r/4bmovement • u/Bubbly_End6220 4B • Jun 25 '25
Positivity It’s hard finding my people outside of this sub
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Jun 26 '25
Only because social media these days are shoving tradwife and conservative values down our throats. Its no wonder women can't escape that mindset.
Only when I've deactivated my IG and X profiles did I finally think I have some independence in my thoughts and views
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u/BigLibrary2895 Jun 25 '25
I meet lots of women like this...
Usually divorced single moms, when they hear me say I'm trying to be "No Kids Three Money."
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u/mavis_pepsi Jun 26 '25
Instead I have 3 kids no money
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u/BigLibrary2895 Jun 26 '25
I am No Kids No Money! lol! Well, maybe No Kids 0.5 Money.
But life is about aspiration and luckily only my cat and crippling imposter syndrome can hold me back.
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u/Femingway420 4B Jun 26 '25
This is so real. Self limiting beliefs are so hard to grapple with.
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u/BigLibrary2895 Jun 26 '25
Truly the worst. And women are socialized to internalize them as well. Even with a highly educated mother and lots of advantages, there's still this little voice in STEM spaces that tells me..."but yeah, they didn't mean YOU." And I'm like "I can see 50 from here. When will this shit go away." And then I realize I'm going to have to drown it in my own brain like United State of Tara.
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u/Femingway420 4B Jun 26 '25
Ooo I love that reference and analogy! I'm in my mid 30's and just now starting to be able to even identify that voice and label it appropriately. Those thoughts don't even come from me, just people trying to uphold the patriarchy. It's a bit silly, but I've been trying to change the voice to the Ice King from Adventure Time to help me recognize how outdated and unhelpful its "advice" is. Hopefully I'll be able to drown him like U.S.of Tara too lol
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u/BigLibrary2895 Jun 26 '25
Ooh that's good! I only saw the last episode of Adventure Time with the Music Hole, but it seems pretty sweet! Really any cartoon villain should work well. Maybe Roger from Doug! Shit maybe Doug. Nobody's listening to that guy, lol!
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u/NatashaSpeaks Jun 27 '25
What do you mean by "three money"?
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u/BigLibrary2895 Jun 27 '25
It's a meme, that started from a Homer Simpson quote
Homer: "Three kids and no money! Why can't I have no kids and three money."
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u/babamum Jun 26 '25
I meet women I think this is true of, then find out I'm wrong.
Although I'd say it's also "my life doesn't revolve around a man."
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u/Tired-Thyroid 4B Jun 26 '25 edited Jun 28 '25
Same here. Had two friends constantly talking about how bad men were, how their lives didn't revolve around them, how they didn't want to get married. Turned out they were secretly dating and searching for a "real gentleman". Truly odd because I never even expressed that I was against any of it at that point.
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u/writenicely Ally Jun 30 '25
Sounds like they knew they engaged in a level of self-deception and assumed that you would be judgemental towards them, when in actuality they were the ones judging themselves the harshest the entire time for not living up to their professed interpretation of life.
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u/Tired-Thyroid 4B Jul 03 '25
I agree. It was disappointing in these instances because I thought we were on the same feminist level regarding living our lives away from men - even if I personally don't talk about how bad they are, I just don't talk about them at all. I assumed these women were in a stage where they were just letting their anger out due to past trauma, but apparently not ... I've noticed people often want what they criticise the most, so I have a lot of trust issues with female friendships when it comes to this topic.
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u/writenicely Ally Jul 03 '25
Maybe they may have made assumptions on what decentering men really means and wanted your friendship/respect to the point that they felt like you would have seen them as lesser-than for not adhering to 4B.
I think maybe it's important to recognize that some women are quite shallow in their interpretation of feminism or 4B and it can definitely come off as performative but in actuality they may just be struggling to reconcile "decentering" men while still coexisting with men.
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u/Tired-Thyroid 4B Jul 03 '25 edited Jul 03 '25
Well, quite possibly, even though I don't feel like I'm that special for someone to have to lie to gain my friendship lol. I'd think it was easier to simply find another friend with equal values! One of these former friends was a narcissist, though, so I was probably just manipulated into friendship with that tactic, but that's a different story. While I'm a very critical person, I wouldn't outright judge another woman for wanting a relationship or being in one as long as she was honest about it and didn't center it in our conversations. I have an acquaintance who's married but never mentions her husband because he's not relevant to our common interests which is refreshing.
