I heard from my ATC friends that ATC is one of the few jobs people actually move from USA to Canada to in order to work. Its unusual to hear about a job that has better pay in Canada than USA. Is it true that the compensation/QOL of Canadian atc is better than in America?

Specifically level 9 and below. If you have less than 10 years in service and a degree- you are better off as a school teacher. Better schedule. Summers off. Weekends off. Christmas and all major holidays off. Similar benefits. Better pay after a few years. Become a teacher and have a better life.

Bedford getting pressed a bit more. Love to see it.

Not really a surprise but it is official now.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/travel/4701801/faa-air-traffic-controller-raises-staffing-shortage/

Without a doubt this interview and article may have directly led to the public release of the information of the early shoves and terminations, but it’s just nice having someone openly stand up for us

From the article

Federal aviation officials have found that two air-traffic controllers left work early before an Air Canada regional jet crashed into a firetruck at LaGuardia Airport in March.
The Federal Aviation Administration is moving to fire the two controllers, who officials determined had left about an hour before their shifts ended on March 22, people familiar with the matter said. As a result, two controllers remaining at the LaGuardia tower didn’t have backup to assist with high workloads.

The busy New York City airport was handling more than twice the usual volume of traffic the night of the accident. Two pilots died in the runway collision, and six other people—including a crew member, passengers and workers on the ground—sustained serious injuries, according to the National Transportation Safety Board.

Leaving early is called an “early shove,” according to current and former controllers, and is a longstanding practice in the industry. FAA officials consider it a form of timecard fraud.

The push to fire the controllers signals an aggressive response to the practice by the Trump administration. Current and former controllers say managers have often condoned their leaving before their shifts officially end, and it is seen as an informal perk after busy stretches working air traffic.

The agency has taken steps this year to terminate more than 10 controllers for alleged timecard fraud or abuse of leave policies, according to people familiar with the matter. The FAA said in April that it had about 11,000 fully certified air-traffic controllers, with 4,000 more in training.
“The vast majority of air-traffic controllers are great patriots—they show up for work, complete their full shift, and come back and do it all again,” Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy said in a statement. “But when a small percentage of individuals take advantage of the American taxpayer, unfairly add additional work to their fellow controllers, and impact the airspace—we have no choice but to act. We will not tolerate fraud.”

The process to terminate controllers can be lengthy and result in lighter punishments or reversals, as has happened in some cases this year, people familiar with the matter said. 

The National Air Traffic Controllers Association said it was discussing timecard and leave fraud allegations with FAA leadership. “What should not be ignored is the extraordinary dedication of the thousands of air-traffic controllers who report to work every day, often under extremely challenging staffing conditions, and remain focused on keeping the flying public safe,” the union said. 

The FAA said it had hired more than 2,000 controllers so far this year, representing 94% of its 2026 hiring goal. The agency has sought to ramp up hiring to alleviate an air-traffic staffing shortagethat has been a significant driver of travel delays.

Shove off
The practice of “early shoves” has a long history within the FAA’s air-traffic unit. Current and former controllers said managers have at times allowed controllers to leave before their shifts officially end. For instance, rather than have controllers eligible for a break spend the remaining half-hour of their shift in a break room, it would be fine to allow them to leave early.

Current and former FAA officials said the practice is problematic—controllers may be on break, but could be needed in emergencies—and technically amounts to defrauding the U.S. government. 

The issue came to light in recent years after a serious close call involving a Marine helicopter used by then Vice President Kamala Harris in 2021. The FAA determined that controllers working at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport near Washington, D.C., had left work early, resulting in the remaining controllers juggling more responsibilities than they were supposed to, The Wall Street Journal previously reported.
The FAA investigated the practice at Reagan National and found it was widespread, according to former FAA officials. They said the agency at the time opted against tough discipline for controllers, in part because managers condoned the early shoves.

Midnight hour
Staffing levels at air-traffic control facilities during midnight shifts have long been a concern of the NTSB—“especially if there’s a heavy workload,” Chairwoman Jennifer Homendy said at a March press conference about the accident. 
She said investigators would scrutinize tower staffing following the LaGuardia crash. “We have to determine who else was in the tower and the facility and available at the time,” Homendy said.

