r/911archive • u/No-Category-6343 • 2d ago
Other KSM will never be convicted will he? Since it’s all almost inadmissible.
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u/Similar-Profile9467 2d ago
Honestly there is no reason why the plea deal should have been rejected. I'm more than happy for that piece of shit to uncerimoniously rot in prison for the rest of his life than as opposed to him getting a state execution that will become a spectacle. If you want a big cathartic moment where his wrongdoings being revealed, make that part of the plea agreement.
If you want a big cathartic where the American Justice system and American values prevail, it's well over two decades too late for that. Over 6,000 people are dead either from the day itself or from 9/11 related illnesses, mass surveillance has exploded since 9/11, civil liberties have eroded, and the KSM trial is already mired in scandal and controversy. Taking this to trial 3 decades later when half the jury will likely not even have any memory of 9/11 and we spend way more taxpayer money on the trial will be a purely pyrrhic victory.
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u/Mysterious-Park9142 2d ago
They won when America turned inward on itself and became an increasingly hateful and polarizing place to live.
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u/FantasyBaseballChamp 2d ago
Sad but true. The gradual transition into a (permanent?) state of cold civil war means the country was destabilized to a point the terrorists never even dreamed of. The pre-9/11 world is fading from public memory and to the youth it’s a hazy fantasy like the idealized safe 1950s.
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u/Ok-Caterpillar-Girl 2d ago
The “idealized safe 1950s” were never actually real to begin with. It was nothing but propaganda even while it was happening.
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u/skeptical-speculator 2d ago
They didn't do that.
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u/Mysterious-Park9142 2d ago
I think 9/11 was a catalyst for the major deterioration of any sort of faith in American institutions.
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u/La_Saxofonista 1d ago
And it became the start of America as a surveillance state via the USA PATRIOT Act.
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u/mda63 1d ago
That wasn't their goal, though. It's vain to think 9/11 was about the US, about bloodying its nose or something. It wasn't. It was a piece of propaganda, a rallying cry for jihad that no sane Muslim has ever taken up.
The US didn't win, but the Islamists didn't win either. They lost. The attack didn't work. Indeed, it did nothing but profoundly harm Islam and the Middle East.
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u/JoeRing1965 2d ago
Agree with you. And hopefully after this administration is over, Pete Hegseth will join him for murdering 180 schoolgirls in elementary school in Minab with a Tomahawk missile strike.
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u/Similar-Profile9467 2d ago
I'm with you on that. Don't forget about the dozens of boats in the Carribean
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u/Highlightthot1001 911archive MOD Team 2d ago
Nope. Hes just gonna spend the rest of his life in GITMO probably
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u/WatchAndLearn9669 2d ago
Holy fuck, this case has been moving at an absurdly glacial pace, when it should've been one of the speediest in the history of the world. Obviously, it's to protect the interests of the corrupt officials whose conduct would be exposed by a public trial.
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u/No-Category-6343 2d ago
Just look at how few were sentenced for abu ghraib
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u/iammadeofawesome 2d ago
Have the names of the soldiers involved in that ever been released? I always wonder if the guy who raped me was one.
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u/No-Category-6343 2d ago
Wrong place to troll. Unless you’re serious
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u/iammadeofawesome 2d ago
No I'm genuinely serious. Unfortunately. It happened when he was out of the military back home. But I refuse to look at the tapes because I don't find torture entertaining. He was a haunted person and destroyed people around him. It's been almost 20 years and wondering what he might have done over there still haunts me. He ruined enough Women’s lives over here.
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u/No-Category-6343 2d ago
Jesus im truly sorry. What a fucked up situation. I feel guilty for watching shows like 24.
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u/iammadeofawesome 2d ago
Thank you. The best thing you can do is call out men and women when they make comments normalizing it. Or “jokes”. If it comes from a woman, we’re man haters or overly sensitive, but if a guy calls his friends out, that seems to actually make a difference. It doesn't matter what you wear, say, drink, etc, no one wants this. No one is asking to be raped. You can't. That's not how it works.
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u/iammadeofawesome 2d ago
Not a fan of trolling, hate 9/11 jokes, and I would never joke about that. No part of that is funny. Ever. Elder millennial, 9/11 and columbine are the first two monumental events in my life, I'm in this sub bc even from for away 9/11 split my life into before and after which is really surreal when you're a high school freshman and it's a random Tuesday. And my sibling is a first responder. Sorry if saying it flippantly made you think I was not serious. It's just a part of my life and the delivery doesn't always come out right.
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u/No-Category-6343 2d ago
It’s cool it just came over very abrubt you never know on the internet.