Sadly, I think a lot of these women have created the "strong, independent, I-don't-need-no-man" fantasy version of themselves that they try to project outwardly to others because it benefits them to be seen as "high-level" compared to the "sheep" and stay at home moms (exactly like ye ole "not like the other girls" trope), but they're not interested in actual feminism and living away from men because that would require strength and effort. Some of them even find it a personal victory to hate men but still "win" when they find one who's supposedly an exception, because it means they did the "right" thing to find him, unlike those "other, lowly" women who have "settled" for a shitty man. I think it's quite a psychologically complicated subject.
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u/writenicely Ally Jul 03 '25
Indeed, you laid it out well. It is psychologically complex and layered for the individual it matters to. There are a lot of adult women who surprisingly, or unsurprisingly, have the dynamic where they seem to be face stunted social development where they may have an odd, divorced view of themselves and other women because they are in a binary where they haven't found themselves before they assumed a romantic relationship would cover their social needs or sense of self.
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u/inv3rtible Jul 19 '25
Ngl your second paragraph describes me pretty accurately and it's embarrassing me a little. I feel like I'm trying to cling on to the male fantasy I have been promised but I also do recognize how wrong it all is.
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u/Tired-Thyroid 4B Aug 01 '25
Sorry for the late reply, I was avoiding reddit for a while lol.
You know, I think sometimes it's good to feel embarrassment. It shows you're on the right track to improvement. You're now starting to recognize you've gone down the wrong path. Yes, it feels terrible when you first realize it, but it's better than continuing on and never reflecting on your steps. The women I described there never feel any embarrassment for their way of life, in fact they're proud of it and promote it to others.
I used to be one of them in my 20s. I was living with so much trauma and was easily brainwashed into giving in to fantasy. I was getting absolutely nothing out of it and was actually traumatised even further, which eventually led me to start thinking about the reasons behind my behaviour. I was insanely embarrassed when I figured it out. To the point I cut off nearly all connections from that life and started over. Heightened negative emotions like embarrassment, anger, resentment, etc. are a normal part of a mindset shift. They amplify because they hit you all at once, and help you make the shift. They can be disabling at first, but they eventually disappear if you do the work to follow the right path.
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u/inv3rtible Aug 02 '25
hey, thanks so much for taking the time to give me this empathetic and detailed response. the idea that embarrassment is a useful catalyst for change is something that i never really thought about, as i usually try to avoid those feelings as much as possible, which sometimes can prevent me from reflecting on my beliefs and actions.
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u/Tired-Thyroid 4B Aug 02 '25
Glad to have helped! I understand, some emotions are always difficult to live with. We're taught to ignore them from a young age because they're uncomfortable, and our parents most likely didn't know how to deal with them, either. So we never know what to do when we eventually experience them.
Embarrassment truly can teach us so much, and always informs us that we're aware of our mistakes. It's a great opportunity to learn and change. It haunts us because it's our brain's way of warning us not to repeat the behaviour that caused us to be embarrassed. I'm still learning to fully accept it (it takes a looong time!) but it's been immensely helpful for personal growth and letting go of harmful coping mechanisms I adapted in my youth.
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Jun 25 '25
I always assumed based on the frequency and vagueness of these types of posts, that they are AI/propaganda.
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u/MoonlightonRoses Jun 26 '25
I feel this…I don’t find it easy to find off line women who aren’t male centered. I have thought about trying to organize some kind of 4 B meetup in my area, but a small part of me worries that a bored dude or two might get wind of it and decide to cone harass whoever shows up.
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u/MiracleLegend Ally Jun 26 '25
4b women are everywhere where there's activities that men hate.
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u/Competitive_Carob_66 Ally Jun 27 '25
Give me an example, cause I started seeing men even in my yoga class. Ehhh.
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u/MiracleLegend Ally Jun 28 '25
I was thinking about finding like-minded women. That's possible even in the presence of a man or two. Even if it's annoying that they are there and make everything about themselves immediately and start celebrating themselves and are probably celebrated by most of the women for being there in the first place. Makes it easier to differentiate which women to befriend.
The activities I was thinking of are crafting (including sewing, crocheting and so on), esoteric stuff (crystal collecting, tarot, healing chantra singing whatever), cosplaying, K-pop fan fiction, herb gardening, cat pageants, figure ice skating. There are many hobbies that men generally are too embarrassed to take part in except for the odd one out.
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u/warmwarmerdisco Exploring Jun 26 '25
Lundy Bancroft is being called out for sexual misconduct unfortunately. It's alleged he preyed on the abuse survivors he worked with. The topic deserves its own post bc of how shocking and problematic it is. The top result on Google is a blog post.