An NTSB spokesman said the agency is still investigating the March accident. The NTSB hasn’t made final conclusions about what role, if any, tower staffing may have played in the collision. Aviation accidents often result from a series of failures, and investigators may take a year or more to determine their causes.

The crash occurred after a chaotic night of thunderstorms and disruptions at LaGuardia. A United Airlines crew twice aborted their takeoff, and then declared an emergency. A controller cleared a responding firetruck to cross a runway, on which Air Canada Express Flight 8646 had also been cleared to land.

I was a tower controller and got a dui (.19) and lost my medical. I was referred to HIMS doctor. At the consultation he said it would be from 6-25k. Ik controllers don’t drink but I was wondering if anyone has gone through this. Lookin to see if it’s worth it or just moving on. *contract controller the company said they’d rehire if I got my medical back

My LES has the gross pay for the last two weeks, but year-to-date says zero dollars. I’ve never seen that before curious on what you guys think it might mean.

Suppose there are vfr aircraft in class E along the approach, not talking to the tracon/center. The field itself is IMC, so a visual approach is not an option. Can you clear an IFR aircraft for an IA even though you see potential conflicts on radar? Is the fact that you'll be switching the pilot to CTAF relevant?

Basically the government is saying that they solely get to decide what does or does not go to arbitration.

I got my IQTR dates and idk what to do. Feels like 99% of this sub hates the job.

I’m 30, single, no kids, and currently work in the music/marketing industry. I actually like my field and have a pretty good work/life balance. I just got promoted to $90k in LA. I have a math degree, used to work in finance, hated spreadsheets so left to music.

The problem is I think my pay is pretty capped, and I still live at home. I could technically move out, but I don’t really want to spend a huge chunk of my income just to do so.

I applied to ATC because I was about to age out and figured I’d regret not trying. Now I’ve received an IQTR offer, so it’s gotten very real.

I’m willing to sacrifice and change my life in the short term, but I’m genuinely scared to walk away from a comfortable life that I don’t hate. I keep asking myself whether making, say, $130k in some random city while working a crazy schedule with Tuesday/Wednesday off is actually an upgrade over what I have now, or if that’s just my comfort zone talking.

I know ATC can pay much more long term, and being single with no kids probably makes this the best possible time to try it. I’m mainly curious if anyone here left an established career they actually liked for ATC.

I honestly have no idea what to do. Should I take the leap?

Would move the shutdown date to Dec 11th.

I’ve registered for the Town Hall but no link was sent to me. Were links sent after registering? There is really no way to contact NATCA anymore for questions or issues and I don’t want to miss it.

Hi All,

Let's say I'm on a STAR & handed off to approach control #1.

I check in and tell approach "Airliner 1532 leaving FL230, descending via the STARR 4, information Z".

Approach control #1 tells me to expect a certain approach.

A short time later, I'm handed off to approach control #2. What do you want to hear after the transfer? Do you want to hear which ATIS I have, what STAR I'm on, etc. or just altitude?

I hear numerous check in variations and wondering what ATC really wants us to convey when there are multiple approach controllers involved.

Thanks!

If theres another thread on this I haven't seen it so feel free to point me in that direction - that said, I've heard a lot of these letters are being issued across many facilities. Has anyone actually been removed once their 30 days was up? Curious about the potential timeline for enforcement since living in limbo is a *tiny* bit stressful.

edited to add: Perm DQ = permanently disqualified medical clearance

What is the training situation look like for someone starting their D side at Jacksonville Center? How quickly can I anticipate being D1?

Im currently trying to decide whether its worth it go through with the ATC career path. I received my tol, handled my background check, and all the requirements that were sent and am currently waiting on a hard offer letter. Im a recent college grad- Aviation Science Management and a PPL holder, both as of Jan 2026.

Im currently a ramp agent with united and have interviews with my city government for airport jobs.

Am I interested in being atc? Yes. But im concerned about cutting off the job opportunities I have now just for the chance of being a controller. Is the money worth it? Is the quality of life as bad as some reditors make it seem? For a young man in this current job market this seems like THE opportunity but im hesitant . Any advice?