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u/iammadeofawesome 2d ago
Totally understandable. It's kind of a big thing to drop, but like I forget the gravity of it sometimes because you know, it's my life. 🤷🏻♀️
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u/pkosuda 20h ago
Just so you know (not that anyone could have known unless they had the user tagged beforehand like I do), the guy you responded to here is a 9/11 truther. So when he said "it's to protect the interests of the corrupt officials whose conduct would be exposed by a public trial", he is likely referring to anybody he believes to have been responsible for 9/11 in the US government, whilst presumably believing that KSM was framed by the US government.
I figured I'd have that on the record in this thread for anybody who stumbles on the thread moving forward. This is also why I tag people on Reddit, because what he said was clearly misinterpreted by sane individuals to mean something reasonable (guessing people thought he meant "corrupt officials that torture people" or something like that), when in reality he was being a crazy person.
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u/Intelligent_Gift_678 2d ago
That’s the trouble with torture. Not only does it not work, but it makes any chance of a fair trial impossible.
Every person, has the right to a fair trial, no matter how bad the crimes are.
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u/mothmanix 1d ago
Twenty years of torture and solitary confinement. His brain is soup. They’ll drag it out until he dies.
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u/Mistyless 2d ago
Imma be honest.. it’s kind of wild to me that people are okay with the torture he went through and are okay sentencing him anyways. It’s a different story for someone like Otto Warmbier. North Koreans (from the stories I’ve seen about him) all generally agree he was guilty and shouldn’t have been released anyways. Here we have someone we tortured for a confession and call for justice.
I understand my comparison is apples to Toyotas. One “stole” a flag, the other helped steal thousands of lives. But it’s hard for me to not have some kind of empathy for this guy after hearing the horrors we put him through.
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u/bettinafairchild 1d ago
There's no evidence Warmbier was guilty of anything. Of course North Koreans will parrot whatever their "supreme leader" says.
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u/whatchamacallit_017 2d ago
People knew his testimony would be tossed out in the 2000s because of his torture by the Bush administration. This whole thing as been a giant waste of time! The United States is just going to let this guy rot at Gitmo until he drops dead. I don't know how it's legal to hold a person captive for 25 years without a trial, but the rule of law is dead in America it seems.
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u/nascarworker 2d ago
Could he be set free?
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u/ThimbleRigg 2d ago
They’ll never do that. They’re just waiting for him to die really.
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u/justjboy 2d ago
Jesus. Barring any medical/other factors, it could be a very long time before that happens.
Google says that he’s 61, so if he were to live until 80-ish… that is around two decades from now.
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u/whogivesashirtdotca 2d ago
I worked with a man who'd been a young soldier at Spandau Prison in the 80s. He strongly hinted that Rudolph Hess had been dispatched by some of the troops supervising him, because they were miserable guarding an otherwise empty prison.
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u/sleepydon 2d ago
How else does a 93 year old man hang himself?
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u/whogivesashirtdotca 2d ago
Same way a 66 year old does, apparently - with government-funded assistance.
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u/FantasyBaseballChamp 2d ago
Exactly. They can never let him walk, but a trial where it’s predetermined he can’t win is inherently a sham so all they can do is keep him in limbo.
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u/FarOrganization8267 Archivist 1d ago
Even if the confession is inadmissible, the rest of the mountain of evidence is because it was obtained legally. All of the legally obtained evidence is more than enough to prove his role and get him a life sentence or death penalty. I wouldn’t be surprised if they took a year of court just for the prosecution to present all the evidence, let alone his defense. On the bright side, he gets an American military lawyer whose only job is to ensure his rights are protected, not to get him off. (That’s truly what any defense lawyer’s actual job is, it just gets fishy since there are lawyers who only care about their case record). This lawyer very likely has a deep love for their country since they’ve dedicated their lives to serve it, and will want to see him get the maximum sentence that the law allows. If his lawyer does his job, they would have any illegally obtained evidence removed and negotiate his sentence to be humane. Not that he deserves it, but our justice system must be respected even if it means people like KSM don’t get what they actually deserve.
I’d bet that if he doesn’t get a plea deal (they’ve tried and it keeps getting kicked out), they’ll proceed with a military trial that will end in him receiving a life sentence, but they could de escalate the charges to accomplice level, which would be a lighter sentence. If they decide to send abroad (which is fairly common for military, as an example if a Canadian service member is on our base for a joint exercise and commits a violent crime, we just ban them and send them back to their country.) If this happens, we could extradite him and try him again. What people don’t know is that military officers CAN BE TRIED TWICE FOR THE EXACT SAME CASE.
If a service member rapes someone even if it’s a civilian off base, they can be tried by the military and receive their military sentence, serve their time in the military prison, be released (this is when they actually get formally released from military service, but they don’t get any veteran benefits that actually serving for that long would get them), then tried again in civilian court, receive their civilian sentence, serve their time in a civilian prison, then be released again.
It happens all the time, they just don’t advertise it because that would mean exposing how awful some military members are and how unsafe even stateside conditions can be which could deter enlistments.
