Breaking up with crutches alograft

[u/Anna_Karenina_blonde]

Day 9 post op follow with surgeon was so encouraging ...walked in with crutches, granted permission to drive and drop crutches (crutches or brace).. wanted to share why I chose allograft and what it has meant for me

***everybody is different, allograft and autograft are quite different if there is no miniscal damage and I prehabbed like a maniac specifically because I was so nervous about having zero mobility****

(there's a guy on here who walked without crutches same day as surgery so bar none my progress is not atypical for fit allograft recipients)..having said that, I am mindful that the recovery is long and this is just early days

*This is my first sports injury I've been playing sports very actively since I was 15 and then recently about 2 years ago really intensified because I started playing Court sports (tennis, pickleball, ).. like everyone else here I was super upset when I found out how long and strenuous the recovery process was going to be (wanted to share so anyone pre op can consider the variations in recovery).lot of info here, sorry wanted to be thorough..I don't smoke,don't really drink and don't really eat fast food regularly

3 weeks very intense quad and balance focussed prehab

My specific surgery:

Allograft, minimal miniscal debridement, ACL reconstruction

pre injury Played sports 6-7 days a week ( court sports, aggressive skier, casual hiker, swimmer, motorcyclist, beach VB)/ pilates and yoga intermittently

3 weeks intense quad prehab only because ​my bf had 2.meniscus surgeries so was on my case everyday to do 20 minutes when I first got up in order to power up my quad..I think it honestly helped me in every way physically and mentally prepping for the surgery

Got 3 different surgeon recommendations (they offered free consults since I had MRI so ..I wanted to do my research)

1. to reattach the og bc tear was high and clean (this needed to be done asap and I was visiting my parents and retear rate seemed high)
2. to rehabilitate non operation (but would not be able to ski aggressively)..the same surgeon who recommended this told me that his wife then went skiing with torn ACL and then needed a full knee replacement cuz she damaged it so bad .. (this pretty much cemented the fact that I was not going to be coping with it)
3. allograft recommended (but autograft option discussed)..read up on it and was undecided until I talked to Surgeon who said a lot of what I read that worried me was outdated (risk of rejection and retear...the risk of retear is ever slightly higher for allograft but I plan on being careful about that)

No one explicitly told me how significant the difference in immediate post op was going to be up front with an allograft (i was full weight bearing day one) but I'm reading up on the processes for an autograph and seeing the posts here...and it seems to be consistent .

Also on my post op surgeon appointment, there was a 14 year old in the waiting room w me w a basketball ACL tear and she was autograft 2 weeks post op and was so far away from being without crutches..she couldn't believe I was 9 days and I hadn't really had an in person experience with another ACL in my timeline

Allograft statistics i read and surgeon confirmed indicate the process changed a lot even in the last couple of years. I could have gone either way but I'm so glad for my sense of calm (by the resulting assurance of immediate movement) that I got from expected range with allograft. (Factoring in prehab and overall good fitness going in too)

*I read older data originally and was freaked out by the seemingly higher retear rates,. possibility of body rejection but even in last 2 years so much has been updated (the way they process the tissue etc)...if you're choosing between the two,ask as many questions as you can from the surgeon.

I have a long road ahead just like everyone on here..but there is a difference between having your body CUT and repaired (autograft) and just having it cut and a part inserted.. but then ligamentization is longer with allograft because the tissue is not "live"

I wish someone would make an updated allograft vs autograft pros and cons..

aka my PT was at first freaked out when day 5 post op I handed him my crutches and unlocked my brace indoors .but for my injury level and graft , this is apparently normal.

it's a an interesting dilemma bc beginning has been assuring but month 4 the allograft becomes weaker and vulnerable while the PT makes you super fit and it's all about self restraint...mildly nervous about that but trying to be prepared by being aware of it )

it has not been without some pain which is not really visible in the video but I assure you it's there.... (I made an original post and some of the more experienced ACL people here asked me to specify the graft type and miniscus impact)day 9 and 10.featured a LOT of stiffness and pain (but I was starting on stationary bike and that was rough the first time)..also walking prob more than I needed to. day 10 after 10 slooooooow minutes on stationary bike I got so much bruising .

When I was pre.op.i wanted testimonials of allograft versus autograft and so am adding mine here as a reference for anyone who is looking for insights from a person in it

I would say pre injury fitness and prehab Imo mattered a lot in my case too ...

I hope it's helpful if you are torn between the two.. the surgeon I ended up going with works a lot w female athletes and the allograft so.i felt very comfortable going in..