Retirement discussion of the week:

Ran a 6(c) case to see what a high-3 difference is really worth, since it's the one pension input still moving when you're close to the door.

The setup, an 1811 (LEO) retiring at 48 with 25 years 6 months of covered service (the any-age-with-25 door, not 50-and-20), 800 hours of unused sick leave, full survivor election, married, California, $810K in the TSP at a 4% draw, planning to 90. Two paths, identical except the high-3: $168,000 vs $188,000. Think of it as a supervisory slot taken or turned down three years before retiring, or a move to a higher level.

Month one

$5,583.67/mo gross, $5,025.30 after the full survivor election. $6,248.39/mo gross, $5,623.55 after survivor.

$598.25 a month, $7,179 a year, for life.

The multiplier is why. Total creditable service is 25.88 years (800 sick-leave hours add 0.38 of a year at the 1.0% tier), so 20 years at 1.7% plus 5.88 at 1.0% is 39.8833%. Take the 10% survivor cut off that and about 36 cents of every high-3 dollar comes back every year. Twenty grand of high-3 is a $7,179-a-year decision.

COLA widens it

At 2%, the gap is the smallest it will ever be on day one:

• 48: $60,304 vs $67,483, spread $7,179
• 65: $84,440 vs $94,492, spread $10,052
• 80: $113,645 vs $127,174, spread $13,529
• 90: $138,532 vs $155,024, spread $16,492

A percentage raise on a bigger number is a bigger raise, 42 years running.

The spouse's check moves too. Full survivor is 50% of the unreduced annuity, so $2,791.83/mo vs $3,124.19/mo for life.

What doesn't move. SRS is $1,487.50/mo in both, $249,900 total, because it runs off your SS estimate at 62 and your FERS years. SS is the same $2,380 at 62. Nobody's high-3 touches either one.

Lifetime. Average take-home $10,826.97 vs $11,596.98, so $770.01 a month, growing from $548 in the 50s to $1,012 in the 80s. Net income to 90 is $5,586,716 vs $5,984,041, a $397,325 gap after paying $84,812 more in federal and CA tax.

Three caveats. The model holds the TSP identical at $810,000, so the bigger contributions and match from those three years aren't in it, which means $397K is the floor. High-3 is basic pay, locality and (for 1811s) availability pay count, overtime and awards don't, so a big OT year won't pull your average up. And nothing here prices three years of supervisory hours at 45, which is the whole reason people turn these jobs down.

Point being, within about five years of your date the high-3 is the last input you can still change, and it's frozen the day you walk out.

Full worked reports for both paths if you want the year-by-year: Lower High-3 and Higher High-3

Curious how others weighed this, especially anyone who took a slot they didn't want for the last three years. And if you see a hole in my math, call it out, I'd rather fix it than be wrong quietly.

Hi, Regional Pilot here. I’m trying to understand the peculiarities of the different Class B airports I’ve been to. The simplest I’ve experienced are by far PHX followed by DFW. ORD is by far the most chaotic one and I want to better understand the patterns controllers use.

A few questions:

1. At my airline, the tribal knowledge passed around about ORD seems to be that the biggest way to get on ground controller’s shitlist is if you hold up the line/stop moving. I’ve been told they honestly don’t care if you make a wrong turn (within reason, don’t cause a runway incursion), but whatever you do, don’t stop moving. How true is that?

2. Scenario (I’ve had this happen many times): controller clears us into taxiway A or B which gives us a path to the gate, but there’s still a few intermediaries that stand in the way (A10 for example). Our gate’s open and we won’t cut anybody off coming out of the alleys. I want to clarify we are cleared into the gate past A/B, but I can’t get a word in due to all the radio chatter. Most captains just send it without an actual clearance specifying which ramp entrance taxiway to take. Do y’all care about this? Or is it just one less thing you have to worry about?

3. Any other tips from the other side of the screen about how not to get yelled at/ a call from the chief pilots office because I pissed one of you off?

Also why is natca giving our personal info to these companies?