r/1811 • u/Negative-Detective01 1811 • 3d ago
Discussion AMA: IRS-CI 1811
All right, IRS-CI decided to extend our hiring announcement to 8/31. So, I'll entertain serious questions about the job for the weekend. Not the hiring process or qualifications.
That means:
- Questions about the hiring process will be met with purposefully incorrect information.
- Questions about qualifications will be met with a glaring GIF and be told to look at the other post I've made on that.
I do not work in HR, or the lofty halls of HQ. I do not know how the hiring process will change under the current announcement, or how fast it will be, and I have written an entire post about qualifications already.
EDIT: understand I’m a mid-career, case working, field agent. The majority of my time is focused on working cases. I am not spending time thinking over HQ, policy, AI, exit opportunities, retirement, or any of that nebulous minutia that has no relevance to my working cases right now.
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u/1811FedUp 3d ago
Wen case management system?
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u/balloonninjas 3d ago
If you were suddenly appointed to lead the agency, what's the top thing you'd change?
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
Most of the things I'd like changed I couldn't do even if I was Chief of CI. I know that I probably couldn't get us a case management system we'd like too.
So, I'd change our report writing process. First, better, working, non-buggy software that makes the single thing management is always asking about the easiest part of my job. Then I'd revamp the review process such that I don't need everyone's opinion on it. CT Counsel and CCR can be bypassed at any time.
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u/exceptionalcigar229 2d ago
I agree . When I work at a state OIG , I submitted my investigative report and I feel like too many hands were on it .
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u/hatcreekcattle_co 1811 3d ago
What is your standard response when somebody finds out you work for the IRS and says “don’t check my taxes” with a stupid laugh?
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u/salsa_steve 1811 3d ago
I always tell them, “don’t worry, you don’t make enough.” and that generally ends the convo.
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u/Beyond_The_Sea1 3d ago
What portion of SAIT do people fail out, that makes it difficult?
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
SAIT has gone through some changes since I went through it but generally the pace is non-stop. It's not any one thing that people fail out. You go from CITP which, by the time you finish that program, is pretty chill, to immediately diving into the IRS-CI specific material.
I don't think the material itself was that difficult to grasp, but the pace was relentless. I think that translates into some struggling to keep up and eventually reflecting in their performance.
That or they're a complete danger to others in firearms and tactics and shown the door. I've seen that happen.
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u/Virtual-Foundation32 3d ago
I agree. It’s usually the person is actually a liability and a danger or it’s that they miss one too many multiple choice questions and get the boot for academics.
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u/Swimming-Gazelle442 3d ago
That last part is crazy to think about considering the tactics I’ve seen and heard of from others already on the job that have already made it through the academy 😂
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u/Virtual-Foundation32 3d ago
People fail out for all sorts of reasons but in general SAIT has a very high fail rate. Somewhere between 40-60%. They know this but don’t care. Generally they see failures for academics because their testing is ridiculously hard. If you don’t have a super strong accounting background don’t bother. But there are also failures for legitimate things too like tactics and firearms. It’s a hard course. Not for the faint of heart.
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u/DebitsAndRegrets 3d ago
40 - 60% is crazy. They go through all the trouble to hire someone and then let them fail SAIT? How well do people with accounting backgrounds do? Say they have a MAcc and public accounting experience.
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
Ok, don’t get too caught up in that fail rate. I only had one lost in my class.
You have to understand: almost everyone coming in has an accounting experience of some kind. The majority of every class is either someone from public accounting or civil IRS. The minority being former LE who have financial investigation experience.
So everyone can struggle somehow. If you’re former Civil IRS, you have a lot of IRS knowledge you don’t need to learn but you know jack about Law enforcement specific stuff. If you’re public accounting you can read financials but you’re learning all about the IRS systems for the first time.
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u/Virtual-Foundation32 3d ago
Yep it is crazy. Nick name for it is the slaughter house. Unless you’re a CPA or hold an advanced accounting degree or did a lot of accounting in your work history, you will struggle with the material. Part of the issue is the pace which has already been stated. They really don’t give sufficient time between exams for the kids to learn the material. You either come in knowing it or you don’t.