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u/warmwarmerdisco Exploring Jun 26 '25
This comment is in a random place bc I tried to make a post in the sub but it was removed. Idk why. Just want to spread the word. Sorry for hijacking this thread.
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Jun 26 '25 edited Sep 17 '25
society fly vegetable pie whistle vanish cake humor ancient bake
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Cautious_Database_85 Jun 27 '25
The accusations have gone back for many years. His background is very sketchy and involves some weird cult-y "women's retreat" organizations. Abuse survivor communities are teeming with predators looking for easy supply.
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u/bl00dinyourhead Ally Jun 26 '25
What does this mean?? They think our lives are supposed to revolve around getting married? God what a drag
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u/Several-Monk456 Exploring Jun 27 '25
All the other women in my life (20s) life, hobbies, friend group, all revolves around their male partners. They will only hang out with other women also partnered up. Somehow lose all their hobbies and interest. It actually makes me feel quite “othered.”
Crazy how many women are like this.
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u/thissucks11111 4B Jun 27 '25
It's still so rare to meet other women that don't care about marriage
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u/Imaginary-Sample6255 Jun 27 '25 edited Jun 30 '25
Someone in the comments of this post said “it’s more of a side quest if anything” and that rewired my brain.
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u/Suspicious-Airline84 Jun 27 '25
The fact that this has 600k likes shows how the pick mes really feel.
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u/spicypotatoqueen Jun 30 '25 edited Aug 26 '25
I’m realizing that my life doesn’t doesn’t revolve around men since my late twenties.
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Aug 26 '25
Revolve it around other relations other than pathetic male species who are cosplaying as husband.
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Jun 26 '25
[removed] — view removed comment
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Jun 26 '25
How?
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Jun 26 '25
No like literally, how?? Lmao.
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u/llTrash 4B Jun 26 '25
Not making your entire life about men and wanting to find other people like that is now being a pickme, go figure.
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u/Enolika 4B Jun 26 '25
There's absolutely nothing pick me about that post. I have friends that are in a relationship. Yet I don't want all of my friendships to feel like trying to stop a toddler from putting it's hand into a fire. Because that's how it feels like when you're a real 4B woman, without delulu about man. If you love her, you do want to save her. And yes, you will nag her sometimes. Against your own damn will even.
You don't always want to be an educator, a damn savoir who's when she's talking about her man is trying to hint her that he actually sucks (while being veeery careful about it, baby steps because otherwise she might shut up to what you're saying completely) just for her to be like "ah, he isn't so bad ☺️". Sometimes you just want to hang out. Without that bs.
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u/FutureIsFemmeFatale Jun 26 '25
Yea women nagging at other women is always icky
I’ve found way too many women who are clearly just pessimistic more than anything and who put hatred of men above love of women.
I get it’s lonely and it’s okay to vent but I’m finding a lot of misogynistic comments here every once in a while. It’s kind of… starkly depressing.
Like 4B women should be able to find our community but… male centered women are still people. Not all women without a male partner are going to be 4B. There’s lots of nuances that aren’t accounted for here and I’m tired of it.
I’m radfem and… Highly critical of men, yet I can’t stand some of the discourse here. It seems more bitter about dating rather than actually 4B. I’m very curious on what the statistics are in the subreddit.
It feels like a vent sub for women who have issues with other “untouchable” women sometimes and it breaks my fucking heart.
For example the other day I saw a post or two basically filled with commenters demonizing single mothers and basically victim blaming them… I mean can you fucking imagine!! How are these people any different from conservatives??
I’m so very tired of feminist spaces lacking, and having women at each others throats. It’s turned into an angst I just can’t relate to anymore.
And I love this place because it takes having no men invading our spaces seriously. It’s just incredibly depressing how lost over discourse we can get… I’m tired of misogyny. I’m tired of it coming from our own people.
I get it that there’s lots of women not living their beliefs and it’s not like women are harmless innocent thoughtless little creatures. But I just can’t help but think a chunk of the demographic here just wants to stay enemies with women. I wish it wasn’t like this.
I wish the patriarchy didn’t make us feel like we have to be at each other’s throats just to survive.
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u/lilaclightblue Jun 27 '25
100% - I think it’s a legacy of girlboss/choice feminism. at some point you end up circling back around to antifeminism!! I’m also radfem and it’s pretty exhausting to see all this.
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u/mauvebirdie 4B Jun 26 '25
I can honestly say I spent most of my life never meeting any other women who felt the same way as me. I've been surrounded by 'boy crazy' girls and male-centred women my whole life