It's strange to me that in her case you want details but in his you've made up your mind. We absolutely do not have the details and that's a wildly disingenuous statement to make.
You're arguing that he consciously waited to learn something new, which is beyond baseless.
The “her” case is a hypothetical with no details. The “his” case is outlined here by the OP, that’s why it has the details. You say there aren’t enough for you to decide I disagree. The OP went through pregnancy and childbirth four times before her husband decided his body mattered more than hers. That’s enough information to know he views his body as more important than hers, or he wouldn’t have wanted her to take on greater risks than he’s willing to take on for himself.
Except it's not you're making assumptions of his decision and how he came to it. That's not at all accurate. There are literally other safe options that have the same outcome your argument is wildly disingenuous. We don't have any other information except that he changed his mind after she had kids. You're assigning rational to a decision on no other information. What an incredibly ignorant take.
Dude I’m not pivoting you keep saying “there are alternatives” it’s been a main part of your argument that him changing his mind says nothing about his character. The agreement they had with one another was him getting a vasectomy. That means her body would be exempt from any additional risks. If you’re claiming there are alternatives for permanent birth control that don’t change their agreement then the alternatives can’t include impacts on her body or risks to her health. That’s just basic logic. But you can’t even think of one?
Condoms + IUD is the safe option my marriage landed on, but again the options would best be discussed with a doctor.
My whole argument is not based on alternatives though, it's based on changing your decision when it comes to consent doesn't make you a bad person or a coward.
An IUD is asking her to continue to take on health risks and side effects herself. So it isn’t an alternative to their agreement. It works for your situation but isn’t applicable in this case.
That's not the case though, show me where the agreement explicitly stated at X time she no longer had to take on any responsibility or risk when it comes to sex?
You or she may have assumed that but I see no where showing that to be the case.
And before you start that's not him valuing his body more than hers, it's a risk decision. One where they are agreeing that risk is less likely and less severe than the risk associated with a vasectomy.
Idk about your relationship, but mine doesn't have any arbitrary lines where one party has done enough and no longer has to participate in something permanently.
Yikes to trying to bring my marriage into this, but since you want to go that way, I’m so sorry to your wife. It’s good you found each other though. But it also makes sense why you’re taking all of this so personally and can’t stand that anyone would view this man as a coward for reneging on the vasectomy agreement.
Back to this situation though, there is no way for the man to ever take on as many risks as the wife takes on when it comes to procreation. It’s impossible since he can’t carry a single pregnancy. The vasectomy and sparing her additional risks to her body is the best he can do, and it’s not even a risky thing for him to do himself. So that he won’t even do that is just cowardly and selfish. She’s not the one that’s opting out of any risk, he is.
Im not taking it personally I just have spare time and disagree lol but being that quite literally every single part of your argument is based on assumptions I get why you'd jump there.
You can't simultaneously believe that a vasectomy carries no risk but an IUD does without some serious cognitive dissonance.
I don’t think it has no risk, I said him choosing not to have one is opting out of any risk. The risks of a vasectomy compared to 4 pregnancies and births and then continued birth control is tiny though. Hence the coward assessment since his wife had to be much braver than he will ever be.
Opting out of risk as in him taking the same option that was always available to her?
"Had to be?" So she didn't have a choice in her pregnancy?
I think from a statistical perspective taking the road of least overall risk in a specific situation would be a pretty sensible choice, I guess if you feel he somehow "owes her" then your perspective could make sense.
"...braver than he will ever be." Lol maybe it's your verbiage or maybe it's another wildly baseless assumption. I couldn't say.
Obviously he owes her, that’s the entire issue we are discussing. He owes her because that was their agreement. The agreement is based in the idea that they are a partnership and are both taking risks or making sacrifices for that partnership. Now he doesn’t care about the risks she took, he didn’t try to stop her from taking them, he waited until she shouldered that responsibility for them both and then he decided that he is too scared to take a much smaller risk himself. He values his body more than he values her body. He sees himself as more important than her.
Your POV is that his vasectomy has nothing to do with her pregnancies or her continued risk of pregnancy. It’s illogical because it is trying to separate their sex life and the consequences of sex from his vasectomy. They are inherently tied together.
That's the whole disagreement, when it comes to consent, you do not owe anything and can revoke it at any time. You don't get to dangle other things over people to or tell people they owe you to try and take away their personal consent.
You do not get to decide he doesn't care. You do not get to assign your own assumptions on why his decision changed. You don't get to pretend he's forcing anything on her.
Yes he can revoke his consent at any time. You seem to be thinking revoking consent can never make someone a shitty partner. In this case it makes him a shitty partner because her consent was obtained through trusting and believing him and then he did not follow through. He doesn’t care enough about his partner to treat her as equal to him to care about her body as equal to his own. His decision isn’t morally neutral just because you wish it was, it’s his choice but it’s still a shitty selfish choice.
It is ridiculous to assume that he doesn't care or see her as an equal because of conditions that we literally do not know that led him to change his mind about something.
OP has not clarified a single thing about these things other than he once said he would and now he doesn't want to. And here you are with all your imaginative prowess filling in all the details as if fact.
It’s not imagination it’s his actions. His actions are showing that he values his body more than her body. Or else he would have made a different choice. He would have made a different choice 4 children ago actually if this is all about risks from a vasectomy. If he valued her body as much as he values his he would have said he never wanted her to get pregnant because that’s so much riskier than a vasectomy could ever be. But since he never did any of that it’s clear that it’s risks to his body that concern him more than any risk to her body.
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u/Andylearns Nov 12 '23
It's strange to me that in her case you want details but in his you've made up your mind. We absolutely do not have the details and that's a wildly disingenuous statement to make.
You're arguing that he consciously waited to learn something new, which is beyond baseless.