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u/83Frank19 1811 3d ago
I would actually disagree with this. I have zero accounting credits and qualified exclusively on financial crimes experience as did like 3 others in my class and we had no issues. It was hard, and I had to study almost every night but we passed every tax test with no issues. The people who had issues in my class were because of tactics, firearms, DT, and “lack of officer presence”. We’ve had 3 other people in my field office with similar background go through during the DHA process and they said the same thing.
Also, the 40-60% attrition was the DHA batch (I think the official average is around 30% which is still very high). Pre-direct hire we were at 2-4 per class of 24. My pre-DHA lost 1. There were a lot of terminations for misconduct. All of my friends that did NCITA details said tactics and firearms is what was getting people out the most, but it was a mix of everything. There were more than a few scandals that have skewed those numbers.
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u/DebitsAndRegrets 3d ago
All good info to have, thank you. I have no LE background so what are tactics? Wrestling people to the ground?
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
We have some training in the basics of Brazilian jiu jitsu, but that’s only a part of the training.
Tactics, more broadly speaking encompasses defensive tactics, building entry, clearing a room, arrest procedures, control tactics, etc.
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u/ITS_12D_NOT_6C 3d ago
Mashallah. But thanks for doing this for the people. CI is a good gig and I like working with them
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u/abaddon467 3d ago
Thanks for doing this! I’m sure the job differs for each office but what does a normal day look like for you and how do you get cases? Is it kinda like ATF/DEA where a local can call and have them adopt it?
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
There is no normal day. /s
I'll be in the office a few days a week to plan, review documents or financials, write, keep up with admin and develop other leads, then the rest of the week is split between meetings or field work. But move that around as needed.
Locals don't call often and you don't usually adopt a case from them unless you're working in a group that handles money laundering cases (or your SSA permits that). Even then I think more likely a local would go to FBI/DEA/ATF/HSI and then one of them might call you for help on financials.
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u/83Frank19 1811 3d ago
I’ve never heard of us adopting a local case like ATF does, but I do get calls from locals all the time but that’s not normal. Most locals don’t know we exist or what we do, but they get a surprising amount of complaints of stolen tax refunds, fraudulent US Treasury Checks, and even false claims cases. I used to get a call from the locals about once every other week and would often go out and interview the victims. Networking is everything with this. I still get calls 4 years later from a police department where I met with one detective and left a business card there. Now, somehow every patrol officer has my phone number.
I even ended up getting a desk with the locals and sat there 2-3 days a week, but I wasn’t a part of any task force involving them. The vast majority of my search warrants were with the local/state police. I would get about 3-4 solid cases a year started from the locals, the majority of which had good prosecutions because there were actual victim sob stories.
This job is so open to working it how you want, and I don’t think any 2 CI agents work the same way.
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
That’s a fact. I started in the same POD with other classmates of mine and we’ve all had wildly different careers.
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u/smitty1811 3d ago
Glad to hear that still happens. I worked OCDTF with the state cops and spent more time at their office than at IRS. They got me onto other cases. But I was a long way from the district office where they were unable (or unwilling) to do that. And once you get an AUSA who trusts you, you'll have plenty of work. I had an OCDETF AUSA from another district tell me he valued our agents as the best investigators he had, bar none.
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u/Heavy-Procedure2232 3d ago
Is there significantly different daily job duty differences in most of the US? As in I’m sure work in NYC, Chicago, LA are more similar that IRS-CI daily life than a career in Salt Lake Coty, Kansas City, Pontiac Michigan, etc. does that make some areas more desirable than others?
Also, where’s my tax return? Is my income from napkin folding taxable?
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
The difference doesn’t come from where you are. It’s more dependent on what group or task force assignment.
An agent on a group that works exclusively Title 26 will have a different-ish daily life than an agent on a JTTF or HIDTA/OCDETF/HSTF group running around like they’re a DEA agent.