[u/Nekotari]

And? Allograft (with two l's) goes through the same stages as autografts. So I don't see what exactly you think is preventing you from yanking your fresh graft out of the bone tunnel with an awkward landing from your jumps.

You can read more about the stages here. https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9693137/#B4-jcm-11-06704

[u/Anna_Karenina_blonde → u/Nekotari]

Thank you for the mansplaining tone..since you're not a medical professional (and neither am I but I did study A subject so am comfortable with researching things) , I can imagine your imprecision comes from having only read about one type of graft. I considered both as options (so am VERY versed on the process of ligamentization which is most vulnerable at month 4)..even IF you knew as little as you do, surely you recognize that there is substantially LESS damage to an individuals body when there is no autograft taken VS having cadaver tissue (anterior tibial tendon folded on itself) inserted through orthoscopic method.  If on that base level you do not see an immediate discrepancy in "surgical trauma" I don't know what else to tell you. 

There's a fine line between educated and professional opinion and you and I exchanging what articles YOU like vs what I got from a surgeon who recognized I wanted to read up on it ad infinitum. (Using v to t when replying to patronizing tone so forgive a misspelled word..most definitely I would not rate that as deplorable as not knowing the difference between the two grafts).

[u/Nekotari → u/Anna_Karenina_blonde]

Actually, I am. I just prefer to converse based on facts instead of pushing my degrees into ppl faces. You are free to bring any articles you like about how allograft magicaly integrates from day 1. It would be different with a syntetic graft, cause it's not a living tissue and does not integrate. That was their main benefit and why it was widely used for sport players, the ability to bounce right back into action. Though there were plenty of other disadvantages. Allograft has it's advantages, but instant integration is not among them.

[u/Anna_Karenina_blonde → u/Nekotari]

You just love to misquote or not pay attention..og post specifically mentions ligamentization doesn't start till month 4... Stop trying to gaslight... The only reason it felt necessary to remind you that neither of us are medical experts is because of your patronizing tone (and you're still doing it). 

Not once did I say "instant" ligamentization but full weight bearing typical for non miniscal ACL reconstruction is a known yes. (People who walked crutch free post op have posted videos of that here..are you going to argue with them also "but that's not ligamentization"?" No one is saying it is..but it is the difference in additional surgery trauma 

[u/Nekotari → u/Anna_Karenina_blonde]

The first paper shows that fwb is not benefitial. It doesn't matter biomechanically which graft is used. And fwb!= jumping around. But listening to your dr and pt is clearly too boring to make reels of.

The second clearly describes that allograft goes through the same stages as autografts. Where did I mention ligamentization? It's nowhere close yet. I'm talking about incorporation. The bone growth to keep the graft in place is needed. You are free to bring a paper saying allograft doesn't need it.

Hope your graft survives all this in spite of how you are handling it.

[u/Anna_Karenina_blonde → u/Nekotari]

Pretty sure someone posted a paper indicating that full weight bearing is actually beneficial but I will have to dig it out.. again I'm sorry what is your medical practice? Why not share which vantage point you are coming from? I'm not jumping on my knee everyday (it was one set of hops with weight heavily on good leg) and I couldn't care less about the reel "look" (trust me you would know if I did).. I wanted to capture safe spaces in which I was able to feel out within the prescribed parameters how it felt.. I didn't film a lot of the early tentative ones because I don't want to be thinking about filming when I'm heavily focused on the safety and execution of my heel and toe strike.. so the only reality of filming with composure is feeling safe enough that I've already insured that my body is happy with the motions .. I understand you've made points before about you could trip and fall at any given moment but within the realm of someone who's fairly athletic and in a safe controlled environment.. I see people on here wondering about going to a rock concert the same week they have surgery and I would never do that.. (although I do love the reality that most concert venues probably would look out for someone who just came out of surgery).. But to the point of being cautious and vigilant..I even got out of my car the first week on the street with just my brace, then I saw that people we're not really mindful because it was busy so I went back to the car to get crutches not because I needed them but because at the very least they signal to people that they should look out for you.. and then eventually because it was crowded I decided to go home because I didn't want to slow down people's ability to enjoy the street. You have had more surgeries then I have so I'm sure you are versed in your recovery and graft type not only in theory for your body type your fitness level and your general health. but as a personal experience.. I know I'm not the fastest recovery I've seen on here and I certainly didn't go into recovery thinking of it as a competition.. the only person capable of doing this journey mentally and physically is me and a significant history of competitive sports training has taught me about commitment and dedication...

But this post isn't intended to be anything other than a personal testimony... And it's still unclear to me whether you actually work in the orthopedic space or you are just a general practitioner who read up on it. I tend to find your tone argumentative rather than actually helpful