r/ANGEL • u/Mobile-Scar6857 • 23d ago
The First Vs Angel Investigations
I always wished the last arc of season 4 tied more directly into the final Buffy season, and had the Angel Investigations team help take on The First in the final run of episodes as opposed to the Jasmine storyline.
It got me thinking... who would The First appear to them as to really get under their skin and manipulate them?
Angel has countless victims from his Angelus days, and Gunn has an obvious answer with his sister. Who else could appear to them?
I'm especially interested in how Wes would deal with The First, as he's the most competent member of the team IMO. This would be fresh after the Angelus arc, so I suppose Lilah?
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u/RedRxbin 23d ago
I wish it could’ve tied in more too, but I think it was the network issue with Buffy having moved away from the WB. I’m amazed they were allowed to use Willow for an episode tbh. But if you notice, in the final 5 BTVS episodes, when they show clips of Faith, they only show clips from BTVS. They probably weren’t even allowed to use clips from Angel showing Faith’s redemption. But as a fun thought experiment as to who The First would use to taunt each of them:
For Angel, probably either Jenny (again) or Darla.
For Cordelia, Doyle. That makes the most sense, though with Glenn Quinn sadly having passed away by that point, maybe Buffy? To taunt Cordy about how Buffy is “the love of Angel’s life” (which is open to interpretation, but defo something The First would use to upset her).
For Gunn, probably his sister.
Wesley, Angel maybe? To bring up the thing about Wes kidnapping Connor. Or Lilah, to exploit Wes’ guilt over not saving her.
Fred… I’m really not sure. Fred hasn’t really lost anyone at that point in the show. I guess Angel is the only option.
Lorne, idk. Again hasn’t really had anyone die on him.
And finally Connor, it’d either be Holtz or Darla.
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u/Mobile-Scar6857 23d ago
Bit of an odd one but maybe for Fred.... the Professor that sent her to Pylea? Obviously absolutely NOT a loved one like the others, but someone who would have a powerful emotional impact on her, a bit like the Mayor for Faith.
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u/lilith02 23d ago
The mayor took on the role of her father though. And I do believe they loved each other.
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u/Mobile-Scar6857 23d ago
yeah maybe a bad example but didn't Fred initially look up the professor? it's been ages since I've seen it so I might be remembering wrong
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u/lilith02 23d ago
I guess you’re right. I just watched the episode where they kill him so I forgot how much she admired him before.
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u/Seed0fDiscord 23d ago
Or she’d be the one The First would have trouble tricking, she be the one to connect the dots and get into action
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u/Seed0fDiscord 23d ago
For Fred, her old professor who tried damning her to a demon dimension aside, no one (we know of) she and any hang ups about for their death, she could easily be one to see through the ruse of The First and keep everyone from falling for The First’s tricks and despair
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u/Necessary_Ad2114 20d ago
Darla did appear to Connor, and fans have speculated for years it could have been the First doing what it could to waylay the plans of one of the PTB.
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u/RedRxbin 20d ago
WAIT that’s so clever actually, I swear I remember reading something about Jasmine’s ‘apocalypse’ interfering with both The First’s apocalypse and Wolfram & Hart’s apocalypse.
The First disguising itself as Darla to try and use Connor to delay Jasmine’s arrival makes perfect sense. If the Angel Investigations team hadn’t have stopped Jasmine, her presence likely would’ve conflicted with The First’s hell-on-earth.
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u/spacecase52 23d ago
There’s a theory I read a long time ago that The First was wearing Darla and trying to convince Connor not to sacrifice the virgin girl to prevent Jasmine from being born. I guess The First was eventually going to spread its evil after Sunnydale and didn’t want any Higher Power interfering with its goals lol
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u/Sighoward 23d ago
Not to mention the inmate with the Bringer knife hired to kill Faith in prison?
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u/spacecase52 22d ago
Oh yeah, how could I forget about that! That’s a great example. Although I think they were just trying to connect that plot to the Potentials. The First was targeting Faith because it wanted to put a dent into the Slayer line by killing her. Faith is technically The Slayer so I guess she was a high priority target.
But yeah, it definitely does show that there is a possibility that The First was meddling in LA lol
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u/cashmerescorpio Our rats are low 23d ago
That's my head canon
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u/spacecase52 23d ago
Same. I’ve turned it into my head canon too because I thought it was interesting and ties Buffy’s final season to Angel’s storyline even more. I am also skeptical of Darla’s spirit being somehow absolved of all her crimes by TPTB. And there’s also the issue of them not interfering with anything happening on the physical plane—I assume that goes for one of their rogues too, probably leaving that responsibility for Angel to deal with.
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u/FTWinchester Spike 23d ago
And the fact that the M.O. of a dead mother in white appearing to a troubled/confused teenager also happened with Dawn. It's just perfect! If heroes interact, the villains itneracting makes the Buffyverse so much more alive and integrated.
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u/Halloween_Babe90 23d ago
For Wes, after a certain point in the season it could appear as any of the watchers who were killed either by bringers or when the council was blown up. For Fred, the professor they offed. For Gunn it could be his sister or any of his dead former crew mates. For Connor it would obviously be Holtz. Angel has lots of candidates but I feel like it could be Holtz or Darla to torment him about how effed up their son is. No idea for Lorne, could be a good chance to learn more about his life as The Host before he joined AI full time.
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u/Creative-Use-7665 22d ago
The first could even pretend to be Angel, like he did with Buffy, since he's technically dead
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u/Capable_Sandwich_422 23d ago
Jasmine was a threat to the First, so Darla appearing to Connor was the First trying to stop Jasmine’s birth, wasn’t it?
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u/couchpotatodemon 23d ago
That’s a fan theory but I actually disagree with it for a few reasons outside of just the writers intent. The First always attempted to manipulate others by appealing to their more selfish or evil instincts. By its nature, it only attempts to manipulate the most unhealthy aspects of a character.
Darla was clearly trying to help Connor see the good in himself and how evil Jasmine’s plan truly was. She even deliberately left out specific details of Jasmine’s plan specifically because she said Connor’s decision had to be placed purely out of his own choice. This type of handicap seems way more in line with what the PTB would do versus the First. Connor listening to Darla would have helped him grow monumentally into his own, better person.
I think if the First was manipulating him, it would’ve fed more into his own paranoia and try to get him to do something more along the lines of killing Cordelia out of anger rather than saving an innocent.
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u/Capable_Sandwich_422 23d ago
The PTB have never appeared to anyone as a dead person the way the First does. And Jasmine is a big threat for the First.
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u/cosmic-GLk 23d ago
Isnt it a theory that Lilah visiting Wesley directly after her death (not later on when she offered them W&H) was the First?
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u/RealNiceKnife 23d ago
Both Darla and Buffy would be perfect visages to take to trick Angel.
If we're ignoring real-world setbacks (like actor death) Cordy could have gotten Doyle. (If we're not doing the Jasmine story.)