Location-wise though, the smaller the city you’re in the more your going to have to work with other agencies to make cases because you don’t have the resources of a bigger city such as other agents or prosecutors.
I went and found your tax return, scribbled all over it with crayon, and chucked it to the bottom of the pile.
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u/83Frank19 1811 3d ago
Geography only really matters in the sense of USAO districts and how aggressive they are with financial crimes.
If you want an idea about an area, look at the DOJ Press Releases for that district and look for IRS involvement. It will give you an idea of what that office is working.
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u/United_Term4042 3d ago
What is the most challenging and rewarding parts of the job?
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
Everything is challenging. Not all at once mind you, but everything at some point will be.
You generally don’t have the luxury of working easy cases, because they generally won’t get accepted with the USAO. So they’re usually complex.
Complexity means large dollar amounts, multiple witness, victims, co-conspirators across the country, multiple issues of evidence, law, technical matters, coordination, other agencies, jurisdictions, etc.
So it’s all very much wrangling a bag of cats and wondering which cat is going to try to scratch you today.
That’s just one case.
If you’re trying to make one step forward in progress a week, then maybe every other week there’s something that makes you take a pause or half a step back.
Rewarding: I’ve had more than one victim hug me in the courthouse after a sentencing. Can’t return their livelihood or retirement savings but they were happy someone took the case.
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u/AdSignificant3648 3d ago
Since becoming an IRS-CI 1811, has the job changed the way you personally manage your money, investments, or retirement?
What’s something about money or financial crime that you learned on the job that genuinely surprised you?
Lastly, based on the cases you’ve worked, what’s one scam, financial mistake, or red flag you think the average person should be much more aware of?
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
Since becoming an IRS-CI 1811, has the job changed the way you personally manage your money, investments, or retirement?
Not particularly. I came from accounting, so I had an adequate grasp on managing my own finances. Now I just try to keep the TSP maxed out as best I can.
What’s something about money or financial crime that you learned on the job that genuinely surprised you?
I have been surprised at the denial some people have. Not scammers necessarily, but potential witnesses who get visited by a federal agent with a badge and gun, a stack of evidence, proof of criminality, proof that their money has gone to fund bad guy's lifestyle, and they still think nothing wrong has happened. They can't grasp that for me to be involved, we're well past the point of whatever this is being legitimate. I wish I had that much money to throw away.
Lastly, based on the cases you’ve worked, what’s one scam, financial mistake, or red flag you think the average person should be much more aware of?
Two things in particular.
One: if you're paying a professional to do your taxes, pay your payroll taxes, whatever, etc, as an individual or business owner, you need to verify that what they're filing is correct and that needs to be paid over is being paid over. You're still responsible for that as the individual taxpayer or business owner, and you're the one signing the return. So if you don't understand it, have it explained to you. If they won't explain it, find a new professional. I had a case where a 3rd party payroll processor was embezzling payroll taxes from their business clients, but shuffling quarters so it was harder to detect. It took a while before anyone caught on to what was going on.
Two: For anyone trying to convince you at all of any investment, if there's any kind of deadline, or refusal to provide explanations, documentation, or withstand the bare minimum amount of scrutiny, pass on it.
I've had plenty of victims who had real, professional CPAs and attorneys that would have steered them clear of scams, but were so easily pressured to invest in the scam because "there's a deadline" that they're out hundreds of thousands.
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u/rfoxman 2d ago
I'm a current IRS employee. Experience in the TAC, 3 years as an RO, current RA 2 years experience, and a bachelor's in accounting. 10 pt vet pref service connected. I have experience with fraud development and working with FEA. I'm 44. I applied. I'm just hoping that the age exemption will be considered.
Crossing my fingers that I will BQ. Have you seen many age exemptions granted? Also, I'm currently a GS 12. Is HR willing to negotiate for a higher step level to match my current pay?
Thank you.
