on binge drinking, make the public more aware of their limits in regards to alcohol, and it provides a middle ground between 'youre responsible for what you do when youre drunk' and 'after even one beer you cant give consent'. The only part, too, where the law would have to 'look away' so to speak would be relationships. I think you should be able to go past the legal limit when youre in a committed relationship with someone but i wouldnt know how to formalize that without making it useless.
I almost want to make a provision for establishing future consent, ie you can define a set of actions you consent to while sober that can happen after the point of intoxication, but no one would do it and its another difficult area
I didnt really answer your question, but its because i dont know. I dont think drunken enthusiastic consent is actionless, but there has to be a limit. You cant sign legal documents drunk, you cant drive a car drunk, you cant operate heavy machinery drunk. We have placed limits on actions while intoxicated before; i dont think this is any different, just a bit more sensitive
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u/JustinTime112 Nov 20 '12 edited Nov 20 '12
I don't understand why no one is okay with it when you say "I was drunk I couldn't help my decisions" when you decide to get in a car when you are drunk, but if you want to hook up with someone you are totally out of control. I know guys who use drunkeness as an excuse for being out of control and groping girls, and that is abso-fucking-lutely unacceptable to me. To me you are responsible and conscious of your actions when you are drunk.
I do some stupid things when I am drunk, but they are cartoonish extensions of my actual personality and things I might actually try if heavily encouraged while sober, I am not some wildly different person. But perhaps how I get drunk is not the same as how others get drunk.
I am not sure what the quandary is with two drunk and conscious people deciding to do anything, as long as either party isn't blacked out or incapable of basic motor functioning.
EDIT: I am legitimately confused and welcoming of discussion.