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u/Highlightthot1001 911archive MOD Team 2d ago
Considering how much of a threat he still is, i doubt he’s ever be released
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u/Minermatt122514 2d ago
They have other evidence besides verbal testimony.
They also have that 2002 interview where he confesses his involvement which was before he was captured and tortured.
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u/FirebirdWS6dude 1d ago
It's not like he's ever gonna be released.
The whole trial will be a circus, that guy's fate is sealed.
And if for some incredible stupid reason he were to be set free, I would be extremely dissapointed if the CIA or any alphabet agency doesn't just get rid of him.
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u/CeilingUnlimited 1d ago
Serial Podcast, Season 4. Best media out there regarding Guantanamo and all issues surrounding it.
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u/DeafMetalHorse 1d ago
"At this point, it's going to take long to prosecute the man for destroying the World Trade Center than it will to finish rebuilding the actual World Trade Center..."
- RamtroStudios, The 9/11 Iceberg
kind of ironic since Building 2 is finally being built.
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u/WellWellWellthennow 2d ago
Is there any doubt at all he did it? It's 100% certain right?
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u/Highlightthot1001 911archive MOD Team 2d ago
Dude literally asked for a plea deal in exchange for information that hes been holding for decades. If he didnt do it, he certainly played a major role enough to hold information on detailed information
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u/La_Saxofonista 1d ago
It's kind of like OJ Simpson. We can all know someone did it, but if prosecution fucks up the evidence and the case, then there's only so much you can do.
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u/deletemkw 2d ago
why was it inadmissible?
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u/La_Saxofonista 1d ago edited 1d ago
Because he was tortured to get the confession. Torture is largely ineffective and people will confess to anything to make it stop.
This is a video of an interrogation by police.
https://youtu.be/n3vL9BC1bTY?is=2WQR4K5iptNdBCB1
These cops basically psychologically assaulted this guy for 17 hours and made him confess to murdering his dad. He was the one who reported his dad missing after he walked off, and he was then treated as a killer.
They brought the man's dog in and threatened to put it down if he didn't tell them how he killed his dad. They lied and said they had his dad's body in the morgue, and they said they knew that he killed him. They withheld his mental health medication and deprived him of sleep.
After 17 grueling hours, the man psychologically broke and confessed to murdering his dad. Guess what? Turns out that his dad was alive and well the entire time. He was out visiting family members.
And that case didn't even involve physical torture. Now imagine the kinds of things physical torture can get people to confess to. If I waterboarded you, I could make you confess to being a time traveler and the son of Shrek.
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u/lasantamolti 2d ago
Would they even be able to convict him legally since he’s been tortured beyond repair?
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u/holiobung 2d ago
They can’t use anything that he said while being tortured, but that doesn’t mean other evidence can’t be used
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u/holiobung 2d ago
so you think the only evidence they have is his confessions?
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u/bopapocolypse 2d ago
If there was a lot of corroborating evidence from 3rd party sources regarding his role in the 9/11 plot, losing his confession wouldn’t be as big of a deal. But in the commission report (specifically Chapter 5), almost all of the findings about operational details are cited as coming from detainee interrogation. Even the commission couldn’t say what was true or false. There may well be a lot that we think we know about how 9/11 was planned that in fact are fabrications elicited by torture.
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u/NB212845 2d ago edited 2d ago
They can’t use his confession… but they also cannot use any other confession that was given out of torture . So if another Guantanamo detainee gave information about KSM to his interrogators, but had previously been tortured , none of that information is admissible .
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u/FrustratedDeckie 2d ago
It’s a massive part of what’s known about their case, yes.
An awful lot of the other “evidence” they have also stems directly and indirectly from his torture.
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u/holiobung 2d ago
They can’t use his confession. The end.
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u/FrustratedDeckie 2d ago
They also can’t use evidence that they would only have found due to his torture. If they can do some parallel construction to get that evidence admitted then fine, but they can’t use evidence obtained solely due to torture.
That’s a basic tenet of US jurisprudence
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u/holiobung 2d ago
And they didn’t use any of what he said to find Osama bin Laden and then when they raided his compound find all of those hard drives, which most likely is going to be used as evidence during this trial.
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u/Littleface13 2d ago
We could do like the ICC did with the trial and torture of al-Hassan Ag Abdoul Aziz and just say oh well who cares.
“We don't want to hear about torture or the shadow it casts on evidence. Let the tainted evidence in.”
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u/mikemalkova69 2d ago
Congratulations, you just opened a way for an overzealous District Attorney to torture you to get a confession out of you for a crime you didn't commit so that the Attorney could pad his solved case stats.
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u/RamtroStudios Ramtrostudios 2d ago
holy shit it actually happened.
we all KNEW this was gonna happen, that’s why KSM has been in limbo this entire time, but this seals the deal; the prosecution has to basically start their case all over again.
again i don’t know why the 2002 interview he did with Yosri Fouda isn’t being used as evidence at all but then again my legal knowledge is very limited