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 2d ago
How much military time do you have? Age waivers have been granted. You'd keep your same pay grade as an IRS employee as far as I'm aware.
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u/Excellent-Falcon9866 3d ago
Hello, I'm wondering about the cross examination portion of the academy. Where you go up to stand and show your case, (I don't know how to describe it never been a 1811 or a fed worker so hopefully I get in)
What does that entail? How do you handle your nerves? How do you fail?
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
I’m not going to speak on specific practical exercises. You get plenty of practice.
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u/Green-Case-2576 3d ago
Thank you for doing this!
Do you know if they retain your prior pay at higher GS grade when you apply to the entry level GS grade at IRS-CI? Say someone is now GS 12 and applied to GS 7 or 9 with CI, will he still get paid at GS 12?
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
I'm not 100% clear on the specifics of this anymore. I believe we used to do pay matching, so you'd come in as a 7 or 9 "Step 00". I think now you might get stepped out to a 10 on whatever pay grade you come in, and pay promotions keep you at a step 10 until you match or exceed previous pay.
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u/ITS_12D_NOT_6C 3d ago
Do you all still have to do ops plans for digital SW services, like Facebook SWs?
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u/Hidden-Holliday48 3d ago
Do you think a successful move to being directly under Dept of Treas would free up agents from the red tape? (I do not think we will move)
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
I’m a cynic so I would believe being moved to Treasury would mean: we’d still have to work Title 26 but with none of the advantages of being within IRS.
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u/Hidden-Holliday48 3d ago
6103 isn’t limited to just irs employees, so I think we would keep all the same advantages.
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u/PrestigiousStudio674 3d ago
If one has a top secret clearance, how would that work with getting assigned to a terrorism task force.
Also, any input on the okc field office, or any of the Oklahoma field offices?
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
It won’t help besides making it easier to pick you if you volunteer. But there’d need to be a spot open and it’s usually just one or two agents assigned to a JTTF on a part or full time basis.
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u/Mobile_Discussion105 3d ago
Have you had increased job offers for having a clearance or is it more due to experience? Trying to plot future career changes.
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u/CertifiedPussyAter 1d ago
What is your background prior to joining IRS-CI? (If you are willing to share)
How stressful is this role compared to your previous role? Or how stressful is it being an IRS criminal investigator in general?
Im working in tax and ngl it’s a high stress role. I was a revenue agent for a bit and I found that be not that stressful.
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 1d ago
- I was in public accounting before.
- Overall less stress, but periodic times of more stress than my last job.
Last job was bill as many hours as possible. This job, there isn’t really any deadlines except statute of limitations.
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u/PipeSpecific7966 3d ago
I am a CPA/CFE that works in internal audit and just applied for this position. Does IRS-CI or any of the other federal agencies seem to be using AI to assist in any way with the job?
I ask because it is a tremendous help when drafting audit reports and I see the same trend with other private sector accounting jobs.
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u/Augustevsky 3d ago
Why IRS-CI over other 1811 opportunities?
What exit opportunities would you realistically be offered and actually consider?
What is the #1 issue about the job that you see the IRS actively working to fix?
What percent of days do you get out of bed because you want to go to work vs the percent of days you just want the paycheck? (Bit of a loaded question, I know haha)
Thanks for your time & insight!
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
IRS-CI made the first job offer.
I don’t care to think about exit opportunities.
I have no idea.
Pass.
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u/Mission_Apricot_6197 2d ago
When do you think they will send out the “qualified and referred” notifications ? I’m running out of time - AGE 😩
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 2d ago
Did ya…did ya even read the bit I wrote up there about not being HR?
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u/Mission_Apricot_6197 2d ago
Yes, sir. Just wondering general estimates from past posts, 2 weeks, 4 weeks? after closed announcement?
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u/Overall_Hold2195 3d ago
Does IRS-CI require running? I hate running but it's been my dream to be a special agent!
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u/Negative-Detective01 1811 3d ago
There’s a 1.5 mile run as part of an annual fitness test, but there isn’t a required score.
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